Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits (Read 24347 times)

RSN172

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2017, 08:31:15 PM »
Changemyoil wanted a video of me squeezing the laser and trigger together.  So I held the iPad in one hand while filming my other hand squeezing the laser and trigger.  If you really want to see it I can email it to you.
Happily living in Puna

changemyoil66

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2017, 09:00:21 AM »
Changemyoil wanted a video of me squeezing the laser and trigger together.  So I held the iPad in one hand while filming my other hand squeezing the laser and trigger.  If you really want to see it I can email it to you.

That sounds very complicated.  Should do it while standing on 1 foot also.

RSN172

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2017, 09:55:29 AM »
It is more complicated than it sounds.  Try it and you will see.  Trying to hold the iPad with one hand and hitting the start button while keeping it focused and not dropping the iPad is not real easy.  Not very difficult, but not real easy either.
Happily living in Puna

drck1000

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2017, 10:07:48 AM »
Anyways. . .  :stopjack:

drck1000

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2017, 10:19:29 AM »

I know this group that does an amazing dry fire workshop.  I'll let you know if they put something together in the future.

Browser doesn't support color, so I'll try this.

Yes.  A dry fire workshop sounds interesting.   :thumbsup:


Great to be back on the range isn't it!

Always!

Sounds like your referencing what I call the "Power Iso".  Definitely not built in a day, but dry reps is a good tool here for developing it. 

Liked the results I was getting on the range with that "Power Iso".  Something I want to continue to be work on to transition.  Seeing more and more of that lately, both in competition and reports/videos of training courses.  Actually noticed it more previously, but just never got around to working on it myself. 

Head position is huge.  "turtling up" creates far too much negative muscle tension in the neck, traps, shoulders, delts and back, which directly or negatively affects your grip and trigger finger.  In addition, as binocular creatures we are meant to look out of the center of the fovea on a flat plane, which optimizes our vision. This "bad muscle tension" also wreaks havoc with the eye muscles and vision over a long day.

That was something Koko Head RSO Slick and I were talking about a while ago.  Noticed the tension, particularly in my shoulders/traps and forearms was causing, well, problems.  And it was showing up on the target, badly!  So tough to transition away from that.  While I hate to use the term, but a definite "training scar".  In that case, probably a good amount of bad repetition in dry fire made that worse.   

The nature and science of human eye sight was another very interesting aspect.  I actually was able to talk to Jason at RB1 at length about that.  That discussion was more about day vs low/no light and how different parts of the eye pick up different things in those conditions.  But that topic and relation to shooting performance always seemed interesting to me.   


Hopefully you will have more opportunities to "shoot and train regularly".

For sure!   :thumbsup:

Surf

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2017, 04:48:36 PM »
Liked the results I was getting on the range with that "Power Iso".  Something I want to continue to be work on to transition.  Seeing more and more of that lately, both in competition and reports/videos of training courses.  Actually noticed it more previously, but just never got around to working on it myself. 
Yes, more and more people are starting to understand it and the positive attributes behind the variation of the stance.  We have been using it for quite some time, however those just figuring out the benefits often are more rigid about the 2 feet pointed at the target concept.  We tend to be a bit more progressive and vary it a bit in the rotation of the rear foot to help with a more natural alignment, which as you saw varies from shooter to shooter and will vary even more from pistol to rifle.  Some who are just figuring out the benefits of the Power Iso are often times stuck on being more rigid with the 2 feet pointed at the target thing.  They haven't had enough exposure to it and the why behind it and have not done any discovery learning work up on it. 

Quote
That was something Koko Head RSO Slick and I were talking about a while ago.  Noticed the tension, particularly in my shoulders/traps and forearms was causing, well, problems.  And it was showing up on the target, badly!  So tough to transition away from that.  While I hate to use the term, but a definite "training scar".  In that case, probably a good amount of bad repetition in dry fire made that worse.
As we talked about there is good muscle tension and bad muscle tension.  Most shooters are not able to clearly understand the difference and the effects that it may or may not induce into results on target.  Unfortunately there has been a proliferation of training cadres or video that has circled the www on youtube, etc that has made the "tactical turtle" appear to be a good thing and so many people have mimicked what they see.  When in reality it is a bad thing and breaking out of it takes a lot of effort and reprogramming.  Re-training neuropathways and developing a new sense of proprioception in a well developed shooter is not an easy thing.

Quote
The nature and science of human eye sight was another very interesting aspect.  I actually was able to talk to Jason at RB1 at length about that.  That discussion was more about day vs low/no light and how different parts of the eye pick up different things in those conditions.  But that topic and relation to shooting performance always seemed interesting to me.
This is always a topic near and dear to me due to the way that my own vision functions and I have spent A LOT of time here.  My son is also color blind and sees the world a bit differently also.  In addition I do a lot of heavy low light instruction so that is also a draw.  Yes, keeping the head erect and seeing with a flat plane is important to our vision.  Our color and daytime vision is optimized and comes from the center and cones of the eye as opposed to our "night vision" and shades of gray coming from the outer edges or rods.  Eye fatigue is also a big issue for shooters and optical clarity of eye wear is generally optimized for flat vision.  If I get overly fatigued in the eyes my dominant eye can shift.[/quote]

Quote
For sure!   :thumbsup:
Info coming soon, keep an eye out.

drck1000

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2017, 08:45:07 AM »
Yes, more and more people are starting to understand it and the positive attributes behind the variation of the stance.  We have been using it for quite some time, however those just figuring out the benefits often are more rigid about the 2 feet pointed at the target concept.  We tend to be a bit more progressive and vary it a bit in the rotation of the rear foot to help with a more natural alignment, which as you saw varies from shooter to shooter and will vary even more from pistol to rifle.  Some who are just figuring out the benefits of the Power Iso are often times stuck on being more rigid with the 2 feet pointed at the target thing.  They haven't had enough exposure to it and the why behind it and have not done any discovery learning work up on it. 

As we talked about there is good muscle tension and bad muscle tension.  Most shooters are not able to clearly understand the difference and the effects that it may or may not induce into results on target.  Unfortunately there has been a proliferation of training cadres or video that has circled the www on youtube, etc that has made the "tactical turtle" appear to be a good thing and so many people have mimicked what they see.  When in reality it is a bad thing and breaking out of it takes a lot of effort and reprogramming.  Re-training neuropathways and developing a new sense of proprioception in a well developed shooter is not an easy thing.

This is always a topic near and dear to me due to the way that my own vision functions and I have spent A LOT of time here.  My son is also color blind and sees the world a bit differently also.  In addition I do a lot of heavy low light instruction so that is also a draw.  Yes, keeping the head erect and seeing with a flat plane is important to our vision.  Our color and daytime vision is optimized and comes from the center and cones of the eye as opposed to our "night vision" and shades of gray coming from the outer edges or rods.  Eye fatigue is also a big issue for shooters and optical clarity of eye wear is generally optimized for flat vision.  If I get overly fatigued in the eyes my dominant eye can shift.

Info coming soon, keep an eye out.
Have been finding more videos and info on the "Power Iso".   I have been trying it for a few range sessions, but haven't been able to try it in a handgun match.  There's an awesome handgun class coming up in a couple of weeks, but I had prior commitments, so I will miss it.   :(

Bad muscle tension and good muscle tension is another that I've been finding more people either going to or discussing more on YouTube.  Rob Leatham and others.  Just wish I had more access to "free and open" ranges to test these things more frequently to get the feel and see for myself.  Video would help as well. 

Going away from the bad muscle tension and the "tactical turtle" has been a tough one to break.  I've noticed that drawing and presenting while looking at a mirror has helped me see more of what I'm going as opposed to depending completely on feel. 

A work in progress.   :thumbsup:

Rocky

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2017, 09:50:17 AM »
I have a SIRT and that is one tool that I plan on using more.  The 17 is my main training gun and one that I shoot most often, so it's great that the SIRT fits all the holsters and such that I have for it.  It also fits the same aftermarket sights if you want to be really thorough.  I haven't done that, but I know people who have. 

The SIRT seems pretty basic, but there are lots of ways that it can help a number of things in my shooting practice as well as a useful teaching tool for stuff like diagnostics and demonstration of things "dry".

