1) I'll take your word for it.  I wasn't around then to know first hand. . .  [kidding]
2) That was my general understanding of the "big picture" and I can see your point about the recent (last 100 years) stuff.  That's kind of my point of this thread is that mostly know the gist of things, but not really the finer details. 
3) Understood. And I wasn't trying to poke holes or put what you said up to the light for finer inspection.  Was actually taking what you said as pretty much from a "well informed person" perspective.  I was just saying that I understood, which admittedly is usually bits and pieces of things and many times I've found that they aren't well connected.  That's why I mentioned that I often get the gist of what started conflicts, but also lost (or forgot) much of the details of why, what made it worse, etc.

Thanks for understanding. I know I didn't do a very good job of explaining this. DOH!!! I PMed you a link of a website that I think explains better the Nazi/Muslim connection and the recent (Since the 1920's or so) uprising of hatred of Jews in the Arab/Sharia Muslim world. The most interesting parts for me are the sections near the end which explains how the Nazis and Extremist Muslims were close allies during WWII. And the changing of the country of Persia's name to Iran due to the Nazi influence is interesting. Just some things about WWII that I found interesting since it does not usually play into the mainstream history.

I think the reason for the start of WWI is probably the most convoluted amongst all the recent modern history of war.

Thanks for understanding. I know I didn't do a very good job of explaining this. DOH!!! I PMed you a link of a website that I think explains better the Nazi/Muslim connection and the recent (Since the 1920's or so) uprising of hatred of Jews in the Arab/Sharia Muslim world. The most interesting parts for me are the sections near the end which explains how the Nazis and Extremist Muslims were close allies during WWII. And the changing of the country of Persia's name to Iran due to the Nazi influence is interesting. Just some things about WWII that I found interesting since it does not usually play into the mainstream history.

I think the reason for the start of WWI is probably the most convoluted amongst all the recent modern history of war.

When I started reading up about the start of WWII, that was very convoluted in many ways in that many parties entered the fray at different points. 

I do recall the Persia/Iran thing somewhat.  I used to work with a guy from Syria and we'd have a bunch of entertaining conversations in the break room about Muslim extremism.  Mind you this was in the 1997-2004 timeframe, so 9/11 was right in there.  Another of coworkers was quite religious and stubborn and he would join in the conversation.  Now THAT was always entertaining!  Wish I had listened more about the conversation then, but I was just out of college and the conversations were more on the level of learning about a culture that was so alien to me.  One lasting point from those conversations that sticks with me to this day is "that you can't reason with an unreasonable person".  Basically you can't apply the logic of your rational thought to people who come from vastly different backgrounds.  Where poverty makes the masses ripe for propaganda and where kids are conditioned at a young age to hate, kill [insert whatever group], etc. 

When I started reading up about the start of WWII, that was very convoluted in many ways in that many parties entered the fray at different points. 

I do recall the Persia/Iran thing somewhat.  I used to work with a guy from Syria and we'd have a bunch of entertaining conversations in the break room about Muslim extremism.  Mind you this was in the 1997-2004 timeframe, so 9/11 was right in there.  Another of coworkers was quite religious and stubborn and he would join in the conversation.  Now THAT was always entertaining!  Wish I had listened more about the conversation then, but I was just out of college and the conversations were more on the level of learning about a culture that was so alien to me.  One lasting point from those conversations that sticks with me to this day is "that you can't reason with an unreasonable person".  Basically you can't apply the logic of your rational thought to people who come from vastly different backgrounds.  Where poverty makes the masses ripe for propaganda and where kids are conditioned at a young age to hate, kill [insert whatever group], etc.

LOL I know exactly what you mean. During that same period I worked with a guy who was Egyptian. A very smart and nice guy and very good at what he did. Even though he had a thick Egyptian accent, he was as much American as anyone I know. His beliefs were pretty much mainstream America if there is something like that. But he had a way of looking at homosexuals that I will never forget. I am going to try and put it politely here so I don't offend anyone and use bad words. But I need to get the point across. Basically his belief was if you were the "receiver" with another man you were homosexual. But if you were the "giver" with another man you were not homosexual. 

Makes me sick to think of those children who are taught to hate. Even to the extreme of becoming a suicide bomber. 

LOL I know exactly what you mean. During that same period I worked with a guy who was Egyptian. A very smart and nice guy and very good at what he did. Even though he had a thick Egyptian accent, he was as much American as anyone I know. His beliefs were pretty much mainstream America if there is something like that. But he had a way of looking at homosexuals that I will never forget. I am going to try and put it politely here so I don't offend anyone and use bad words. But I need to get the point across. Basically his belief was if you were the "receiver" with another man you were homosexual. But if you were the "giver" with another man you were not homosexual. 

Makes me sick to think of those children who are taught to hate. Even to the extreme of becoming a suicide bomber. 

Age old joke I heard in college:  "No, I'm not gay.  But my boyfriend is!"

