"dozens and sometimes hundreds of ineligible people in Hawaii still apply for permits (sic) each year"

Wasn't that what RapBack was for?  I recall Maj Robinson saying a few ineligible people each year apply and are denied.  Now they are saying hundreds?


http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/06/30/hawaii-news/law-requires-officials-be-alerted-when-gun-permits-are-denied/

"Gov. David Ige signed a bill Thursday to raise a “red flag” to alert law enforcement officials whenever people who are prohibited from owning a firearm apply for a gun permit anyway and are rejected.

Hawaii prohibits convicted felons, convicted domestic abusers and severely mentally ill people from owning guns, but dozens and sometimes hundreds of ineligible people in Hawaii still apply for permission to own one each year.

House Bill 459, which Ige signed into law Thursday at the state Capitol, requires that police notify the state attorney general, the county prosecutor, the U.S. attorney and the director of the state Department of Public Safety when an application for a firearm is rejected."

and then what do they do after they've been denied?
press charges or something?

sorry, I can't read the rest of the story.  I can't log in. 

So someone applies for a permit with HPD and if denied, HPD will have to notify HPD?

well ok then...

So HPD notifies all these offices....then what are they supposed to do?

They can't arrest them.
They can't put them under 24/7 surveillance.

Somebody please explain to me what is the point?

well ok then...

So HPD notifies all these offices....then what are they supposed to do?

They can't arrest them.
They can't put them under 24/7 surveillance.

Somebody please explain to me what is the point?

Public safety. Just doing their job. Making sure they make it home safe at the end of their shift.

Guess a lot of Kaiser people will be on the AG's hit list now.....

well ok then...

So HPD notifies all these offices....then what are they supposed to do?

They can't arrest them.
They can't put them under 24/7 surveillance.

Somebody please explain to me what is the point?

Hopefully they can be arrested for making false statements on the 4473.  It asks disqualifying questions.  If you know you're an addict, felon or domestic abuser, and you say NO on the form, that's a crime -- and the evidence is your signature.

Hopefully they can be arrested for making false statements on the 4473.  It asks disqualifying questions.  If you know you're an addict, felon or domestic abuser, and you say NO on the form, that's a crime -- and the evidence is your signature.

So lying on this form wasn't against the law previously?

Hopefully they can be arrested for making false statements on the 4473.  It asks disqualifying questions.  If you know you're an addict, felon or domestic abuser, and you say NO on the form, that's a crime -- and the evidence is your signature.

Addicted to what? And what not? How is "addiction" defined and verified? Serious question.

Addicted to what? And what not? How is "addiction" defined and verified? Serious question.

Arrests for controlled substance use, illegal drugs convictions, commitment to rehab programs, DUIs ....

Question 11.e. asks if you are an illegal user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug or any other controlled substance.

Of course, if you've never been treated or arrested for drug- or alcohol-related abuse, you could lie and get away with it.

So lying on this form wasn't against the law previously?

It's against the law to lie on the form -- always has been.

The feds have been unwilling for whatever reason to go after people who know they can't own guns but are attempting to buy. 

One reason I read is there is a predominately minority population that does this, so not charging them with a felony that violates probation or parole, or throws you in prison for yet another felony, is a roundabout way of giving poor minorities a break when "all they did" was tell a lie.  The gray area is "attempted purchase" versus "completing an illegal purchase."  Since they didn't get the gun, no harm .... no foul.

This new law would require that the rejected purchase at least be reviewed by prosecutors for possible charges.  They might also be smart enough to flag gun purchases by friends and family members right after the failed attempt as possible straw purchases.

Laws have no teeth unless they are enforced. 

Doesn't the law have to do with permit applications and not purchases ?

No 4473 for permit apps. or private purchases.
Or even for a handgun purchase from a shop if you're denied your permit.
This would strictly be a State thing, violation-wise.

If I'm not mistaken.

Doesn't the law have to do with permit applications and not purchases ?

No 4473 for permit apps. or private purchases.
Or even for a handgun purchase from a shop if you're denied your permit.
This would strictly be a State thing, violation-wise.

If I'm not mistaken.

Yes, the law in the OP is about Hawaii State permit denials only, but the same issue exists at the federal level -- not enough enforcement.  I think if the feds did a better job, the state would not be pushing for this new law.

I often wondered why I have to answer the same 4473 questions on an HPD form when applying for permits.  Best guess is the actual 4473 isn't shared with local PD. 

Section 134-17, Penalties
If any person gives false information or offers false evidence of the person’s identity in complying with any of the requirements of this part, that person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor,
provided, however that if any person intentionally gives false information or offers false evidence concerning their psychiatric or criminal history in complying with any of the
requirements of this part, that person shall be guilty of a class C felony.

I certify that the answers to the foregoing questions are true and accurate to the best of my knowledge.

http://honolulupd.org/downloads/applicationquestionnaire_HPD131BR05_13.pdf

It's not identical, but it captures the items from the 4473 which constitute disqualification & certification.

Private sales are another topic.  This has to do only with "when gun permits are denied." 

You can move to the state and bring firearms you already own and register them without going through the permit process. 

Will HPD run an NICS check on you for registration only?  Good question.  I know they fingerprint you and put you in RAPBACK, so I ASSUME you can't fly under the radar to register guns you already own.

Thanks for the 134-17 cite.

My point was it's a State issue, not a Federal one under the current law.
(HPD needs to report it to HPD.. Good comment above.  )
Private sales still require permits, so not really another topic as new law still applies.
Rapback. Another topic.

Interesting though.
Even if prosecuted under HRS 134-17, as long as the incorrect answer wasn't provably intentional, and a person is convicted(misdemeanor), it still doesn't preclude them from getting approved for a permit in the future.

Ex: i didn't think my childhood trip to a psych for the divorce of my parents was a psychiatric issue or I didn't think my liver disease due to drinking a fifth of vodka everyday would constitute addiction so I thought I answered honestly. Now my doctor cleared me or I don't drink anymore.

So technically, your permit can get denied, you get reported to all these agencies, heck even get prosecuted under 134-17, and return in a week to get your permit.
This new law is stupid.
Now we're on to the topic of Rapback. (Stupid laws)
And they keep stacking them. 

Hopefully they can be arrested for making false statements on the 4473.  It asks disqualifying questions.  If you know you're an addict, felon or domestic abuser, and you say NO on the form, that's a crime -- and the evidence is your signature.

You don't even get to the ATF 4473 until you have a permit.


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[quote

sorry, I can't read the rest of the story.  I can't log in.
[/quote]

http://www.pressreader.com/usa/honolulu-star-advertiser/20170630/281797104012200

You don't even get to the ATF 4473 until you have a permit.


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Good point.  Straw buyer would have to apply for and pick up the permit before the LGS does the 4473. 

Thisd has nothing to do with a 4473 or federal requirements, This is basically because HPD would get an application from a criminal and not treat it as a crime, Instead they would just deny the permit and forget about it.

Thisd has nothing to do with a 4473 or federal requirements, This is basically because HPD would get an application from a criminal and not treat it as a crime, Instead they would just deny the permit and forget about it.

I think i understand it now. So a felon can keep applying and thats not illegal, maybe hoping an app will slip through.

Like a person with bad credit who keeps applying for a credit card.

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Pure nonsense.  The same would be achieved by enforcing existing laws. HPD just has to issue a citation (or arrest as applicable) when a person is informed of their denial.

Seriously...people with journalism degrees should stay away for making laws and stick to reading a teleprompters.