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Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt (Read 8970 times)

Inspector

Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« on: March 20, 2017, 11:59:37 AM »
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SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

K30l4

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2017, 12:50:55 PM »
Corruption in Hawaii?
No Can...

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

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Heavies

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2017, 06:33:28 PM »
LOL!  So who is doing anything about it?  Hahahh  Not the voters, that's for sure!


I am sitting here waiting for the effects of the idiot's lawsuit on the economy, safety, and security of this city and state, and anxiously waiting to see if that will FINNALLY WAKE PEOPLE UP!

However, I will not be surprised if nothing happens, except blaming republicans, and lamenting about how they ruin Hawaii...  (even though there are NO republicans in charge here AT ALL)
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Jl808

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2017, 09:51:52 PM »
Hmmmmmmmm.....   ??? ??? ???

I followed the link from the Civil Beat article to the actual Harvard Study.   

Unlike what the Civil Beat article says, the Harvard study lists Hawaii as one of the "Least corrupt" states...

http:// ethics.harvard.edu/blog/measuring-illegal-and-legal-corruption-american-states-some-results-safra

Did Nick Grube of Civil Beat make a mistake or am I mistaken in how I read the Harvard study findings?
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mrgaf

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2017, 09:52:24 PM »
Nah, not here in paradise! :crazy: :rofl:
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To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

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mrgaf

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2017, 09:54:13 PM »
Quote from: Jl808 on March 20, 2017, 09:51:52 PM
Hmmmmmmmm.....   ??? ??? ???

I followed the link from the Civil Beat article to the actual Harvard Study.   

Unlike what the Civil Beat article says, the Harvard study lists Hawaii as one of the "Least corrupt" states...

http://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/measuring-illegal-and-legal-corruption-american-states-some-results-safra

Did Nick Grube of Civil Beat make a mistake or am I mistaken in how I read the Harvard study findings?

Harvard? HAH that place is in the center of the demoncrat liberal swamp.....
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To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

Jl808

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2017, 09:59:00 PM »
I don't care much for Harvard or the other progressive Ivy league schools... but what the heck?

How can Nick Grube of Civil Beat be reporting something quite opposite from the source he cites?   Did I make a mistake in reading the Harvard findings?

Even the temperature / color maps on the Civil Beat site looks different from the one on the Harvard link.
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I think, therefore I am armed.
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The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Heavies

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2017, 10:16:20 PM »
Quote from: Jl808 on March 20, 2017, 09:59:00 PM
I don't care much for Harvard or the other progressive Ivy league schools... but what the heck?

How can Nick Grube of Civil Beat be reporting something quite opposite from the source he cites?   Did I make a mistake in reading the Harvard findings?

Even the temperature / color maps on the Civil Beat site looks different from the one on the Harvard link.

They are saying that the executive and legislative branches are considered corrupt.

Quote
The survey found that reporters believed that both types of corruption — legal and illegal — were “very common” in the executive and legislative branches.

The judicial branch, on the other hand, fared well with the perceived level of corruption as being “slightly common.”
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Jl808

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2017, 12:54:24 AM »
Here's where I'm getting confused. 

#1) Civil beat image: Illegal Corruption Legislative


#2) Linked source: Illegal Corruption Legislative


#3) Linked Source: Legal Corruption Legislative


#4) Linked Source: Summary Table


Not that I don't believe him... But the Civil Beat article (#1) and the cited sources (#2, #3, #4) don't seem to match up. :confused:
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I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2017, 01:08:30 AM »
Quote from: Jl808 on March 21, 2017, 12:54:24 AM
Here's where I'm getting confused. 

Not that I don't believe him... But the Civil Beat article (#1) and the cited sources (#2, #3, #4) don't seem to match up. :confused:

You're confused because you keep calling this a "study."  That's not correct.  It's a survey, and a very subjective one.

Quote
That line comes directly from newly released results from a “Corruption in America Survey” of more than 250 reporters from across the country, many of whom cover state government and politics.

(Full disclosure: I was one of the reporters who participated in the survey.)

250 Reporters responded, and we all know how well journalists have been doing lately assessing politics in the US.   :crazy:

If it were a study, it would be based on actual facts, such as criminal cases, convictions, law suits, and so on.  We all know, when the politicians "own" the law enforcement leadership in their jurisdictions, it's very unlikely those politicians will be caught and convicted.  That makes any study limited in its accuracy and may lead to inconclusive or incorrect results.

Subjective opinions versus objective research creates confusing results.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
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Inspector

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2017, 04:30:57 AM »
Quote from: Jl808 on March 20, 2017, 09:51:52 PM
Hmmmmmmmm.....   ??? ??? ???

I followed the link from the Civil Beat article to the actual Harvard Study.   

Unlike what the Civil Beat article says, the Harvard study lists Hawaii as one of the "Least corrupt" states...

http:// ethics.harvard.edu/blog/measuring-illegal-and-legal-corruption-american-states-some-results-safra

Did Nick Grube of Civil Beat make a mistake or am I mistaken in how I read the Harvard study findings?
Good catch!!!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Jl808

Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2017, 07:02:42 AM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on March 21, 2017, 01:08:30 AM
You're confused because you keep calling this a "study."  That's not correct.  It's a survey, and a very subjective one.

250 Reporters responded, and we all know how well journalists have been doing lately assessing politics in the US.   :crazy:

If it were a study, it would be based on actual facts, such as criminal cases, convictions, law suits, and so on.  We all know, when the politicians "own" the law enforcement leadership in their jurisdictions, it's very unlikely those politicians will be caught and convicted.  That makes any study limited in its accuracy and may lead to inconclusive or incorrect results.

Subjective opinions versus objective research creates confusing results.

"Study" or "survey" -- my point is that the CB article and the survey it cites do not match up.

Pic #1 from the CB article portrays Hawaii as though it is the most corrupt of all the states ("Illegal Corruption Legislative" category).

Pic #2 from the cited source seems to contradict this. Showing Hawaii as one of the cleaner states ("Illegal Corruption Legislative" category).

Pic #3 from the cited source shows Hawaii as being more corrupt in the "Legal Corruption Legislative" category, but clearly not the most corrupt as compared to some of the other states.

Pic #4 from the cited source lists Hawaii as one of the least corrupt states in the "Illegal Corruption" Category.

So, where did CB get Pic 1 and his conclusions from?  Was the Pic 1 graphic faked?  #fakenews
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 07:10:30 AM by Jl808 »
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I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

punaperson

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2017, 07:08:37 AM »
Quote from: Jl808 on March 21, 2017, 07:02:42 AM
"Study" or "survey" -- my point is that the CB article and the survey it cites do not match up.
AKA "fake news"?
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Heavies

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2017, 12:56:55 PM »
Huuum. See it, but the gist of the article and the survey results do jive..

The graphic does seem to be misleading.
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Rocky

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2017, 05:46:10 PM »
Quote from: Heavies on March 20, 2017, 06:33:28 PM
LOL!  So who is doing anything about it?  Hahahh  Not the voters, that's for sure!


I am sitting here waiting for the effects of the idiot's lawsuit on the economy, safety, and security of this city and state, and anxiously waiting to see if that will FINNALLY WAKE PEOPLE UP!

However, I will not be surprised if nothing happens, except blaming republicans, and lamenting about how they ruin Hawaii...  (even though there are NO republicans in charge here AT ALL)

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=26992.0
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hvybarrels

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2017, 09:03:55 PM »
This would be an example of Legal Corruption. Biochemical company lobbying group pays off committee chair to kill a bill using perfectly legal but extremely shady means, and he only gets a slap on the wrist. You would have to prove the "donation" influenced him to make it a crime and therefore fall into the Illegal Corruption category.

http://www.civilbeat.org/2017/03/mckelvey-booted-from-chairmanship-in-rare-mid-session-shake-up/

The Harvard study also points out:

Unfortunately, in some states (Arkansas, Hawaii, Idaho, Massachusetts, Montana, North Dakota, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and South Dakota) only a small number of reporters responded to our survey. Hence while interpreting the results from these states we should be cautious.
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Stop blaming lazy people. We didn’t do anything.

hvybarrels

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2017, 09:05:18 PM »
Judging by what I've seen there's a very strong Old Boy network here that thrives on older voter senility and young voter apathy.
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Stop blaming lazy people. We didn’t do anything.

whynow?

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2017, 09:33:52 PM »
Quote from: hvybarrels on March 22, 2017, 09:05:18 PM
Judging by what I've seen there's a very strong Old Boy network here that thrives on older voter senility and young voter apathy.
You probably are correct in that point.  Also in a how you figga moment, why is HI stuck with the same license plate design year after year?  Why no alternative plates displaying a blue sea with the sun or something showing our green mountains?   Something is wrong with a state that dictates only one plate design.   Before HI had different plate designs after so many years but proportionately as the state came more liberal, they stick with one crappy design with no choice of a better design.   Heard one time that HPD said they like the design since it's easier to see and keep an eye on us, but why have one org. dictate the rules?   
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punaperson

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2017, 05:59:42 AM »
Quote from: whynow? on March 22, 2017, 09:33:52 PM
...why have one org. dictate the rules?
You answered your own (rhetorical) question with your choice of words.
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whynow?

Re: Survey Says Hawaii is Corrupt
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2017, 01:17:06 PM »
Quote from: punaperson on March 23, 2017, 05:59:42 AM
You answered your own (rhetorical) question with your choice of words.
I knew the answer but put it in a question for the few here that don't believe it.   
The state views HPD (Honolulu) as the de facto state law enforcement authority and relies on their policies to interpret (not enforce) the laws.   I've said it before, the only way to degrade the political influence of HPD is by creating another county on Oahu.  People in leeward, central and windward Oahu need to create another county with  it's own mayor, council, police and other emergency services.  Can, no can?  I say can.   Unless this action is taken nothing changes on this island or even statewide.   As DJT said, what the hell have you got to lose. 
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