LOL I know exactly what you mean. During that same period I worked with a guy who was Egyptian. A very smart and nice guy and very good at what he did. Even though he had a thick Egyptian accent, he was as much American as anyone I know. His beliefs were pretty much mainstream America if there is something like that. But he had a way of looking at homosexuals that I will never forget. I am going to try and put it politely here so I don't offend anyone and use bad words. But I need to get the point across. Basically his belief was if you were the "receiver" with another man you were homosexual. But if you were the "giver" with another man you were not homosexual. 

Makes me sick to think of those children who are taught to hate. Even to the extreme of becoming a suicide bomber. 

Age old joke I heard in college:  "No, I'm not gay.  But my boyfriend is!"

 

I was in an elevator with a good friend after a night of heavy drinking.  Well, my GF's friend was with us and he is a flaming gay.  Anyways, out of the blue my buddy looks at my GF's friend and says "are you a pitcher or catcher?"  If I had been taking a sip of a drink at that moment, EVERYONE would've gotten sprayed!!! 

Anyways, history of major wars. . .   

Derailed my own topic. . . 

Anyways, history of major wars. . .   

Derailed my own topic. . . 

Does the discussion of the names of musical groups Franz Ferdinand and the Foo Fighters keep us on topic?

Does the discussion of the names of musical groups Franz Ferdinand and the Foo Fighters keep us on topic?

Had to google Franz Ferdinand. . . 

Since we were talking about WWII, what is your take/opinion on the North Africa aspect?  How it developed or "went there".  So many aspects of WWII that isn't seemingly popularized. 

Had to google Franz Ferdinand. . . 

Since we were talking about WWII, what is your take/opinion on the North Africa aspect?  How it developed or "went there".  So many aspects of WWII that isn't seemingly popularized.

What time period do you want to discuss. There are so many aspects to the African aspect of WWII that I think you need to specify the time period. We can discuss the last year or so until the Allies finally beat the Afrika Corps? Or we can go back 5-10 years. What I will say is that the air war, far superior numbers of tanks and supplies  and the lack of crucial supplies on the German side was basically the real reasons we won the battle for El Alamein. Whether the lack of supplies was due to Hitler's decision to push on without supplies or just a mistake because Rommel was sick at that time and not in charge at the time and a mistake was made. But I don't think Monte was that great a leader. I think he inherited the leadership role at just the right time. Personally, I think the air support does not get the credit it deserves for the final battle and the eventual win. But again, my opinion. If you want to go back further the war was really over oil. But that is not like it is now..... 

What time period do you want to discuss. There are so many aspects to the African aspect of WWII that I think you need to specify the time period. We can discuss the last year or so until the Allies finally beat the Afrika Corps? Or we can go back 5-10 years. What I will say is that the air war, far superior numbers of tanks and supplies  and the lack of crucial supplies on the German side was basically the real reasons we won the battle for El Alamein. Whether the lack of supplies was due to Hitler's decision to push on without supplies or just a mistake because Rommel was sick at that time and not in charge at the time and a mistake was made. But I don't think Monte was that great a leader. I think he inherited the leadership role at just the right time. Personally, I think the air support does not get the credit it deserves for the final battle and the eventual win. But again, my opinion. If you want to go back further the war was really over oil. But that is not like it is now..... 

Time period?  Beginning, middle, end. . . 

Ok.  Let's start at the beginning.  What "started" things in the African region?  Generally speaking.  Also in relation to the bigger WWII picture. 

As in Team 1 and Team 2 were at it in 10:00 mins into the game in Germany.  Then Team 2 expanded with Team 2a into Africa at 15:00 mins into the game and engaged Team 3.  Team 2a and Team 3a was because Team 2a wanted gold from XXX area and Team 3a didn't want them there.  Something like that. 

Time period?  Beginning, middle, end. . . 

Ok.  Let's start at the beginning.  What "started" things in the African region?  Generally speaking.  Also in relation to the bigger WWII picture. 

As in Team 1 and Team 2 were at it in 10:00 mins into the game in Germany.  Then Team 2 expanded with Team 2a into Africa at 15:00 mins into the game and engaged Team 3.  Team 2a and Team 3a was because Team 2a wanted gold from XXX area and Team 3a didn't want them there.  Something like that.

I have type this out 3 times so far and lost each post. This is the last time I try. I am not well versed in the ground war like I am about the air war. So forgive me if I leave out a lot of details. Readers Digest version.

Italy had a colony in Somaliland. They invaded Ethiopia in 1935. Egypt invited Britain to post troops in their country because it was obvious that oil was probably the aspiration for the invasion. Italy had a large but ineffective navy in the Mediterranean. Still they were a threat to Britain's supply of oil from Egypt. Italy entered the war on Germany's side in 1940. They declared war on Britain. The fighting started between Britain and Italy in west Africa. The Italians had overwhelming numbers in the sea and the air. But again, their navy and Air Force was old and obsolete and pilots were not well trained. The Italians invaded Egypt and the British took a beating even though they kicked the Italians navy's ass. The Italian Air Force was not doing well, either. The British fought back and sent in reinforcements and took back Egypt. That is when Hitler decided to help Italy. Now we are up to where the stories you know about WWII in west and North Africa starts in 1940.

Did you ever watch the Rat Patrol? This was one of my favorite TV shows when I was a kid.

You left out the most important reason for the Africa campaign.  If we hadn't fought in Tripoli, the Marine Corp Hymn may have never been finished!

 

I have type this out 3 times so far and lost each post. This is the last time I try. I am not well versed in the ground war like I am about the air war. So forgive me if I leave out a lot of details. Readers Digest version.

Italy had a colony in Somaliland. They invaded Ethiopia in 1935. Egypt invited Britain to post troops in their country because it was obvious that oil was probably the aspiration for the invasion. Italy had a large but ineffective navy in the Mediterranean. Still they were a threat to Britain's supply of oil from Egypt. Italy entered the war on Germany's side in 1940. They declared war on Britain. The fighting started between Britain and Italy in west Africa. The Italians had overwhelming numbers in the sea and the air. But again, their navy and Air Force was old and obsolete and pilots were not well trained. The Italians invaded Egypt and the British took a beating even though they kicked the Italians navy's ass. The Italian Air Force was not doing well, either. The British fought back and sent in reinforcements and took back Egypt. That is when Hitler decided to help Italy. Now we are up to where the stories you know about WWII in west and North Africa starts in 1940.

Did you ever watch the Rat Patrol? This was one of my favorite TV shows when I was a kid.

Thanks!

This is definitely a part of WWII that I've always been interested in for some reason.  I recall watching Saving Private Ryan and when Sgt Horvath (sp?) had those tins of dirt from all over. 

Thanks!

This is definitely a part of WWII that I've always been interested in for some reason.  I recall watching Saving Private Ryan and when Sgt Horvath (sp?) had those tins of dirt from all over.

For me, the most interesting part of this aspect of WWII is the strategies and tactics used by Rommel. Basically, if my memory is correct, he used the same pincer move over and over again and kept kicking Britain's ass. Of course it didn't help that Germany had two great tanks with their Tiger Tank and Panzer Tanks. Both were far superior to the Sherman Tank that the U.S. was providing.

Also, what I found interesting is that Britain's leaders/generals assigned to lead the fighting against the Afrika Corp were pretty pathetic. There were quite a few assigned to lead the fight in North Africa. A new one after each failure if my memory serves me correctly. Even ole Monte who is credited with defeating Rommel was pretty lame. He inherited the leadership role just at the right time when the U.S. provided superior number of almost ineffective Sherman tanks and the German's supply lines were stretched too thin. Combined with the air superiority that Britain finally attained, Rommel really didn't stand a chance. And it didn't help that Rommel was in Germany because he was very sick at that time and the Afrika Corp was losing ground when he was sent back to the front line. By that time it was really too late.

Of course the story doesn't necessarily end there. After Rommel went back to Germany after his defeat he was assigned to defend Germany against the U.S. invasion. He was a brilliant tactician that when allowed to do his thing was terrific. When handcuffed by Hitler, he was ineffective. I'll stop there and let you Google the rest if this peaks your interest. Rommel's story is as interesting as any aspect of WWII. 

Do you have any recommendations on a good book on Rommel, Inspector?

Do you have any recommendations on a good book on Rommel, Inspector?

JL,

You have to understand, this is a childhood obsession I have. I have a hard enough time recalling what I am typing here. There is no way I am going to remember what books I read back then. This is why I am telling you this is from my failing memory. Sorry.

So any inaccuracies on my part need to be corrected because I found over the years that certain facts run into stories and combined to become new history. In other words I find I regurgitate incorrect facts that seem like I just read yesterday.

Haha no problem. I am just interested in Rommel and tanks and wanted something good to read. I'll do a search on Google and Amazon and see which books show up with good reviews.

I read about Monte after Saving Private Ryan.

Tanks was another aspect of WWII that I was always interested in as well. Rommel and other commanders as well to a certain extent. I've always been interested in the firearms used, and then the tanks and other "war vehicles" as well.


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I read about Monte after Saving Private Ryan.

Tanks was another aspect of WWII that I was always interested in as well. Rommel and other commanders as well to a certain extent. I've always been interested in the firearms used, and then the tanks and other "war vehicles" as well.


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Since you and JL are interested in tanks, I think the most interesting tank development were the German tanks. And possibly the Russian's late development of a great battle tank. But with that said, the U.S. had many different types of tanks during WWII. Most people don't know that. We had medium and heavy tanks as well as the Sherman. But my favorite U.S. tank was the Stuart light tank. The Stuart was used a lot during the island hopping campaign in the Pacific Theater. Another great aspect to study about WWII.

Tank wars are yet another neat aspect of WWII that I know little about. However, if tank wars are interesting to you, I would get a good book about the campaign led by Patton from the viewpoint of the tank. There are some great tank battles fought by the Allies against the Germans. And another tank war I found interesting are the wars that Israel took part in in the 1960's. The 6 day war, war of attrition, etc. Maybe some others?

I'll look up that book on Patton and tanks.

Another aspect of WWII that I got interested in more recently  the battles in the Marianas and Okinawa. I do a lot of work in those areas and kind of think about what went on there during the war.


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