You guys still think that if a nuke is used on America it will come by missile.........

NK has 58+ Diesel electric subs that America will have next to no chance of stopping.

The USCG could take out NK diesel electric subs if they even make it to the US.

If not our the CG one of our USN cruisers or destroyers could just hit it when they are topside charging their batteries.




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You guys still think that if a nuke is used on America it will come by missile.........

NK has 58+ Diesel electric subs that America will have next to no chance of stopping.

Cavitation, cavitation, cavitation. End of the diesel/electric deployment....

You guys still think that if a nuke is used on America it will come by missile.........

NK has 58+ Diesel electric subs that America will have next to no chance of stopping.

I was wondering how difficult it would be to put a dirty bomb in a shipping container or a hijacked yacht. That would make sense for a non-state terrorist organization but not for NK. The whole reason they are developing nukes is to make us think twice about invading. Once they actually use them it defeats the whole purpose of owning them.

Reports say they just blew a test nuke

I was wondering how difficult it would be to put a dirty bomb in a shipping container or a hijacked yacht. That would make sense for a non-state terrorist organization but not for NK. The whole reason they are developing nukes is to make us think twice about invading. Once they actually use them it defeats the whole purpose of owning them.

Curious if Honolulu harbor has the same sort of radiation monitors the major mainland ports do to scan incoming traffic.

I was wondering how difficult it would be to put a dirty bomb in a shipping container or a hijacked yacht. That would make sense for a non-state terrorist organization but not for NK. The whole reason they are developing nukes is to make us think twice about invading. Once they actually use them it defeats the whole purpose of owning them.

For more effect what they could do is take a boat/ship of them he coast of California and/or Texas, load a nuke onto a balloon rig using weather balloons or similar, set the bomb with an altimeter and tell it to demonstrate at the highest point ( explode when the lift generated is no longer generated and/or  the ballon pops due to expansion)

This would have the same effect as a high altitude air burst, creating an EMP that would destroy most of America.

The costs, skills and technology are already available, it would not rely on miniaturization technology and it would be near impossible to detect/stop

For more effect what they could do is take a boat/ship of them he coast of California and/or Texas, load a nuke onto a balloon rig using weather balloons or similar, set the bomb with an altimeter and tell it to demonstrate at the highest point ( explode when the lift generated is no longer generated and/or  the ballon pops due to expansion)

This would have the same effect as a high altitude air burst, creating an EMP that would destroy most of America.

The costs, skills and technology are already available, it would not rely on miniaturization technology and it would be near impossible to detect/stop

...
Sounds like an unpublished Tom Clancy-Jack Ryan novel to me.

...
Sounds like an unpublished Tom Clancy-Jack Ryan novel to me.

"In 2004, two Russian generals, both EMP experts, warned the EMP Commission that the design for Russia’s super-EMP warhead, capable of generating high intensity EMP fields of 200,000 volts per meter, was “accidentally” transferred to North Korea, and that due to “brain drain,” Russian scientists were in North Korea, helping with their missile and nuclear weapon programs. South Korean military intelligence told their press that Russian scientists are in North Korea helping develop an EMP nuclear weapon. In 2013, a Chinese military commentator stated North Korea has super-EMP nuclear weapons."

"For instance, North Korea could make an EMP attack against the United States by launching a short-range missile off a freighter or submarine or by lofting a warhead to 30 kilometers burst height by balloon. While such lower-altitude EMP attacks would not cover the whole US mainland, as would an attack at higher-altitude (300 kilometers), even a balloon-lofted warhead detonated at 30 kilometers altitude could blackout the Eastern Grid that supports most of the population and generates 75 percent of US electricity."

"Thus, even if North Korea only has primitive, low-yield nuclear weapons, and if other states or terrorists acquire one or a few such weapons as well as the capability to detonate them at an altitude of 30 kilometers or higher over the United States. As, the EMP Commission warned over a decade ago in its 2004 Report, “the damage level could be sufficient to be catastrophic to the Nation, and our current vulnerability invites attack.” "


Even the best fiction is based on fact,

http://www.38north.org/2017/06/wgraham060217/

Again NK doesn't need to use a missile to launch nukes (f on NK)  a diesel electric submarine with a nuke and ballon launch system or a short range surface fired missile would do the same if not better job. Even if we detected the launch In time we would not have a significant chance or reacting.

Curious if Honolulu harbor has the same sort of radiation monitors the major mainland ports do to scan incoming traffic.

I know at least one that has (or had them). I did the design of the entry and exit to accommodate the equipment. Pretty interesting stuff. This was over 10 years ago, so maybe they went with different technology.


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Again NK doesn't need to use a missile to launch nukes (f on NK)  a diesel electric submarine with a nuke and ballon launch system or a short range surface fired missile would do the same if not better job. Even if we detected the launch In time we would not have a significant chance or reacting.

Take a look at this then you'll understand that the detection of the mini-sub is, for a better word, elementary. Extremely easy to detect by surface, sub-surface, airborne deployed sono-bouys or submarine detection grids.......
As for the balloons, you have a point.....

I read an analysis on this. And the so called expert said that the technology needed to shoot down a missile is much more sophisticated than all the space, satellite and weapon technology combined. And it is just in its infancy. The fact is that we have missed as many test missiles as we have hit them. With that in mind the expert said if we were to attempt to hit the missile and we miss it not only would be an embarrassment, but it would also send an unintentional message to NK and the the rest of our enemies that we are full of hot air and our missile defense system does not work. This would embolden NK to not only continue but they will probably stop at nothing to get to the nuclear power country status that seems to be their goal. He said some other things which I don't remember at this time but that was the gist of his comments.

