Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project (Read 19480 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2017, 02:07:22 PM »
If it wasn't for MISMANAGEMENT, Hawaii would have NO MANAGEMENT at all.   :wacko:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2017, 03:09:02 PM »
Whatever someone feels about the rail project, at this point it's too far underway to just abandon it. Might as well finish.

That was the plan all along.  To build as much as possible with the money they had so you had to finish it because too many $$$ would be thrown away.  Caldwell made it sound like rail would be almost built for free with the Fed funding 1/3 of it and the jobs created etc.  The Fed funding did not increase but costs did astronomically.  So much so that instead of 1/3, the Fed funding is now only about 1/8 of the cost.  I think it will cost over $10B to build it to Ala Moana.  When Cayetano was running for mayor, he wanted to greatly expand the bus system for $350m.  That would have been in operation 5 years ago.  With Hawaii bragging about stopping his order on immigration, if I was Trump I wouldn't give Hawaii squat.
Happily living in Puna

rklapp

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2017, 04:55:41 PM »
It will cost $10B to finish to downtown. Another $2B to Waikiki. Another $3B to Waianae. In 10 years, the rail will be full. The highways will be full. The buses will be full. If we waited 20 years to start building the rail, it would cost $100B. Basically, we're effed no matter what we do.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

FBI

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2017, 05:04:01 PM »
That was the plan all along.  To build as much as possible with the money they had so you had to finish it because too many $$$ would be thrown away.  Caldwell made it sound like rail would be almost built for free with the Fed funding 1/3 of it and the jobs created etc.  The Fed funding did not increase but costs did astronomically.  So much so that instead of 1/3, the Fed funding is now only about 1/8 of the cost.  I think it will cost over $10B to build it to Ala Moana.  When Cayetano was running for mayor, he wanted to greatly expand the bus system for $350m.  That would have been in operation 5 years ago.  With Hawaii bragging about stopping his order on immigration, if I was Trump I wouldn't give Hawaii squat.

 I agree with starving Hawaii of all federal funds.
That chu-chu is a Democrat mess and I hope it
destroys  the local Honolulu and Oahu
economy.  It will be a monument to stupidity,  too bad the lesson is lost
on idiot Democrats.  You have to have a brain to learn something,
besides how to screw things.



Rocky

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2017, 07:51:43 PM »
Whatever someone feels about the rail project, at this point it's too far underway to just abandon it. Might as well finish.
:wtf:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

RSN172

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2017, 04:07:49 AM »
It will cost $10B to finish to downtown. Another $2B to Waikiki. Another $3B to Waianae. In 10 years, the rail will be full. The highways will be full. The buses will be full. If we waited 20 years to start building the rail, it would cost $100B. Basically, we're effed no matter what we do.
Move to a gun friendly much cheaper cost of living state on the mainland? 
Happily living in Puna

Heavies

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2017, 05:39:45 AM »
If the CIty doesn't get money for the rail from the Feds ...guess who they will turn to....us.
How many of you want to be taxed for the rest of our lives to line the pockets of those political elite?

I think maybe the sanctions and inevitable taxes may be the tipping point where the people of this state finally WAKE UP.  fed funding or no, they'll keep raising taxes on everything.  With no fed funding, maybe they won't be able to do the slow unnoticed incrimental increases that is their M.O. 

Like how they take our 2A rights.  Small incremental removal doesn't seem to get much notice or care from Hawaii gun owners. But something major actually gets a little more notice and effort from the gun people.

Heavies

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2017, 05:42:25 AM »
Whatever someone feels about the rail project, at this point it's too far underway to just abandon it. Might as well finish.
It's never too late to reverse course on a bad mistake.   

Inspector

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2017, 06:00:40 AM »
It's never too late to reverse course on a bad mistake.
I agree. If we continue without the Fed funding we are going to see a large raise in property taxes as they have already stated this is their intention. This tax affects all of us directly as we either all own property or rent property. A 10% raise will still not be enough IMHO. But I am sure all of you who want to pay an additional 10% in property taxes or a rent increase of 10% of your monthly rent. And what benefit will you directly derive from this increase in rent/taxes?
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

punaperson

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2017, 06:28:08 AM »
Am I being "cynical" (or "realistic") to suggest that these politicians will do whatever they want to do regarding rail financing, including raise/create any taxes they choose to any degree they choose, UNLESS such a decision would bode ill for their future careers of living off the public teat? In which case they will reverse course and call out the "corruption" and do away with the horrible wasteful rail project that cost the poor taxpayers so much (i.e. "Keep electing me forever because I'm doing all this to serve you!")!

