Starting a thread about AK ammo discussion.  I'm thinking 7.62x39, but 5.45x39 as well. 

Figured this discussion could use it's own thread.  That and didn't want Stang's AR build thread to go too far sideways.

Anyways, the AK ammo that I currently have:

WPA Polyformance 123 gr HP
Norinco China Sports Soft Point and Lead Core (FMJ)

All are steel cased, berdan primed and boxes indicate non-corrosive.  In another thread, the discussion was berdan primers can be corrosive.  From what I've read (not that much) so far is that berdan primers can be corrosive, but many say that recent production ammo is fine. 

I have about 200+ rounds through my Arsenal AK with a mixture of WPA Polyformance and Silver Bear.  All steel cased and berdan primed.  I just took a quick look and no rust on chamber, muzzle device, piston rod, etc.  I did clean the gun after each shooting session.  Minimum was a boresnake.  I'm not saying that says to me that my ammo is fine, but just seems fine so far.  I also read that some AKs seem to be more susceptible to rusting as well.

I've also read that many believe early 70's and older ammo is likely corrosive.  Not sure how old the Norinco ammo that I have is since I picked it up with an AK that was in an estate sale.  From my research so far, it seems like the ammo is early to mid 80s production, but not sure either way.  I have about 400 rounds of a mix of lead core and soft points.  I was really looking forward to testing the soft point ammo out on sections of 4x4 and see difference between that and the lead core.  The owner of the gun had the ammo "preset" in an alternating pattern of soft point and lead core.

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I only shot Win white box 7.62X39 brass cased thru my Arsenal cause I was too lazy to do a thorough cleaning in case my non-corrosive marked steel cased ammo was corrosive.   I have Wolf, Tula, Brown bear and Silver bear steel cased mostly ball and some SP ammo for my stash.  In reality, around the world I don't see the fighters that use AKs daily, soaking the barrel, gas tubes and other parts  to get rid of corrosive salts like American gun owners.   But until the SHTF and I gotta use my stash, I'll soak with Ballistol or other water based solvent to remove "perceived" corrosive prioducts, if I use some steel cased Russian ammo
My AK is a backup to the backup simply cause I got more 5.56/.223 and not deep in AK mags.

Not really super concerned about the corrosiveness of the recent production ammo that I have. That said, I do want to take care of my guns. They are tools and all my guns are shooters and want to shoot and train with them. They definitely aren't babied. But I also don't want to pick them up one day and see rust all over with pitting.

The second AK that I bought through the estate sale was meant to be a project and beater gun. As it turns out, it may have collector value, so don't want to start on modifying it just yet.

I have seen a bunch of other shooter friends AKs with light surface rust on the bolt carrier and other external exposed parts. I had assumed it was just cheap metal corroding. Never thought about corrosive ammo.


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For my Molot VEPR x39, I bought Tulammo HP at OGC when I picked up the rifle last December (yeah rapeback!). This ammo has .308" bullets. My understanding is that domestic AKs are .308 and overseas AKs are .310 bore. I bought brass cases and 900 of the Hornady Vmax .310 bullets from TooFewPews with the last of my H335. Both are accurate at 50 yards but disappointing at 100 yards. I was told to try a boattail but only have that in .308. I also have Speer .311 and Hornady .312 bullets to use. I haven't tried my RL7 or the CFEBLK powders yet.

I was having trouble with the brass hitting the dust cover causing gouges in the brass. They of course mostly flatten out when FL sizing and chamber firing. Eventually, it eats up the brass so I bought car door bumpers and glued them on to the dust cover. No more dents. The first time lasted about 150 rounds before it fell off, so we'll see how long the second try lasts.

Another problem I have is recovering my brass because they tend to go flying into the grass and I have a difficult time finding them with my red/green color blindness. I use the screens that KSC has available which mostly works as long as I use the clamp to deflect the brass down into the bench. I could buy a Caldwell brass catcher or I might try the laundry basket trick. I see a lot of people at the range who make their own.

For my Molot VEPR x39, I bought Tulammo HP at OGC when I picked up the rifle last December (yeah rapeback!). This ammo has .308" bullets. My understanding is that domestic AKs are .308 and overseas AKs are .310 bore. I bought brass cases and 900 of the Hornady Vmax .310 bullets from TooFewPews with the last of my H335. Both are accurate at 50 yards but disappointing at 100 yards. I was told to try a boattail but only have that in .308. I also have Speer .311 and Hornady .312 bullets to use. I haven't tried my RL7 or the CFEBLK powders yet.

I was having trouble with the brass hitting the dust cover causing gouges in the brass. They of course mostly flatten out when FL sizing and chamber firing. Eventually, it eats up the brass so I bought car door bumpers and glued them on to the dust cover. No more dents. The first time lasted about 150 rounds before it fell off, so we'll see how long the second try lasts.

Another problem I have is recovering my brass because they tend to go flying into the grass and I have a difficult time finding them with my red/green color blindness. I use the screens that KSC has available which mostly works as long as I use the clamp to deflect the brass down into the bench. I could buy a Caldwell brass catcher or I might try the laundry basket trick. I see a lot of people at the range who make their own.

Have you tried a brass magnet?  They were made specifically for recovering spent brass in the dirt and grass without having to bend down.   

Have you tried a brass magnet?  They were made specifically for recovering spent brass in the dirt and grass without having to bend down.   

Right...  I think you meant this.
https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/525094/caldwell-brass-retriever-with-roll-cage-separator-aluminum

The slope outside of the KSC tables is covered in steel AK cases. It's getting to be a slip hazard in some spots. I should borrow one of those rolling nail magnets that my client has and try to remove some of the spent steel cases.

That roller thing is bleh. Good at picking up casings, but also good at picking up rocks.

I have this net. It's pricey, but works really well. You handy folks can prob make one just as good or better, but I don't have the time nor inclination.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/942827/ctk-precision-universal-brass-catcher


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That roller thing is bleh. Good at picking up casings, but also good at picking up rocks.
I have this net. It's pricey, but works really well. You handy folks can prob make one just as good or better, but I don't have the time nor inclination.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/942827/ctk-precision-universal-brass-catcher

Yeah for the price, I'll stick with the KSC nets as long as other people stop ripping the netting. I do hear they have cheap netting at Home Depot and plan to check it out someday.

I use a laundry hamper from Wal-Mart  $5 and clamp it to the table. Works great.
Back OT
I've had my arsenal for a few years and wasr for a few years
Have only used steel case ammo. Tula and silver bear.
No signs of any rust whatsoever. But I am very good about cleaning them thoroughly after every use.
I've only shot 300 through the arsenal and 200 through the wasr so that's not a lot.
I'll be testing a new ar upper in 7.62x39 soon with various ammo
Have wolf but haven't opened the case yet.
Just bought some AE brass ammo to test also

My comments about Norinco ammo in this thread:

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=21858.msg244109#msg244109

not AK ammo, but...
I got some Tulammo in 45acp and 357 mag recently
the 45 acp worked well in my semiauto and in my revolver, but the 357 mag got stuck in the cylinder of my revolver every time. blazer aluminum works fine in the 357
I had to use a allen wrench to push out the spent steel casings.  I could have used anything but I just had some allen wrenches handy at the time.  it wasn't very hard to push out, but significantly harder than brass casings
I think the 45acp just didn't have enough pressure to expand it enough
if I waited a minute or so, then I could use the extractor to push out the casings in the revolver
I read somewhere that steel is harder to expand and takes longer to shrink vs brass.  maybe the waiting a minute was enough time for it to shrink enough for me to push it out.  it was still kind of stuck but I was able to push it out much easier than if I didn't wait a minute
tulammo: not good for self defense in 357 revolver if you have to reload

Have you tried a brass magnet?  They were made specifically for recovering spent brass in the dirt and grass without having to bend down.   

...
Works great! You guys seen my video before. Pictures don't lie.

I thought the purpose of an AK was that it can shoot all day, every day?  So no worries about any rust.

I have a thought or two regarding the Chinese ammo made by Norinco. Back in the early to mid 90's I was buying cases of Norinco 9mm ammo. Most of it was headstamped 91-93. All brass cased, boxer primed, reloadable in some cases, and non corrosive. Obviously it was fresh as it was usually headstampped only a year or so before I bought it. When I was buying it, it was cheap and delivered via UPS to my front door. It is literally some of the best commercially made ammo I have ever bought. It is as accurate as anything I was reloading at the time. And cheaper, so I bought 15,000 rounds of it. Only complaint I had at the time was that it was loaded to what feels like +P velocities. And it is not marked as such. Now that I have had it for over 20 years I have two more complaints and that is that it is starting to corrode a little bit. I only have 800 or so rounds left so I'll shoot it up long before it goes bad. And it is really not reloadable as the primer pockets are inconsistent in size ranging from to small to too large in diameter between rounds.

If anyone would like to try some just PM me and I will be happy to work out a trade with you.

I can't say that the ammo you have for your AK is as good as what I have for my 9mm but from my experience, it should be.

Never thought to get the headstamp on the Norinco ammo.  From what I've read, it's supposed to be decent to good ammo.  It's AK ammo.  It if functions reliably and is somewhat accurate, that's great. 

changemyoil. Most AK's use older style finishes like parkerizing or bluing. Which will rust pretty bad if not cared for (especially tapco g2 triggers). And pretty much all the parts are steel. Unlike the AR where lots of parts are aluminum. So from what I have seen, AK's rust worse than AR's. Just they have looser tolerances and can function with the rust.

More modern and small shops are jumping on board making AK's with nitride finishes and KG gunkote. So those type of AK's should be able to handle rust better. Pretty much all modern AK ammo is non-corrosive, unless it specifically says corrosive on it. Still a good idea to clean it after shooting.

I use a laundry hamper from Wal-Mart  $5 and clamp it to the table. Works great.
Back OT
I've had my arsenal for a few years and wasr for a few years
Have only used steel case ammo. Tula and silver bear.
No signs of any rust whatsoever. But I am very good about cleaning them thoroughly after every use.
I've only shot 300 through the arsenal and 200 through the wasr so that's not a lot.
I'll be testing a new ar upper in 7.62x39 soon with various ammo
Have wolf but haven't opened the case yet.
Just bought some AE brass ammo to test also

What is your cleaning routine?

I also haven't shot my Arsenal much.  One time I just wiped down everything with a cleaning rag, ran boresnake, and then greased up.  Another time, I ran bore brushes and patches, but don't think that's something I would do often.  I did clean and inspect the piston rod, but also something that I don't envision doing very often. 

not AK ammo, but...
I got some Tulammo in 45acp and 357 mag recently
the 45 acp worked well in my semiauto and in my revolver, but the 357 mag got stuck in the cylinder of my revolver every time. blazer aluminum works fine in the 357
I had to use a allen wrench to push out the spent steel casings.  I could have used anything but I just had some allen wrenches handy at the time.  it wasn't very hard to push out, but significantly harder than brass casings
I think the 45acp just didn't have enough pressure to expand it enough
if I waited a minute or so, then I could use the extractor to push out the casings in the revolver
I read somewhere that steel is harder to expand and takes longer to shrink vs brass.  maybe the waiting a minute was enough time for it to shrink enough for me to push it out.  it was still kind of stuck but I was able to push it out much easier than if I didn't wait a minute
tulammo: not good for self defense in 357 revolver if you have to reload

I've shot lots of Tula steel cased 9 mm and to me, that stuff is awesome.  Cheap, functioned well, etc.  Maybe it would be hard on say an extractor, but I didn't notice any ill effects.  And an extractor can be easily replaced. 

Sucks that the .357 Mag seemed to have problems. 

I thought the purpose of an AK was that it can shoot all day, every day?  So no worries about any rust.

All of my guns are shooters (as in no collectors items or wall trophies).  That said, yeah, my AKs don't get nearly as much time spent on cleaning them as other guns, like ARs or Rem 700 and I bought it with the thinking that it was a low maintenance gun.  However, I still want to take care of my guns and don't want to pick one up later and have it all rusted.  Surface rusting is fine, but I don't want pitting and other stuff, even if it functions fine.  I mean, if it functions fine, that's the main thing, but I would rather my guns be well maintained. 

Yeah, I get that people want to have beater guns that they are proud of how much use and abuse they take without cleaning?  While I am not a clean freak and definitely don't baby my guns, that doesn't mean that I will totally neglect them. 

All of my guns are shooters (as in no collectors items or wall trophies).  That said, yeah, my AKs don't get nearly as much time spent on cleaning them as other guns, like ARs or Rem 700 and I bought it with the thinking that it was a low maintenance gun.  However, I still want to take care of my guns and don't want to pick one up later and have it all rusted.  Surface rusting is fine, but I don't want pitting and other stuff, even if it functions fine.  I mean, if it functions fine, that's the main thing, but I would rather my guns be well maintained. 

Yeah, I get that people want to have beater guns that they are proud of how much use and abuse they take without cleaning?  While I am not a clean freak and definitely don't baby my guns, that doesn't mean that I will totally neglect them.

I always wanted an AK for the purpose of dooms day where cleaning is not done regularly. 

Saw a story on the military channel where there was a mass grave found in Vietnam in the 60's.  Bodies were buried there for at least 6 months with their weapons.  A general who was there saw the AK in the grave and told his men " this is how a rifle is supposed to work". He took the mag out, shook the rifle, then reinserted the mag.  The AK fired.

I always wanted an AK for the purpose of dooms day where cleaning is not done regularly. 

Saw a story on the military channel where there was a mass grave found in Vietnam in the 60's.  Bodies were buried there for at least 6 months with their weapons.  A general who was there saw the AK in the grave and told his men " this is how a rifle is supposed to work". He took the mag out, shook the rifle, then reinserted the mag.  The AK fired.

If you don't already have one, you should get one.  The market for them is awesome right now.  I just with ammo prices would go down, but it's not like ammo is expensive now.  Just not what it was.  If it wasn't for RapBack, I would likely have another stamped Arsenal as a project gun right now. 

Yeah, I got ya.  My primary reason for getting an AK was to learn the platform and just become familiar and hopefully eventually proficient in it.  That and ammo cost and low maintenance were also things that made me go for an AK. 

I mean even with rust, unless moving parts are fused shut, I would think that the gun would function with a good amount of rust.  Still not that I would want that for my personal gun, but I would think that they would tolerate quite a bit of abuse and still function reliably.