Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats (Read 53564 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #120 on: May 23, 2017, 10:03:07 PM »
It matters whether the information shared was ok to share. Are you suggesting that just because they aren't saying what was specifically shared that we cannot believe that he shared it? If the information is classified then it should not be published what was specifically shared. What matters is if the information shared was open to being shared per the relationship the USA has with the info provider.

No, what matters is that people IN THE ROOM when Trump allegedly divulged these secrets went on the record to say "It never happened."

Unless there is actual proof to the contrary, this should be a dead issue.  The fact you still defend the anonymous sources over known officials contradicting the accusations is all we need to know.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #121 on: May 23, 2017, 10:03:48 PM »
again what country was the originator?
If you don't know then you don't know what treaties we have with that country. In that treaty and/or policy there are guidelines.
Even if classified information was shared it is not public - because it is still CLASSIFIED!

It appears that Israel was the originator. Israel has already expressed their displeasure with Trump sharing the information

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #122 on: May 23, 2017, 10:05:11 PM »
that angle was sick and twisted and has absolutely nothing to do with sharing information between countries
I don't know how you came to that analogy of being aroused by kids.
Fucking sicko :grrr:

Read inspectors reply. The angle is irrelevant, I am just applying his logic to an extreme situation to illustrate that his logic is foolish.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #123 on: May 23, 2017, 10:07:25 PM »
Many "whistle blowers" are breaking a law when it comes to speaking up about a government action. I don't agree with your line of reasoning that the person releasing the information is of poor moral character just because they broke the law. I also do not agree that the individual is more guilty than Trump. Trump's alleged violation is more serious than the violation of someone saying Trump did the violation.

Here is one article that covers protocol violations as well as diplomatic problems covered by Trump's sharing of classified information. It doesn't mention a specific disclosure agreement but it sure hasn't made Israel very happy.
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-brennan-trump-russia-classified-info-2017-5

Again, I am not saying Trump committed a crime but I am saying that Trump screwed up here

Then you are a fool.

There are channels for reporting unauthorized disclosure of classified.  If that happened, and their first act was to inform the Washington Post, Then it's obviously a political move. 

They could have easily accomplished the right thing by reporting the "spillage" and letting the right people clean it up.  Instead, they tried to hurt Trump.

Saying they are a "whistle blower" and afraid to come forward is bullshit.  They had official procedures to follow which would have avoided the whole thing.

Your bias is showing.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #124 on: May 23, 2017, 10:08:10 PM »
It appears that Israel was the originator. Israel has already expressed their displeasure with Trump sharing the information

Where did you read that?  Who was talking to Israel to get that tidbit?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #125 on: May 23, 2017, 10:08:46 PM »
No, what matters is that people IN THE ROOM when Trump allegedly divulged these secrets went on the record to say "It never happened."

Unless there is actual proof to the contrary, this should be a dead issue.  The fact you still defend the anonymous sources over known officials contradicting the accusations is all we need to know.

I am not defending an anonymous source, I am looking at the whole picture objectively. I recognize that anonymity brings in a question of reliability but I also recognize that sometimes people tell the truth anonymously for a good reason. You are intent on trying to discredit the allegation rather than to evaluate whether it is true. Try to be a little more objective and consider all the possibilities here. Yes, a guy in the room said it never happened, but did you ever ask yourself, what if that man was lying?

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #126 on: May 23, 2017, 10:09:19 PM »
Where did you read that?  Who was talking to Israel to get that tidbit?

It is in the article i posted

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #127 on: May 23, 2017, 10:11:57 PM »
I am not defending an anonymous source, I am looking at the whole picture objectively. I recognize that anonymity brings in a question of reliability but I also recognize that sometimes people tell the truth anonymously for a good reason. You are intent on trying to discredit the allegation rather than to evaluate whether it is true. Try to be a little more objective and consider all the possibilities here. Yes, a guy in the room said it never happened, but did you ever ask yourself, what if that man was lying?

No one in the public can "evaluate whether it is true."  So you're just arguing for the sake of argument.

The simplest answer is it never happened, and someone is feeding lies to the press anonymously to hurt Trump.

The accusation itself doesn't hold water because the nature of the disclosure isn't a crime.

Next you'll be saying he cut the tags off his government-furnished mattress, making him a criminal as he's not the owner!
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #128 on: May 23, 2017, 10:13:06 PM »
It is in the article i posted

Show me where it said Israel complained.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #129 on: May 23, 2017, 10:13:14 PM »
Then you are a fool.

There are channels for reporting unauthorized disclosure of classified.  If that happened, and their first act was to inform the Washington Post, Then it's obviously a political move. 

They could have easily accomplished the right thing by reporting the "spillage" and letting the right people clean it up.  Instead, they tried to hurt Trump.

Saying they are a "whistle blower" and afraid to come forward is bullshit.  They had official procedures to follow which would have avoided the whole thing.

Your bias is showing.

You really expect a news organization to report a leak of information about a president doing something wrong? Investigative journalists don't get a good reputation by reporting to the authorities every individual that tells them something in an improper way. No one would trust them anymore.

Yes, there are official procedures but how often do you think that has worked out? Snowden went to the media because of multiple instances where the proper channels didn't work.

Irregardless, make the argument all you want that the leaker broke the law, ok fine. Trump still screwed up. You are just deflecting by pointing out that the leaker broke the law.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #130 on: May 23, 2017, 10:14:02 PM »
Show me where it said Israel complained.

Near the bottom,
"Israel's ambassador said in a public statement that Israel still has confidence in its intelligence partnership with the US, but Israeli officials said privately that Trump's disclosures to the Russians were "our worst fears confirmed.""

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #131 on: May 23, 2017, 10:15:45 PM »
No one in the public can "evaluate whether it is true."  So you're just arguing for the sake of argument.

The simplest answer is it never happened, and someone is feeding lies to the press anonymously to hurt Trump.

The accusation itself doesn't hold water because the nature of the disclosure isn't a crime.

Next you'll be saying he cut the tags off his government-furnished mattress, making him a criminal as he's not the owner!

The fact that it is not a crime does not make it a non issue.

And that is not the simplest answer, it is just one possible answer. And saying we can never know because it is classified just covers up rather than trying to get to the bottom of it.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #132 on: May 23, 2017, 10:21:29 PM »
Near the bottom,
"Israel's ambassador said in a public statement that Israel still has confidence in its intelligence partnership with the US, but Israeli officials said privately that Trump's disclosures to the Russians were "our worst fears confirmed.""

This gets better and better ....

Quote
Two Israeli intelligence officials confirmed to BuzzFeed News Tuesday that Israel had shared specific intelligence with the US regarding ISIS plots to smuggle explosive laptops onto planes, and that it appeared that that intelligence had been shared with Russia without prior coordination.

Really?  Israel, who has real hostile enemies, lets their "Intelligence Officials" talk to Buzzfeed about possible US failure to protect their information?

Damn!  Buzzfeed must have sources in all the national intelligence circles.  LOL!!!

Based on the circumstantial evidence, it's also possible the Russians obtained that information independent of the US.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #133 on: May 23, 2017, 10:21:54 PM »
"our worst fears confirmed."

you said "complained"...

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian diplomats
« Reply #134 on: May 23, 2017, 11:02:37 PM »
Buzzfeed has no problem telling lies to make Trump look bad ....


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw