encroachment (Read 15091 times)

London808

encroachment
« on: April 21, 2017, 10:49:18 AM »
So my neighbor sold/is selling their house , When they had the survey done they have a washing line pole that sticks into my yard by 6 inchs, They are asking for us to sign an encroachment agreement.

From my understanding this gives the new owner consent to use that 6 inchs for forever (until they take down the pole or it falls down on its own)

I see no reason to sign this agreement, there is no positive side to me and only negative.

 Any thoughts?
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

zippz

Re: encroachment
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 11:25:40 AM »
I wouldn't sign it.  I would just notify the new neighbors of the issue and say you're fine with it.  Seems like a big deal for a non-issue.

changemyoil66

Re: encroachment
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 11:31:13 AM »
Sign nothing because right now, you're cool with the current neighbor.  So what if new one are pricks, you will tell them to get that pole back to their side.  Or charge them rent.

Inspector

Re: encroachment
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 01:15:08 PM »
So my neighbor sold/is selling their house , When they had the survey done they have a washing line pole that sticks into my yard by 6 inchs, They are asking for us to sign an encroachment agreement.

From my understanding this gives the new owner consent to use that 6 inchs for forever (until they take down the pole or it falls down on its own)

I see no reason to sign this agreement, there is no positive side to me and only negative.

 Any thoughts?
Don't sign anything. There is no up side for you. And I am a firm believer in no good deed going unpunished. It can and probably will backfire on you somehow. JMHO
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

aieahound

Re: encroachment
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 01:38:26 PM »
Just tell 'em that that 6" is yours, but if the new neighbor is cool you'll let them borrow it.

Don't sign it. (IMO)
It just makes everything more complicated down the line regarding the property line, access, etc.
If I'm not mistaken that's a legal document filed with the Bureau of Conveyances. ( = headache down the road )
Inspector would probably know best as he's a realtor.

They can always hack off the 6" of the end of the pole that's encroaching.
Then it's legal and nothing significant lost on your neighbors part.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: encroachment
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 02:18:29 PM »
For residential properties in Hawaii, an encroachment of six inches or less is considered "de minimis".  For purposes of buying and selling real estate in Hawaii, de minimis encroachments do not require encroachment agreements by statute.

The de minimis law was enacted by Hawaii's legislature in 1997.  Prior to that, any measured encroachment would require an encroachment agreement to protect the owners of encroaching properties along with the the title companies.

While the de minimis law reduces the number of encroachment agreements filed, note that a neighbor still has the right to tear down an encroachment going onto his property if an encroachment agreement is not in place.  So if a wall encroaches onto a neighbor's property by one inch and there is no encroachment agreement, the neighbor can remove that one inch of wall.

Often, the lending company's lawyers may require an encroachment agreement to approve the loan.  That depends on (1) if the lender sees the encroachment when reviewing the survey and (2) how strict the lender is.

With the agreement, the neighbor has the right of use, and you can't change that.  Without the agreement, the neighbor is risking you removing the encroachment one day without their approval.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

London808

Re: encroachment
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 02:36:31 PM »
Just got a look at the surveys assessment and its not 6 inchs as told by the seller but 1ft,

Not that it changes anything. I will not be signing the agreement.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Flapp_Jackson

Re: encroachment
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 02:44:42 PM »
Just got a look at the surveys assessment and its not 6 inchs as told by the seller but 1ft,

Not that it changes anything. I will not be signing the agreement.

The law requires a signed agreement for over 6 inches encroachment.  If you don't sign, the neighbor must remove the encroachment to comply with the survey and satisfy the lender and title company.

This gives you leverage.  Some neighbors request a payment to sign the agreement, or I guess you could have other stipulations added to the agreement (maintain the entire area around the encroachment, including grass cutting, tree trimming, etc.).

Read the link here for how things will go based on your willingness to sign:

http://www.honolulurealestateviews.com/d/d/surveys-encroachments-in-honolulu.html
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

whynow?

Re: encroachment
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 02:47:29 PM »
Shouldn't be too hard for the nieghbor to move a clothesline pole in this modern era.  Then end of subject.  Don't sign anything.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: encroachment
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 02:51:39 PM »
If you can do your own legal work, charge $1000 for legal review of buyer's encroachment agreement.

That's a good donation to the RAPBACK effort!   :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Heavies

Re: encroachment
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 03:17:41 PM »
Sell it...

Using Rail's cost of $500,000,000 per mile as a standard, comes out to $94,696.97 per foot, $7891.40 per inch. 

$47,348.40...   Round it out to an even $50K , because the cost will inevitably increase.

Or say HELL NO.   :thumbsup:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: encroachment
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 03:22:31 PM »
Sell it...

Using Rail's cost of $500,000,000 per mile as a standard, comes out to $94,696.97 per foot, $7891.40 per inch. 

