Actually it's simpler than that. 

Scenario #1 --
HPD to HMO:  Anything in this person's record related to mental health?

HMO to HPD:  No. 

HPD:  Processes permit.

Scenario #2 --
HPD to HMO:  Anything in this person's record related to mental health?

HMO to HPD:  Yes, but we aren't going to say if it's serious enough to warrant denying their second amendment rights. 

HPD:  Denies permit.  Requires applicant to find and pay for another doctor to issue a letter saying you are mentally fit to possess a firearm.


All it takes for a denial is a "flag" that you were a "behavioral services" patient at one time, regardless of the reason.

Actually it's worse then that.


HPD to HMO,   Is there any medical reason this person can't own firearms,

If HMO was era no then you good to go,

If HMO  wanders yes then your denied,

If the HMO follows the law and says they don't make that determination here are the records, HPD decides it's not qualified to make that determination and denies you even tho their is no medical evidence to suggest you should be denied.

The only way to get in denied is to find a doctor to sign a form saying your medically sound.

Don't plan to leave the island.  Not in rap back.

typical
tell others what to think/do rather than stepping up

Is it true that if you hold government security clearance you're already in rap back?

Is it true that if you hold government security clearance you're already in rap back?

If you really want to know, do some research into the FBI Next Generation Identification (NGI) System. 

"Am I in RAPBACK" is a two-part answer.

Part I:  If you are providing fingerprints, photos, retina scans, DNA and other biometric identity information, you are added to the NGI database.

Part II:  HPD wants to SUBSCRIBE themselves to the NGI reporting system, which is RAPBACK.  If you ever encounter law enforcement in any state, the Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center receives a report on your activity.  They then send the information to HPD or anyone else who subscribed to receive your reports in RAPBACK.

So, even if the subscription is canceled in accordance with the posted policy, your information will forever be in the FBI database.

If having a clearance adds you to the NGI database, you are already there regardless of whether the agency adding you subscribed to RAPBACK.  Only HPD can subscribe you so that they receive updates for the purpose of assessing your fitness to possess firearms.

Sue then.


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Nice reply however I say to you and everyone else who loves to give wisecrack replies to an honest question, what ever happened to the legal action that a lot of us donated to or did I miss something?
Thanks....

Nice reply however I say to you and everyone else who loves to give wisecrack replies to an honest question, what ever happened to the legal action that a lot of us donated to or did I miss something?
Thanks....

It's still ongoing,

Several things have happened that have kind of put things on hold,

Change of president,
Change of AG,
Future appointment of federal judges,
Change in police chief,
Appointment of a new AG,

All of these things can have a serious effect on the outcome of any legal outcome,

 Not to mention we have a little over $5k when we need closer to $15k,

I have been working on some league angels that may be able to go through the state courts which I feel i can file myself. They won't  get rid of rapback but will make it harder for HPD to enforce/pay for it.

(When I say HPD I mean all law enforcement and state and city agency's involved, it's just easier to say HPD)

Nice reply however I say to you and everyone else who loves to give wisecrack replies to an honest question, what ever happened to the legal action that a lot of us donated to or did I miss something?
Thanks....

I think you missed something. It was Omni's post about rap backs legality and the fact that some one should sue. If he feels that way let him be the one to bring suit, not wise crack it was serious. I have donated to London's cause and to the HRA-PAC. London has made updates to the main rap back thread. I see now he has made an update here above now also.

If everyone on this forum put there money where their keyboard was he could have met his goal prescribed by his counsel. To those who haven't donated please do so any amount helps.

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25686.0


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Is it true that if you hold government security clearance you're already in rap back?

As I understand, teachers or those in a "position of trust" are already included into the system.

It's still ongoing,

Several things have happened that have kind of put things on hold,

Change of president,
Change of AG,
Future appointment of federal judges,
Change in police chief,
Appointment of a new AG,

All of these things can have a serious effect on the outcome of any legal outcome,

 Not to mention we have a little over $5k when we need closer to $15k,

I have been working on some league angels that may be able to go through the state courts which I feel i can file myself. They won't  get rid of rapback but will make it harder for HPD to enforce/pay for it.

(When I say HPD I mean all law enforcement and state and city agency's involved, it's just easier to say HPD)

Thanks for the update bro. Really appreciate it.

I think you missed something. It was Omni's post about rap backs legality and the fact that some one should sue. If he feels that way let him be the one to bring suit, not wise crack it was serious. I have donated to London's cause and to the HRA-PAC. London has made updates to the main rap back thread. I see now he has made an update here above now also.

If everyone on this forum put there money where their keyboard was he could have met his goal prescribed by his counsel. To those who haven't donated please do so any amount helps.

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25686.0


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Understand but instead of wisecracks me thinks if the comment would have been like London's and yours it would have beem more appropriate. Yes, I contributed and plan to contribute again in the very near future. Bottom line is we all have to put up the bucks if we're going to defeat this Rap Back as a collective body..... thanks....

I think you missed something. It was Omni's post about rap backs legality and the fact that some one should sue. If he feels that way let him be the one to bring suit, not wise crack it was serious. I have donated to London's cause and to the HRA-PAC. London has made updates to the main rap back thread. I see now he has made an update here above now also.

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Well seeing as the suit doesn't apply to me makes it kinda hard eh?  But I guess in your make believe world view it isn't.  People can sue anyone regardless of personal involvement.  I was actually being serious in my previous comment.

As I understand, teachers or those in a "position of trust" are already included into the system.

That's true, but you're talking about employment where the workers have daily contact with children.  If one is caught and arrested in Vegas having sex with a minor, that goes directly to safety of the children they teach.

To equate that with exercising a Constitutional right where the mere accusation of domestic violence in another state would likely be enough to strip you of that right before any trial or chance to clear your name is wrong.

It's not just positions of trust that are in RAPBACK.  It's sex offenders, parolees, felons and probationers. 

Given the way the gun laws are in Hawaii, which group do you believe lawmakers see gun owners as part of:  Trusted Positions, or Criminals?

Well seeing as the suit doesn't apply to me makes it kinda hard eh?  But I guess in your make believe world view it isn't.  People can sue anyone regardless of personal involvement.  I was actually being serious in my previous comment.

Go buy a new/used firearm then so you can be rap backed. There is nothing make believe about me cupcake.


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That's true, but you're talking about employment where the workers have daily contact with children.  If one is caught and arrested in Vegas having sex with a minor, that goes directly to safety of the children they teach.

To equate that with exercising a Constitutional right where the mere accusation of domestic violence in another state would likely be enough to strip you of that right before any trial or chance to clear your name is wrong.

It's not just positions of trust that are in RAPBACK.  It's sex offenders, parolees, felons and probationers. 

Given the way the gun laws are in Hawaii, which group do you believe lawmakers see gun owners as part of:  Trusted Positions, or Criminals?

Totally agree. Like I said, complete waste of government time and resources. I used to post gun related things on Facebook but with the liberal gun laws here, decided it was no longer worth the risk.

I have been working on some league angels that may be able to go through the state courts which I feel i can file myself. They won't  get rid of rapback but will make it harder for HPD to enforce/pay for it.
(When I say HPD I mean all law enforcement and state and city agency's involved, it's just easier to say HPD)

In order for a case to go to court, there has to be a financially or emotionally damaged complainant. That's why I think London is a hero.

Go buy a new/used firearm then so you can be rap backed. There is nothing make believe about me cupcake.


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Sure then proceed to move off the island so I can sue and de-register all my guns.  Easy as pie!  Can do that in 30 minutes or less.   

What you have to remmber is when you sign that waiver you are signing away 4th and 5th amendment rights in order to exercise your 2nd,

The fact that the FBI requires you to sign the waiver should tell you that without it they can not put you in rapback.

Any information given to the FBI is kept indefinitely, there is no removal option,

HPD is used g rapback on the belief that all gun owners in Hawaii are likely to commit crimes and that if they do they will commit further crimes by not surrendering their firearms.

This is not just a 2nd amendment issue it's a 4th, 5th and 14th ammendment issue as well.

Even if you are in rapback a database because of a job or previous encounter you are not in it with a little check box that says firearms and your every interaction with police officers is not reported across state lines to other agency's.

HPD is used g rapback on the belief that all gun owners in Hawaii are likely to commit crimes and that if they do they will commit further crimes by not surrendering their firearms.

The entire structure of Hawaii's "firearms laws" (registration, permits to acquire, training requirements, waiting periods, bans on many forms of arms (electronic, expandable batons, "assault pistols", etc., etc., etc.) is a form of "prior restraint", wherein all people expressing a desire to exercise their Second Amendment-guaranteed rights are considered de facto criminals who in a sense are on parole or probation prior to having committed (much less be convicted of) any actual (so far) crime and must have as much information about them as possible recorded by the state (in both senses) for the sake of "public safety".

That's why in testimony before the legislature 15 years ago the Honolulu chief of police testified that they spent 50,000 man hours per year processing "registration" data and had never used any of that information to solve even one single crime.

Do the math. Obviously they don't have that information on firearms owners for "public safety"/crime solving purposes. RapBack is just another extension and intrusion of the surveillance state. And not one single oath-taking government "public servant" in the entire state of Hawaii is willing to do anything about it... except come up with more similar intrusions and infringements and the taxpayer money to fund them.

This is not just a 2nd amendment issue it's a 4th, 5th and 14th ammendment issue as well.

Even if you are in rapback a database because of a job or previous encounter you are not in it with a little check box that says firearms and your every interaction with police officers is not reported across state lines to other agency's.

Agreed. The Founding Fathers used British history as a bad example of what not to do including King James confiscating firearms from the Protestants. The entire process seems to lack due process to me.

Agreed. The Founding Fathers used British history as a bad example of what not to do including King James confiscating firearms from the Protestants. The entire process seems to lack due process to me.

Exactly!