This is not my opinion I am just repeating what I remember from the analysis.

I agree that a miss would make him think we weren't as strong as we might claim. I don't see this situation ending peacefully. If he keeps launching "test" missiles over our allies, sooner or later someone isn't going to take it any longer.

If I had a hundred things to be concerned or worry about, a NK missile strike on Hawaii would be at the bottom of the list.

Take a look at this then you'll understand that the detection of the mini-sub is, for a better word, elementary. Extremely easy to detect by surface, sub-surface, airborne deployed sono-bouys or submarine detection grids.......
As for the balloons, you have a point.....

I'm curious if I am misunderstanding something.  Like the video says, cavitation is dependent on velocity of the blades/sub. Keep the blades slow enough, and there is no cavitation, right? I thought a sub will normally stay below that velocity except in an emergency situation. I was pretty sure this has been done since WWII.

 I think it was in 2014 or 2015 that a Swedish Gotland class sub evaded the entire Reagan battle group and theoretically sunk the carrier before disappearing again during exercises. My understanding was that the only realistic way to get one of those subs is when it is recharging its batteries or maybe after its fired something.

Whether NK has subs of that quality is suspect, but theoretical ability is there for a nearly silent sub.

I'm curious if I am misunderstanding something.  Like the video says, cavitation is dependent on velocity of the blades/sub. Keep the blades slow enough, and there is no cavitation, right? I thought a sub will normally stay below that velocity except in an emergency situation. I was pretty sure this has been done since WWII.

 I think it was in 2014 or 2015 that a Swedish Gotland class sub evaded the entire Reagan battle group and theoretically sunk the carrier before disappearing again during exercises. My understanding was that the only realistic way to get one of those subs is when it is recharging its batteries or maybe after its fired something.

Whether NK has subs of that quality is suspect, but theoretical ability is there for a nearly silent sub.

You are correct. Great example. The Stirling AIP propulsion is a real marvel and is unbelievably quiet. Most modern day subs have two counter- rotating screws for noise cancellation due to cavitation. This allows them to speed up considerably compared to the older, single screw boats. However it's not just cavitation. Drop a wrench when someone is listening,  you've been caught. As for running silent, the submariner service says "there's submarines and there's targets". I don't think NK has the same level of technology or silent running as the Swedish boat. If they are coming me thinks we'll detect and hopefully grow a set of balls and destroy.

You are correct. Great example. The Stirling AIP propulsion is a real marvel and is unbelievably quiet. Most modern day subs have two counter- rotating screws for noise cancellation due to cavitation. This allows them to speed up considerably compared to the older, single screw boats. However it's not just cavitation. Drop a wrench when someone is listening,  you've been caught. As for running silent, the submariner service says "there's submarines and there's targets". I don't think NK has the same level of technology or silent running as the Swedish boat. If they are coming me thinks we'll detect and hopefully grow a set of balls and destroy.

Cool, thanks. I always wondered about in The Hunt for Red October if they would really be able to hear singing or things like a wrench dropping. Sounds like it would possible. I'm curious to see how a twin prop works in terms of fluid dynamics, but I guess that is all classified stuff.

I'm curious to see how a twin prop works in terms of fluid dynamics, but I guess that is all classified stuff.

Maybe some small boats have a twin prop setup?

I have just two outboards, but have read about some inboard-outboard (stern drive?) setups having dual props on them.  Never looked for one to see if the props are counter rotating.

You are correct. Great example. The Stirling AIP propulsion is a real marvel and is unbelievably quiet. Most modern day subs have two counter- rotating screws for noise cancellation due to cavitation. This allows them to speed up considerably compared to the older, single screw boats. However it's not just cavitation. Drop a wrench when someone is listening,  you've been caught. As for running silent, the submariner service says "there's submarines and there's targets". I don't think NK has the same level of technology or silent running as the Swedish boat. If they are coming me thinks we'll detect and hopefully grow a set of balls and destroy.

Must make a Correction to my above statement. Been awhile since my sub days and seems like CRS creeps into my head once in a while.
Actually submarines did employ twin counter rotating screws quite some time ago, the idea being that they rotate opposite of each other it would cancel cavitation noise but it's quite the opposite. They actually produce more noise. Solutions have been two very precision screws far enough away from each other, should lower or at least retain a low cavitation at higher RPM. The Russians have employed this in some of their subs as have other navies. Most screws nowadays encorporate ubeliveably prescision screws with optimum pitch and shape as well as razor sharp leading and trailing edges. To protect these screws most subs have a shroud around the screws and probably assist in cavitation noise. If you look at he new Virginia class fast attack boats they employ a reverse shroud designed to permit max flow in with a thinner, more concentrated propulsion output.
NK could employ this on their mini subs but I still have very serious doubts about their silent running abilities. In my day Ruskie subs were very noisy and the U.S. Navy was so far advanced in their detection and silent running technologies that we could actually tell which sub it was, class wise, we were listening to. One of the boats I served on (USS PINTADO) literally tailed a ruskie nuke  with only 100 yards separation their aft to our bow. After matching them turn for turn, we pulled up along along side of them at about 500' and yelled "boom boom" in Russian over the transmit transducer then pulled a hard turn to port and disappeared before they knew what happened. Oh well no more sea stories 😜😀⚓️

One of the boats I served on (USS PINTADO) literally tailed a ruskie nuke  with only 100 yards separation their aft to our bow. After matching them turn for turn, we pulled up along along side of them at about 500' and yelled "boom boom" in Russian over the transmit transducer then pulled a hard turn to pose and disappeared before they knew what happened. Oh well no more sea stories 😜😀⚓️

That. is. awesome.