$47,348.40...   Round it out to an even $50K , because the cost will inevitably increase.

Or say HELL NO.   :thumbsup:

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Jl808

Re: encroachment
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 03:37:51 PM »
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Heavies

Re: encroachment
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 05:57:53 PM »
Just got a look at the surveys assessment and its not 6 inchs as told by the seller but 1ft,

Not that it changes anything. I will not be signing the agreement.

Oh...  missed this post.  $94,696.97.  easymoney 8)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: encroachment
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 06:06:34 PM »
If you're dead set against the neighbors having the clothes line there, just tell them to remove it.  In a few years, they will probably forget, and the issue will no longer exist.

Was the line installed before or after you moved there?

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

London808

Re: encroachment
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2017, 06:37:04 PM »
If you're dead set against the neighbors having the clothes line there, just tell them to remove it.  In a few years, they will probably forget, and the issue will no longer exist.

Was the line installed before or after you moved there?

It's not that I'm against them having the line, it's been there for decades. It's I don't want an agreement saying that it has a right to be there, possibly effecting if me latter on.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

drck1000

encroachment
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2017, 06:44:26 PM »
Prob doesn't matter for clothes line, but I thought there was some provision or practice where if something from a neighboring property was on the wrong side for a certain period of time that it became permanent. I tried to look it up, but couldn't find it. I'll have to ask my surveyor friend.

Best I recall is say I build a fence that is 1 ft in your property. That even though the official survey documents say that is the case. If it's there for a certain period of time that date that time either you can't force them to move the fence or the property line moves. I think the period is 20 years.

Dammit. It's going to bother me now. It's not eminent domain, but something like that.

ETA: Its adverse possession.

Anyways my point was that I hope the "over the line" element doesn't become permanent if let be for a certain period of time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 06:52:24 PM by drck1000 »

London808

Re: encroachment
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2017, 07:04:33 PM »
Prob doesn't matter for clothes line, but I thought there was some provision or practice where if something from a neighboring property was on the wrong side for a certain period of time that it became permanent. I tried to look it up, but couldn't find it. I'll have to ask my surveyor friend.

Best I recall is say I build a fence that is 1 ft in your property. That even though the official survey documents say that is the case. If it's there for a certain period of time that date that time either you can't force them to move the fence or the property line moves. I think the period is 20 years.

Dammit. It's going to bother me now. It's not eminent domain, but something like that.

ETA: Its adverse possession.

Anyways my point was that I hope the "over the line" element doesn't become permanent if let be for a certain period of time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does not apply in this situation the fact that it's actually over my boundary fence is enough for them to know it's not part of their property
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

eyeeatingfish

Re: encroachment
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 09:40:08 PM »
So my neighbor sold/is selling their house , When they had the survey done they have a washing line pole that sticks into my yard by 6 inchs, They are asking for us to sign an encroachment agreement.

From my understanding this gives the new owner consent to use that 6 inchs for forever (until they take down the pole or it falls down on its own)

I see no reason to sign this agreement, there is no positive side to me and only negative.

 Any thoughts?

I believe it depends on what an encroachment agreement states. If it is vague and does not expire then it could cause problems. But if specific and limited then I think it would be safe.

Another factor is how long it has been there. I cannot recall the term but there is a concept where if someone has been allowed to use a certain portion of your land for a long time then it sort of becomes an agreement because of the time span. Like if someone used a portion of your land to drive on and access a part of their land. Even if there was never an agreement but they used it for 50 years, you couldn't just up and stop them from using it.

This is pretty minor though. Why not just have them cut off 6 inches from the bar?

London808

Re: encroachment
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2017, 10:31:51 PM »
I believe it depends on what an encroachment agreement states. If it is vague and does not expire then it could cause problems. But if specific and limited then I think it would be safe.

Another factor is how long it has been there. I cannot recall the term but there is a concept where if someone has been allowed to use a certain portion of your land for a long time then it sort of becomes an agreement because of the time span. Like if someone used a portion of your land to drive on and access a part of their land. Even if there was never an agreement but they used it for 50 years, you couldn't just up and stop them from using it.

This is pretty minor though. Why not just have them cut off 6 inches from the bar?

what your talking about is an easement and its written into the land title, This is often done for people who are landlocked by other property's and is a different thing from an encroachment.

The buyer is the one asking for the agreement before buying (the seller is trying to accommodate him), Cutting the pole to the fence line would be the best option, Its actually 1 ft inside my property line according to the surveyors. Its obvious its in my property just from looking at it, its sticking about 8 inch over my back fence.

The sellers agent called and was talking to me about it and when i told him we wont be signing the agreement he went from mister nice guy to a real dick, They had the survey done over a month ago and are just coming to us now.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016