We ordered a SIRT @ the Gun show and picked up some time after.
AMAZING results !  :D
It's just left lying on the couch, kitchen counter, coffee table or wherever.

    When you see it, pick it up aim and fire !
Usual targets are door hinges (SS so the reflect nicely), a small prescription bottle on a table at the end of the house about 5' high, little chicken on a wall calendar etc..

     Improved motor mechanix are very noticeable.

    For live fire...
"September 30th 2012 '1911 Single Stack Classic' competition run."
No, we don't have a 1911 Single Stack :(, but we practice the same run anway.

Simple test: first stage was incredibly basic. Standing: 5 rounds. Kneeling: 5 rounds. 8" target, 15 yards.
Second stage: Kneeling: 5 rounds. Standing: 5 rounds. Reduced size B-27 silhouette target, 15 yards.
Stage 3 had practical skills put to test on one-handed shooting both sides left and right, and work proactive reloads in between. Right handers load up, fire 3 rounds right hand, transfer gun to left, fire 3 rounds left hand, proactive reload as left hander, fire 3 rounds left hand, transfer gun to right hand, fire 3 rounds right hand.
Left handers conduct this stage in opposite format.

    This promotes the importance and ability to use one's handgun without hesitation under either-handed situations.
These 7 yard one-handed shots had to land in the blue 8x11 paper. Edge hits don't count.
There were no pick-up shots allowed for any stage except for two steel discs on stage 5.
For this first 1911 competition, all 5 stages had no time limit; just don't take all day on your shots.
Time constraints to add more wonderful, urgent stress were naturally occuring among the shootersand no electronic timers were needed. Over-confident shots - misses - also were natural deciders.
The much-touted hostage-taker shot. Two examples to be attempted, with one simple requirement.
Only one shot allowed on each - medium difficulty target on left, high difficulty on right. Distance 7 yards.

   Can't load foto but its 80% bad guy head behind hostage and 25% bad guy head behind hostage with square on bad guy eye.

   Red-lined area drawn in roughly represents the ideal area that should have been hit with one shot attempt.
Concealed/open carry proponents must be able to perform this on demand, with their chosen carry gun 2 seconds from any basic  ready position.   
   This stage was prime time to step on the gas with some urgency... 3 threat targets are taken in any order but with the requirement that you need to get a hit on each one quick then send second shot upon return especially with wide distances between the three and considering they already could be firing upon you.

   Three threats were 5, 6, and 7 yards from defendant's initial firing position. If real, they wouldn't stay still.
Firing sequence example: 1 on left - 1 on middle - 2 on right - return toward left -1 on middle - 1 on right
Standing in one spot conducting El Presidente 2 - 2 - 2 shot drills net unlikely survival in real situations, so competitors were recommended to move while firing at the trio of threat targets and disperse quick hits.
   After sending 6 (and only six) rounds at the 3 threat targets, the competitor would proactively reload and fire another sequence preferably altered (right to left or middle then each side) with 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 1 order.
   Then the competitor had to hit two 8" steel discs suspended on chains about 17 yards away. Redeeming missed shots were allowed, but inevitably meant additional time was spent making sure hits were made.

Hip/elbow shot
Hip/wrist shot


Next is ..
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/HandgunStandards1.pdf
AWESOME ! :o

www.handgunlaw.us

The material on these pages is a collection of Standards submitted by Readers who want to share
their knowledge with others. Handgunlaw.us, Steve Aikens and Gary Slider assume no liability
for the use of the material contained within.

Clicking on Standard in listing will take you to that Standard.
# S1    Insights Training Center Standards
....................
Insight Training .................
4
# S2   DPA Classifier
..........................................
IDPA .............................

# S3    Bullseye National Match

Gunsite Standards
 
LFI Standards

Federal Air Marshall TPC

# S7    FBI Pistol Qualification Course

St of IL Police Officer Handgun Qualification
.......
State of Illinois...........

St of NE Semi Auto Qualification Course
..........
State of Nebraska...............

St of NE Revolver Qualification Course
..............
State of Nebraska...............

St of NJ Semi Annual Firearms Qualification .......

# S12   
DOE Daylight Handgun Qualification Course
.......
Dept of Energy...................
17
# S13   
DOE Reduced Light Handgun Qual. Course
........
Dept of Energy..................

www.handgunlaw.us
 
DOE Shooting on the Move Handgun Qual
..........
Dept of Energy..................

St of CT Security Officer Firearms Qualification
...
State of Connecticut............

St of AZ Daytime POST Firearms Qualification

St of AZ Nighttime POST Firearms Qualification

St of KS POST Handgun Qualification
 
Southeastern LA Univ. Police Qualification
.........
SLU ..............................
Misc Standard
.............................................
Robbie Robinson ...............
 
The Central Texas Standards
............................
C. McCormick/R. Coleman ..
   
PDT  Advanced Pistol Qualification
 
SC BLE Handgun Qualification
........................
SC DPS..........................

NH DPS Handgun Qualification

USNA Pistol Qualificat
ion COF Prior to 2005
......
United States Navy ............

Wisconsin State Patrol

# S27   
Handgun Master Cert. COF
.............................
Firearms Academy Seattle

 :P

Now that's skill building and training  :thumbsup:
 :shaka:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

drck1000

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2017, 08:17:33 AM »
We ordered a SIRT @ the Gun show and picked up some time after.
AMAZING results !  :D
It's just left lying on the couch, kitchen counter, coffee table or wherever.

    When you see it, pick it up aim and fire !
Usual targets are door hinges (SS so the reflect nicely), a small prescription bottle on a table at the end of the house about 5' high, little chicken on a wall calendar etc..

     Improved motor mechanix are very noticeable.

    For live fire...
"September 30th 2012 '1911 Single Stack Classic' competition run."
No, we don't have a 1911 Single Stack :(, but we practice the same run anway.

SNIP
So you replicated the "September 30th 2012 '1911 Single Stack Classic' competition run."?  Or you evaluated the results of your training at that event? 

If you want some qualification standards, I have a bunch somewhere.  One I've been wanting to try are the series of qualifications that a buddy sent me.  He's a former SWAT officer at a department near Houston (recently switched to being a detective).  Anyways, the quals are for on-duty, off-duty carry, shotgun and SWAT/SRT.  Just need an IPSC target and appears the round counts are 50, so not too bad. 

While I enjoy the SIRT and believe it's a valuable tool, it doesn't help with mimicking recoil impulse.  Things like forces/leverage to quickly bring the sights back on target or little things in your grip due to recoil impulse are things that I've been noticing are things that creep in here and there when I take breaks from shooting.   

Rocky

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2017, 07:17:24 AM »
So you replicated the "September 30th 2012 '1911 Single Stack Classic' competition run."?  Or you evaluated the results of your training at that event? 
we practice the same run

If you want some qualification standards, I have a bunch somewhere. 
One I've been wanting to try are the series of qualifications that a buddy sent me.  He's a former SWAT officer at a department near Houston (recently switched to being a detective).  Anyways, the quals are for on-duty, off-duty carry, shotgun and SWAT/SRT.  Just need an IPSC target and appears the round counts are 50, so not too bad. 
Did you even go to the link provided and see all of the quals available ?

While I enjoy the SIRT and believe it's a valuable tool, it doesn't help with mimicking recoil impulse.  Things like forces/leverage to quickly bring the sights back on target or little things in your grip due to recoil impulse are things that I've been noticing are things that creep in here and there when I take breaks from shooting.   
So utilizing my Tacticle Conversions .22 conversion also has no benefit as it really "doesn't help with mimicking recoil impulse" ?

Memory and motor mechanics my friend, memory and motor mechanics. :thumbsup:

Works all the time ( except for masturbation which does not make you a better lover.   :crazy:  )
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

drck1000

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2017, 08:25:40 AM »
So utilizing my Tacticle Conversions .22 conversion also has no benefit as it really "doesn't help with mimicking recoil impulse" ?

Memory and motor mechanics my friend, memory and motor mechanics. :thumbsup:

Works all the time ( except for masturbation which does not make you a better lover.   :crazy:  )
I didn't open any of the links. Maybe later. Too many to look at. Was just offering more of what you seemed to be interested in.

Yeah, I would say that shooting 22 versions of the center fire handguns certainly help and is MUCH cheaper than shooting the center fire ammo all the time. That said, I do believe that you can't replace the "real thing".

Memory and motor mechanics. I took a break from shooting for a while, but still would set fire here and there during that time. When I finally got back to shooting "live" again, I found that the target showed a lot of things. Things that couldn't really be replicated with a SIRT. Could shooting 22 have helped during that time? Yeah. But stuff like grip control, forward body pressure, etc dont really show themselves with SIRT or 22 trainers. I wasn't discounting your practice or training. Just sharing that at least for me, I have to watch that I'm not building bad habits in that method of training.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

zippz

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2017, 10:15:46 AM »
A person has to be aware of the training options available and put together their own training program based on goals and limitations.  Ideally, you'd just shoot centerfire ammo everyday on your own range and attend professional schools every week.  A few professionals can do that but we can't because it's expensive, we have jobs, ranges are limited, and there are limited training schools in Hawaii.  For pistol my training program is:

Dryfire my SIRT pistol on Lasrapp
Practice at the bullseye pistol or silhouette range for accuracy, shooting half 22lr and half centerfire.
Shoot at HDF, LIFE, or Puuloa open shoots once a month to practice from the holster and other techniques.
Attend HDF, LIFE, and other shooting clinics once in a while to learn my techniques while learning different techniques and teaching methods.
Shoot at the USPSA pistol event once per quarter  to practice my technique and training under stress.
Shoot at a CGC bullseye pistol match twice a year to practice accurate fire under stress.
Teach classes, clinics, and coaching to reinforce my technique.
Attend Front Sight once a year, it's cheap and I get to go to Las Vegas.
Attend a professional shooting school once every other year.

My goal:  To be a good shooter and instructor in defensive situations.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 10:21:24 AM by zippz »

oldfart

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2017, 11:48:35 AM »

Works all the time ( except for masturbation which does not make you a better lover.   :crazy:  )
...
Listen to the voice of experience.
What, Me Worry?

Surf

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2017, 05:26:00 PM »
Have been finding more videos and info on the "Power Iso".   I have been trying it for a few range sessions, but haven't been able to try it in a handgun match.  There's an awesome handgun class coming up in a couple of weeks, but I had prior commitments, so I will miss it.   :(

Bad muscle tension and good muscle tension is another that I've been finding more people either going to or discussing more on YouTube.  Rob Leatham and others.  Just wish I had more access to "free and open" ranges to test these things more frequently to get the feel and see for myself.  Video would help as well. 

Going away from the bad muscle tension and the "tactical turtle" has been a tough one to break.  I've noticed that drawing and presenting while looking at a mirror has helped me see more of what I'm going as opposed to depending completely on feel. 

A work in progress.   :thumbsup:
Yes the "Power Iso" is gaining traction as it is being better understood and correctly taught in proper context of learning progression supported by good drills.  Kind of the way you saw it done in a progression from poor technique all the way into a Power Iso.  Part 2 definitely progresses from static situations and adresses your questions about using it in and out of dynamic movements such as competition or defensive applications.  I am sure you will have an opportunity in the future.

The muscle tension thing and relying more on the stance in Power Iso and lower or overall body position to manage the recoil to free up the upper body tension pays off huge.  Just shot a video of my 13 year old son, all 120 lbs of him and he shoots one heck of a cadence drill and the Power Iso is a huge part of it.  I am pretty excited if / when this kid ever takes this sport to a competitive level.

Mirrors and especially video is huge.  I know a group that does an Advanced Diagnostics series of workshops for advanced shooters.  They also do work ups for competitive types and for SOF guys pre deployment or just those looking to really up their game.  It often includes in depth video analysis and really diging deep into details.  These are very small groups to maximize training and instruction analysis.  They are extremely popular and have never made it to the point of even being "announced", but I know the right someone and I can keep you posted.

Working on the concept of getting more in depth and detailed video's, pictures and discussion in a private venue catering to alumni. 

drck1000

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2017, 08:39:10 AM »
Yes the "Power Iso" is gaining traction as it is being better understood and correctly taught in proper context of learning progression supported by good drills.  Kind of the way you saw it done in a progression from poor technique all the way into a Power Iso.  Part 2 definitely progresses from static situations and adresses your questions about using it in and out of dynamic movements such as competition or defensive applications.  I am sure you will have an opportunity in the future.

The muscle tension thing and relying more on the stance in Power Iso and lower or overall body position to manage the recoil to free up the upper body tension pays off huge.  Just shot a video of my 13 year old son, all 120 lbs of him and he shoots one heck of a cadence drill and the Power Iso is a huge part of it.  I am pretty excited if / when this kid ever takes this sport to a competitive level.

Mirrors and especially video is huge.  I know a group that does an Advanced Diagnostics series of workshops for advanced shooters.  They also do work ups for competitive types and for SOF guys pre deployment or just those looking to really up their game.  It often includes in depth video analysis and really diging deep into details.  These are very small groups to maximize training and instruction analysis.  They are extremely popular and have never made it to the point of even being "announced", but I know the right someone and I can keep you posted.

Working on the concept of getting more in depth and detailed video's, pictures and discussion in a private venue catering to alumni.
Had a good range session this past weekend and the "Power Iso" is becoming more natural.  I still take some time to confirm the natural point of aim aspect from time to time and particularly just before the first shots on paper. 

Muscle tension is definitely something I'm more mindful on now.  More on that in a follow up post.  That and head position.

I was talking with one of my best friends this past weekend about his son.  He's a freshman and is already 5'10" ish and about 175 lbs.  I don't see him stopping there either.  My friend is in pretty good shape and still works out often.  I told him that in a few years, I can see his son being able to take him on physically in things that the son can't right now.  Like wrestling.  Sky is the limit for him really and I see a lot of potential.  Just hope they realize their gifts and the interest and drive follows. 

drck1000

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2017, 08:46:49 AM »
Swapped out front sight on one of my Glock 17s from a single tritium dot to a F/O. I'm really liking the F/O front sight on my 17s, which is a primary for defensive and training "intended" use.

After confirming the sights were on, I decided to work on some things.  I have been doing more dry fire lately, but I also of course want to see how that translates to live fire.  Another thing I wanted to work on is trigger reset and not the "bang, pause, click, bang, pause, click" cadence.  I found that I have to be careful with the tension that can build up in my grip in dry firing.  It isn't much, but something that I found negatively impacts results on paper.  Will still dry fire, but something that I need to keep in mind when doing so.

I also made a point to work on some ball and dummy drills.  Mixing in a dummy round with 4 live.  When I last shot a USPSA match, I caught some flinches.  And more than one.  Well, the ball and dummy drill confirmed as well as allowed me to work some of that out.  Still a work in progress though.

Another thing I found that I had started more of a soft focus on the front sight.  That translated to shooting high.  I saw the printing starting to string high, so I started holding at 6 o'clock.  But when I was confirming the sights with a rest, the gun was about right on.  So I started concentrating harder on getting a clear front sight and things were back on.  So another thing to keep mindful about.

Overall, a good range session with my 17 as well as some work with my 34. 

Tom_G

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2017, 01:57:52 PM »
My body is beginning to betray me. I find myself making "old man complaints" with increasing frequency. The onset of presbyopia, some astigmatism, finding myself increasingly prone to joint injuries, a general diminishing of my overall flexibility... I'm thinking that I need to learn some new techniques. Without admitting to any bad habits, I can see that the good habits which have carried me this far may not be enough to keep me at par as the years march on.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

drck1000

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2017, 02:12:18 PM »
My body is beginning to betray me. I find myself making "old man complaints" with increasing frequency. The onset of presbyopia, some astigmatism, finding myself increasingly prone to joint injuries, a general diminishing of my overall flexibility... I'm thinking that I need to learn some new techniques. Without admitting to any bad habits, I can see that the good habits which have carried me this far may not be enough to keep me at par as the years march on.
Have you tried a red dot with a long gun?  I mean on like an AR or something and not necessarily on your M1 Carbine, SKS, etc. I have astigmatism, but mostly corrected with contact lenses.  However, I believe red dots really help with regards to long guns.  I'm sure they also can help with handguns, but I don't have much first hand experience with. 

I have noticed that my eye sight in general is something that is diminishing.  I think I will need reading glasses before much longer.  I still can manage without for the most part, but I definitely notice it a lot more.  That and ability for eyes to focus quickly.  I used to do eye exercises where I focus on things at different distances to help in that regard.  That seems to help me with focus on the front sight. 

Inspector

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2017, 04:59:10 PM »
Have you tried a red dot with a long gun?  I mean on like an AR or something and not necessarily on your M1 Carbine, SKS, etc. I have astigmatism, but mostly corrected with contact lenses.  However, I believe red dots really help with regards to long guns.  I'm sure they also can help with handguns, but I don't have much first hand experience with. 

I have noticed that my eye sight in general is something that is diminishing.  I think I will need reading glasses before much longer.  I still can manage without for the most part, but I definitely notice it a lot more.  That and ability for eyes to focus quickly.  I used to do eye exercises where I focus on things at different distances to help in that regard.  That seems to help me with focus on the front sight.
I prefer to wear contacts which corrects my eyesight for near sightedness and astigmatism. What this means for me is I can see the rear sight or the front in focus but not both. And if I focus on the rear I also cannot see the target clearly.

Red Dot sights are awesome for pistols. I can keep both eyes open and if I can hold steady I can still shoot okay for an old guy. I put Red Dots on as many pistols as I feel I should. My problem is I prefer older pistols which have no way to mount red dots on them. And I don't want to ruin some pistols by putting a red dot on them. So I have been trying different combinations of paint on the front/rear sights to help me at least see them even if I can't focus on them. The newest tech of mounting a small heads up on a semi auto slide is really cool so I think it will be the next mod for my already highly modded Glock.

I have very little experience with Red Dot sights on a long gun. With my limited experience out to 50 yards I think Red Dots are great on long guns. But out to 100 yards the dot is too large for the targets I usually use. I was going to try using a Red Dot on a 10" or 12" solid black diameter or black outline target out to 100 yards but I took the sight off of it before I attempted to try this.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

drck1000

Re: Firearm Training - Building Skills and Breaking Bad Habits
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2017, 07:56:19 AM »
1) I prefer to wear contacts which corrects my eyesight for near sightedness and astigmatism. What this means for me is I can see the rear sight or the front in focus but not both. And if I focus on the rear I also cannot see the target clearly.

2) Red Dot sights are awesome for pistols. I can keep both eyes open and if I can hold steady I can still shoot okay for an old guy. I put Red Dots on as many pistols as I feel I should. My problem is I prefer older pistols which have no way to mount red dots on them. And I don't want to ruin some pistols by putting a red dot on them. So I have been trying different combinations of paint on the front/rear sights to help me at least see them even if I can't focus on them. The newest tech of mounting a small heads up on a semi auto slide is really cool so I think it will be the next mod for my already highly modded Glock.

3) I have very little experience with Red Dot sights on a long gun. With my limited experience out to 50 yards I think Red Dots are great on long guns. But out to 100 yards the dot is too large for the targets I usually use. I was going to try using a Red Dot on a 10" or 12" solid black diameter or black outline target out to 100 yards but I took the sight off of it before I attempted to try this.
1) You tend to focus on the rear sight?  Not sure what you intended with "I can see the rear sight or the front in focus but not both", but most average humans can't do that.  ??? ;D

2) I've shot semi-autos with red dots, like RMR and Deltapoint, but just can't get myself to spend that kind of money to equip one of my handguns with one.  They are pretty quick once you get used to them.  Yeah, it would look funny to put a RDS on say an older SA revolver, but I'd have no issues really. 

3) In my opinion, red dots on long guns, like ARs and AKs, are excellent for the 50-100 yard range.  Even further out to 200+ish range to a certain extent.  Not sure which red dot you were using, but I have 2 MOA Aimpoints and used to have a 1 MOA EoTech. Another trick you can try is using the top edge of the dot.  That is assuming the dot doesn't look like a sunburst.  If you ever want to shoot any of my ARs with red dots, I will be happy to bring them out to the range one day.  10" diameter targets at 100 yards should be super easy.  I mean don't expect super tight groups, but consistent hits on that size target should be no problems.