PeaShooter

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2017, 07:42:51 AM »
Sometimes it's too late to change. Supposing the rail were already built and finished with only $1 left to send some paperwork and get it running, would anyone in their right mind complain over that $1?

punaperson

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2017, 07:51:24 AM »
Sometimes it's too late to change. Supposing the rail were already built and finished with only $1 left to send some paperwork and get it running, would anyone in their right mind complain over that $1?
So you're asserting that, for argument's sake, there is no practical difference between one dollar and at least three billion dollars?

Hell, if they needed just one dollar to finish it, I'd give it to them and I don't live on that island. Of course it would be in the form of 100 pennies and would be sent "postage due"...

PeaShooter

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2017, 10:02:35 AM »
I was only addressing certain comments. We aren't at such a clear point yet but in my opinion we may have built enough to consider it the point of no return. Does anyone have figures for how much has already been spent?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2017, 10:19:27 AM »
I was only addressing certain comments. We aren't at such a clear point yet but in my opinion we may have built enough to consider it the point of no return. Does anyone have figures for how much has already been spent?

When it comes to cost of a project, there is NO SUCH THING as a "point of no return" unless you're destroying something in the process -- then it might be more problematic to stop than complete the project to make whatever it is safe, like preparing a valley for flooding to create a lake.

This project will not destroy anything if we stop.  The track supports could be left standing with no danger to the public since they will be there with a train running as well.

I've posted before about the fallacy of sunken costs.  EEF has a real problem understanding it, so I expect he'll recycle his comments unless I mention it.

Sunken costs:  the money already spent.  Now that we are already so over budget we can't count that high, you and others say we might as well finish it.  Finishing will cost another 1,2 ,3 4, or 5 billion dollars -- we won't know until the contractors give more new estimates.

Quote
The project was initially projected to cost $4.6 billion, but that number now is $6.7 billion, forcing the city in January
to approve a five-year extension of a general excise tax surcharge to help cover the overrun.

City officials are awaiting the opening of two sets of bids, covering the final 10 miles of the project, to see if even that is
enough. At this rate, city officials said, it could have the distinction of being, on a per-capita basis, the most expensive
transit project in the country’s history
— in a state that also has the highest per capita cost of living in the nation.

The train, which will take passengers from this city in western Oahu to the edge of Waikiki, is at least two years behind
schedule, set for opening at the end of 2021.

So, we are talking an extended period to complete:  2021.  It's 2017 now, so another 4+ years.  There are already problems of worsened traffic and businesses closing or going into deep debt to survive.  Those costs are real costs as well.  Money was set aside to help these businesses, but no money has been provided to anyone.  It just sits there because the legislature never gave anyone authority to use it. 

The question becomes, at what point have we spent more money than this will be worth?  That is the point where you CUT YOUR LOSSES and stop the insanity.   Use the money that would have been used to finish the rail for another project -- transportation, sewers, water mains, parks, homeless, .... So many opportunities to spend that money and actually have something good to show for it over another 4+ years to create a train system that is guaranteed to not be self-sustaining moneywise. 

That's called an opportunity cost -- choosing to fund the rail means you've cost yourself any benefit of funding something else instead.

Priorities -- they matter.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2017, 08:45:57 PM »
Leaving the unfinished rail project standing is not a waste.  It could be used as a monument to stupidity and and for all those who voted for stupidity.
Happily living in Puna

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2017, 09:38:25 PM »
Leaving the unfinished rail project standing is not a waste.  It could be used as a monument to stupidity and and for all those who voted for stupidity.

Imagine the fun we can have decorating the big concrete supports for Christmas!   :thumbsup:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2017, 05:58:37 AM »
Leaving the unfinished rail project standing is not a waste.  It could be used as a monument to stupidity and and for all those who voted for stupidity.
ANOTHER one?

Aren't there enough of those already?

Inspector

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2017, 06:17:54 AM »
ANOTHER one?

Aren't there enough of those already?
You can never have enough signs of politician stupidity IMHO!!!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Besides, what do you care? You don't even live on this island and you are not religious so what do you care if we have another chunk of concrete to decorate for Christmas?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Jl808

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2017, 06:52:46 AM »
:rofl:
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

punaperson

Re: Ex-Gov Cayetano Asks Trump to End Rail Project
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2017, 08:12:47 AM »
You can never have enough signs of politician stupidity IMHO!!!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yeah, well it'd be one thing if they funded those monuments to their own stupidity out of their own pockets... but instead they take from ours.

Besides, what do you care? You don't even live on this island and you are not religious so what do you care if we have another chunk of concrete to decorate for Christmas?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

We've got more than enough political stupidity on this island already... I suspect that even more ludicrous "ideas" like the rail project are disease vectors that can spread (you know, like the CDC claims about gun ownership). That and with the money spent for rail they could annually buy every person on Oahu a 12' christmas tree, a manger display, a giant ho-ho-ho-ing santa, and 40 illuminated nodding reindeer for several eternities. But if you like $10 billion concrete pylons to decorate for christmas... I guess it's just "personal taste"...  :shaka: