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Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public (Read 11241 times)

punaperson

Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« on: June 11, 2017, 08:02:48 AM »
It's rather sad that it's "news" when a law enforcement officer makes a statement favoring the importance of law-abiding citizens bearing arms... but that's where we are. Of course in Hawaii such a thing will never happen (given the foreseeable future political climate, i.e. all Dem civilian disarmament advocates in charge). I'm sending the entire article and video to all Hawaii legislators.

I'll include some of David Codrea's commentary (worth a whole read) and the 6-minute video of the sheriff...

https://www.oathkeepers.org/florida-sheriff-gets-right-armed-defense-mississippi-counterpart-fails/

Florida Sheriff Gets It Right on Armed Defense While Mississippi Counterpart Fails

“A Florida sheriff’s office posted a controversial message on social media, urging citizens to arm themselves in self-defense,” WSVN 7 News Miami reported Friday. “Brevard County Sheriff Wayne Ivey posted the video on Facebook Wednesday, two days after a deadly workplace shooting in nearby Orlando claimed the lives of five people.”

Why that would be controversial to any but tyrannophiles and their useful idiot followers remains unstated, but a handful nonetheless weighed in. Unsurprisingly, they used the same fake talking points they always bring up to sow disinformation and to alarm the gullible:

“Some residents applauded his stance while others criticized it, calling it ‘fear-mongering’ and encouraging vigilantes.”

So preparation is “paranoia,” and fighting for your life is “taking the law into your own hands”?

Sherriff Ivey’s “common sense” approach is a welcome and refreshing change from the “Only Ones” attitudes and efforts to undermine the right to keep and bear arms that we’ve noted recently from the Fraternal Order of Police “leadership.” That “us vs. them” approach is promulgated by all too many politically-motivated police chiefs who put their personal professional exclusivity before their oaths to support the Constitution. And that elitist attitude was reiterated in the WSVN piece:

"Ivey’s message is at odds with some others in law enforcement, who argue that more citizens carrying guns exposes officers to more dangerous situations, and could prevent them from doing their jobs safely.
Leonard Papania, the police chief in Gulfport, Mississippi, spoke out against weakening gun regulations to the New York Times, saying, “Do you want every incident on your street to escalate to acts of gun violence?”"

Pants on fire much, chief?

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oldfart

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2017, 08:35:56 AM »
If any of our legislators actually saw that video, their heads would explode.

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What, Me Worry?

punaperson

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2017, 08:40:50 AM »
Quote from: oldfart on June 11, 2017, 08:35:56 AM
If any of our legislators actually saw that video, their heads would explode.


Well, I sent it to every single one of them. I guess it'll be in the news if one of them accidentally looked at it.
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oldfart

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2017, 08:43:55 AM »
Quote from: punaperson on June 11, 2017, 08:40:50 AM
Well, I sent it to every single one of them. I guess it'll be in the news if one of them accidentally looked at it.
===========
So if you don't see a news story about a legislator"s mysterious death then you know nobody bothered to look at your email
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What, Me Worry?

punaperson

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2017, 09:18:28 AM »
Quote from: oldfart on June 11, 2017, 08:43:55 AM
===========
So if you don't see a news story about a legislator"s mysterious death then you know nobody bothered to look at your email
Pretty much, but I don't think I need the absence of a news story to confirm that "nobody bothered to look at [the] email". Is that being "cynical", or "realistic", after years of (attempting) communication with these people? Senator Gabbard might look at it, but he doesn't need to because he is already on our side, at least to the degree that he would like to see an end to de facto "no issue"... anyone else... not so much ("It works the way things are now." Yeah, not one single rape or assault or robbery victim was able to lawfully defend themselves with a firearm outside their home. It works for the criminals!).
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RSN172

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2017, 01:16:52 PM »
If a terrorist mass shooting takes place in Hawaii, I can tell you what the response of our esteemed politicians would be.  Confiscate all the guns from the law abiding citizens so terrorists will not be able to get guns.  That is the stupid line of reasoning that they have.
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Happily living in Puna

rklapp

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2017, 02:05:50 PM »
Quote from: oldfart on June 11, 2017, 08:35:56 AM
If any of our legislators actually saw that video, their heads would explode.
I never did see Scanners. I got to find it somewhere. I also need to find They Live.



 :stopjack:

If terrorist attacks were prevalent in the country, would it be better to have martial law or better to have armed citizens? I vote for the latter but only if open carry was allowed.
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Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
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oldfart

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2017, 03:19:52 PM »
Quote from: RSN172 on June 11, 2017, 01:16:52 PM
If a terrorist mass shooting takes place in Hawaii, I can tell you what the response of our esteemed politicians would be.  Confiscate all the guns from the law abiding citizens so terrorists will not be able to get guns.  That is the stupid line of reasoning that they have.
.....
Hahaha that's funny.....

Oh wait a minute, on second thought maybe that's not so funny. :o
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What, Me Worry?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2017, 03:20:35 PM »
Quote from: rklapp on June 11, 2017, 02:05:50 PM
I never did see Scanners. I got to find it somewhere. I also need to find They Live.



 :stopjack:

If terrorist attacks were prevalent in the country, would it be better to have martial law or better to have armed citizens? I vote for the latter but only if open carry was allowed.

I was unaware the two are mutually exclusive/  Are they?

I don't believe the government needs to disarm the populace to declare martial law.

Quote
Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normally civilian functions of government, especially in response
to a temporary emergency such as invasion or major disaster, or in occupied territory.

Martial law can be used by governments to enforce their rule over the public. Such incidents may occur after a
coup d'état (Thailand in 2006 and 2014); when threatened by popular protest (China, Tiananmen Square protests
of 1989, 2009's Iranian Green Movement that led to the takeover by Revolutionary Guards); to suppress political
opposition (Poland in 1981); or to stabilize insurrections or perceived insurrections (Canada, The October Crisis of
1970). Martial law may be declared in cases of major natural disasters; however, most countries use a different legal
construct, such as a state of emergency.

Martial law has also been imposed during conflicts, and in cases of occupations, where the absence of any other civil
government provides for an unstable population. Examples of this form of military rule include post World War II
reconstruction in Germany and Japan as well as the Southern Reconstruction following the U.S. Civil War.

Typically, the imposition of martial law accompanies curfews; the suspension of civil law, civil rights, and habeas corpus;
and the application or extension of military law or military justice to civilians. Civilians defying martial law may be
subjected to military tribunal (court-martial).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2017, 03:53:38 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on June 11, 2017, 03:20:35 PM
I don't believe the government needs to disarm the populace to declare martial law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law
They don't need to do anything at all (such as declare martial law) to confiscate firearms from law-abiding citizens except confiscate firearms from law-abiding citizens, usually with at least four "assault rifles" pointed at the law-abiding citizen.

And if anyone thinks that law passed by the Hawaii legislature that would theoretically prevent law enforcement from doing so in "extraordinary circumstances" thinks that would stop them... i've got a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. the cops here already violate the law on a daily basis, what makes anyone think they'd obey that law under those ("natural disaster", etc.) circumstances?

See: Katrina (martial law was NOT declared).

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2017, 04:59:13 PM »
I'm sure some people are stupid enough to try, but if a full confiscation is announced, I predict the state will be causing more problems than they would be preventing.

They might be able to suspend certain rights, but the logistics and risks involved in taking hundreds of thousands of guns with the understanding they will have to store and eventually return them is more than the state would be capable of doing in the midst of whatever emergency they are trying to manage.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

London808

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2017, 05:21:34 PM »
It's against state law to seize/confiscate guns during a state of emergency.
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"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2017, 05:28:48 PM »
Quote from: London808 on June 11, 2017, 05:21:34 PM
It's against state law to seize/confiscate guns during a state of emergency.

Quote from: punaperson on June 11, 2017, 03:53:38 PM

And if anyone thinks that law passed by the Hawaii legislature that would theoretically prevent law enforcement from doing so in "extraordinary circumstances" thinks that would stop them... i've got a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. the cops here already violate the law on a daily basis, what makes anyone think they'd obey that law under those ("natural disaster", etc.) circumstances?

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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2017, 05:32:43 PM »
Quote from: London808 on June 11, 2017, 05:21:34 PM
It's against state law to seize/confiscate guns during a state of emergency.
That's why I mentioned that that law (passed in Hawaii and numerous other states post-Katrina fiasco), like so many others they violate, would likely be violated. You of all people should know that. When you told them they were violating the law in your case, did they then say, "Oh, okay. Never mind. We'll do it your way."? No. They continued to violate the law until they were ordered by a court to follow the law. In the case of an "emergency" where they decide to confiscate some, any, or all guns it will be too late by the time you get your weapons back via court order, if you ever do, for self-defense during the "emergency". I'm just sayin'... :shaka:
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RSN172

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2017, 06:52:31 PM »
Quote from: London808 on June 11, 2017, 05:21:34 PM
It's against state law to seize/confiscate guns during a state of emergency.

And we all know that like us, the powers that be obey the law.

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Happily living in Puna

changemyoil66

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2017, 08:57:22 AM »
The only pro 2a law passed in a while is the one where police cant seize guns during a state of emergency.  However, does HPD know this?  Or will they just follow orders.

I have printed out the entire HRS134 because if there is a state of emergency, there probably won't be any power so I can't pull it up online.  So this way I can show them what the law is.  But if push comes to shove, I would surrender my firearms if they came to my door because I will lose if I fight back even if I'm right.  And since Hawaii is such a close community, I wouldn't use force against HPD because odds are that's someone I knows cousin, uncle, dad, etc...that I know.

I mean look at the issues many people have with just at HPD registration.  Members even print out what the laws say but still get denied.  (Shockwave)  So imagine at time of disaster.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2017, 09:13:08 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on June 13, 2017, 08:57:22 AM
The only pro 2a law passed in a while is the one where police cant seize guns during a state of emergency.  However, does HPD know this?  Or will they just follow orders.

I have printed out the entire HRS134 because if there is a state of emergency, there probably won't be any power so I can't pull it up online.  So this way I can show them what the law is.  But if push comes to shove, I would surrender my firearms if they came to my door because I will lose if I fight back even if I'm right.  And since Hawaii is such a close community, I wouldn't use force against HPD because odds are that's someone I knows cousin, uncle, dad, etc...that I know.

I mean look at the issues many people have with just at HPD registration.  Members even print out what the laws say but still get denied.  (Shockwave)  So imagine at time of disaster.

If the police show up to my home and try to take my guns, they'll need a specific warrant signed by a judge before I open my safe.  I'm not going to be disarmed by the police if I'm not breaking any laws.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2017, 09:37:13 AM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on June 13, 2017, 09:13:08 AM
If the police show up to my home and try to take my guns, they'll need a specific warrant signed by a judge before I open my safe.  I'm not going to be disarmed by the police if I'm not breaking any laws.
Well, we're getting way ahead of ourselves here, but...

As in the case of the "Boston Marathon Bombers" where police did house to house searches without any warrants of any kind they used the "exigent circumstances" rationale to avoid the warrant and due process "impediments". In other words, if they SAY there are "exigent circumstances", there ARE "exigent circumstances", and they can pretty much do whatever they want with impunity, both at the moment, and likely in any future litigation.

In an "emergency" they could either have "safe cracking" tools with them, or arrest/"detain" the legal owner of the firearms in question and/or any other individuals they "suspect" might have access to the contents of the safe.

I don't think there is anything to worry about, because it can't happen here.  :rofl:
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2017, 02:02:48 PM »
Quote from: punaperson on June 13, 2017, 09:37:13 AM
Well, we're getting way ahead of ourselves here, but...

As in the case of the "Boston Marathon Bombers" where police did house to house searches without any warrants of any kind they used the "exigent circumstances" rationale to avoid the warrant and due process "impediments". In other words, if they SAY there are "exigent circumstances", there ARE "exigent circumstances", and they can pretty much do whatever they want with impunity, both at the moment, and likely in any future litigation.

In an "emergency" they could either have "safe cracking" tools with them, or arrest/"detain" the legal owner of the firearms in question and/or any other individuals they "suspect" might have access to the contents of the safe.

I don't think there is anything to worry about, because it can't happen here.  :rofl:

There's nothing exigent ("pressing; demanding")  about a locked safe holding legally-owned firearms and other property.

I'd almost welcome them destroying my safe then proving exigent anything.  I can use the windfall from the lawsuit.  The state, city & county, and police dept have deep pockets!

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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: Florida Sheriff Calls for More Armed Citizens in Public
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2017, 07:13:33 PM »
If forced disarmament ever came about, I am sure it will happen on Oahu first and I would hear about it long before they came door to door in Puna.  By that time they wouldn't find any guns or ammo on my property.  Good luck trying to find them in the bushes, forests and lava tubes of Puna.
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Happily living in Puna
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