Hello anyone and everyone,

I am a new member and have been having a hard time finding relevant information for my particular situation.
I apologize in advance if these questions have already been answered but I figured it would be more effective to ask.

Situation: A friend of mine has been going back and forth from Oahu to Maui for some time to take care of family, and he decided on moving to Maui permanently. His rifle is in storage on Oahu for the time being and he decided on selling it to me.

Heres what I could put together with my research so far.

1. I have been issued a permit to aquire years ago, but I will need to renew my "permit to acquire" to transfer ownership of the rifle to myself.
2.My friend must (or should?) call HPD and notify them that he intends to transfer ownership of his firearm to me.
3. I must bring my current permit, some sort of bill of sale with the relevant information, and the actual firearm to be registered within 5days of

Questions:
1. Do I need to have a copy or my friends original "permit to acquire" or registration? (although I understand it would help)
2. Once a rifle is registered does it need to be renewed?
3. If my family is not comfortable with storing firearms can I store it at a friends or family members residence provided that they have current permits and/or gun safe?

Thank you. I get that I am asking a lot all at once. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

Hi,
The answers aren't that complicated.  Main thing is you'll not only have to deal with applying for a new permit, but you'll also have to be registered ion RAPBACK.  That'll cost you $42.  Good news: they take credit cards now, so no need for exact change!

Questions:
1. Do I need to have a copy or my friends original "permit to acquire" or registration? (although I understand it would help)

When you apply for your permit to acquire, it's best to have your old permit to turn in to HPD.  If you don't have it, they may have you file a "lost permit" statement, if memory serves from other's experience.

There's no need to have the firearm or any permit/rifle information for the application.  Once you return to HPD to pickup the permit after 2 weeks, take the rifle, bill of sale, and either a copy of the seller's registration form, or the control number on the form.  The form has pre-printed numbers starting with the letter "G" if I remember right.  HPD can look up the registration with the number.

As for the seller's responsibility, this is from the HRS 134:

Quote

     In all cases where a rifle or shotgun is acquired from another person within the State,
the person who is transferring title to the rifle or shotgun shall submit, within forty-eight hours
after transferring the firearm, to the authority which issued the permit to acquire, the
following information, in writing:  name of the person who transferred the firearm, name
of the person to whom the title to the firearm was transferred; names of the manufacturer
and importer; model; type of action; caliber or gauge; and serial number as applicable.

HPD might have a form for this.  If they don't, you can use Hawaii Police Website's version and just change the name of the county. You should ask HPD when you apply for the permit if they have this form letter.  Just make sure the info in the HRS quote above is on the form the seller fills out and signs.  Either you can deliver the form for the seller, have him meet you at HPD to do the transfer with you, or he can mail it in.

http://www.hawaiipolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/gun_transfer.pdf


2. Once a rifle is registered does it need to be renewed?

No.  Registrations are forever unless the gun is transferred again.  Even then, they keep a running history of owners for the firearm on file of previous registrations.

3. If my family is not comfortable with storing firearms can I store it at a friends or family members residence provided that they have current permits and/or gun safe?

You can't store it in a place were others can have access to it (i.e. have the safe combo).

Quote

     (b)  No person shall possess any firearm that is owned by another, regardless of whether the
owner has consented to possession of the firearm, without a permit from the chief of police of the
appropriate county, except as provided in subsection (c) and section 134-5.

     (c)  Any lawfully acquired rifle or shotgun may be lent to an adult for use within the State for a
period not to exceed fifteen days without a permit; provided that where the rifle or shotgun is to be
used outside of the State, the loan may be for a period not to exceed seventy-five days.

     (d)  No person shall knowingly lend a firearm to any person who is prohibited from ownership or
possession of a firearm under section 134-7.

So, more than 15 days busts the "can loan the rifle" rule.  The real kicker though is, you can't KEEP your firearm in someone else's home. 

Quote

     [§134-23]  Place to keep loaded firearms other than pistols and revolvers; penalty.  (a)  Except as provided in section 134-5, all firearms shall be confined to the possessor's place of business, residence, or sojourn; provided that it shall be lawful to carry unloaded firearms in an enclosed container from the place of purchase to the purchaser's place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places upon change of place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places and the following:

     (1)  A place of repair;

     (2)  A target range;

     (3)  A licensed dealer's place of business;

     (4)  An organized, scheduled firearms show or exhibit;

     (5)  A place of formal hunter or firearm use training or instruction; or

     (6)  A police station.

 

That pretty much requires you to store it at your home in most cases.  Gun shops can store them for you.  They do that all the time while waiting for the buyers to produce a permit to acquire.  I don't know if / how much they would charge for storage.  Might be worth asking around.

One last thing.  If you rent your home or apartment, make sure the landlord doesn't have a "gun free" policy or "no firearms" clause in the lease.  If he sees a rifle case, it could cause you problems.


Thank you. I get that I am asking a lot all at once. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

Welcome to 2ahi kuemoto

Good reply flap

Thanks for the detailed information Flapp. and Thanks for the welcome.

- I do have my old permit so that wont be a problem

I did want to clarify some things if anyone is willing.

1. Do I need to always have a valid "permit to acquire" to own a firearm?
   
* I noticed on the back of my old permit the seller or transferor form. At the bottom it states: This form must be filled out by transferor and returned to the chief of police within 48 hours after taking possession of the firearm. If used for the acquisition of rifles and shotguns only, it is valid for one year from the date of issuance.

- Does this mean that I cannot use this form to sell or transfer after the permit has expired?
or
-Does this mean when I decide to sell or transfer a firearm I can use this form even after expiration, however if I myself want to acquire a new firearm I would need to renew my permit?


2. Flapp gave great details on this, and I'm sorry for going back into this but, my research leads me to believe this is a grey area.
    If ones firearm may not be stored in a place where it is accessible by others. What if no one has access to them (trigger lock, or safe where you only have the combo)?

*For example if I am traveling to college and I do not want to take my firearms with me.

And you will be entered into rapback.
If that matters to you.

Welcome to 2Ahawaii 

1. Do I need to always have a valid "permit to acquire" to own a firearm? 

No, once you properly acquire a firearm you no longer need an active PTA.

I noticed on the back of my old permit the seller or transferor form. At the bottom it states: This form must be filled out by transferor and returned to the chief of police within 48 hours after taking possession of the firearm. If used for the acquisition of rifles and shotguns only, it is valid for one year from the date of issuance.

The back of the form applies to handgun transfers which are one time use only permits.

I myself want to acquire a new firearm I would need to renew my permit?

Yes (your original post states you are acquiring a rifle)

dogman already gave a couple of inputs, but I'll add my 2.75 cents as well.   

Thanks for the detailed information Flapp. and Thanks for the welcome.

- I do have my old permit so that wont be a problem

I did want to clarify some things if anyone is willing.

1. Do I need to always have a valid "permit to acquire" to own a firearm?

A permit to acquire is exactly that.  If you are not transferring ownership of a firearm to your name, you don't need a permit.  You will receive a registration form for each firearm you own.  That's all you need, and registration forms never expire.

   
* I noticed on the back of my old permit the seller or transferor form. At the bottom it states:[/b] This form must be filled out by transferor and returned to the chief of police within 48 hours after taking possession of the firearm. If used for the acquisition of rifles and shotguns only, it is valid for one year from the date of issuance.

dogman answered correctly.  HPD uses the same Permit to Acquire form for both handguns and long guns.  The differences are:

(1)  A long gun permit is good for 1 year for any number of transfers/purchases you desire.  A handgun permit is only good for five days after the 2 week waiting period.
(2)  A long gun permit will never have the firearm information filled out on the front.  A handgun permit must have the specific firearm information filled out on the front.  This means you have to have purchased the handgun at the dealer, or received the handgun info from the private seller, before applying.
(3)  A long gun permit is never signed on the back by the seller.  A handgun permit must be signed by the seller, who will keep their copy of the permit and use it to inform the police dept they no longer own the handgun.
(4)  If you already have a valid long gun permit, you save yourself two trips to HPD and one trip to the seller's place.  You just show the permit to the seller, pay for the long gun, then take it to HPD to register.  For a handgun, you need to apply for a new permit each time you buy.  That means for each purchase, you must go to HPD to apply, return in 2 weeks to pick up the permit, travel to the seller's to get the handgun, then return to HPD with the firearm to register it.


- Does this mean that I cannot use this form to sell or transfer after the permit has expired?

Half right.  You can't use an expired permit to buy / transfer a firearm into your name.  You need a valid permit to acquire. 
There is no need for a permit to sell a firearm you own.  Only the buyer needs a permit.  it's the seller's responsibility to verify the buyer's permit is valid, and to notify HPD you no longer own the firearm.

or
-Does this mean when I decide to sell or transfer a firearm I can use this form even after expiration, however if I myself want to acquire a new firearm I would need to renew my permit?

See above.  No permit needed by a seller or transferer.  Only the buyer or transferee needs a permit to acquire (keep focusing on the word "acquire".  That's the key part of the permit's purpose.)


2. Flapp gave great details on this, and I'm sorry for going back into this but, my research leads me to believe this is a grey area.
    If ones firearm may not be stored in a place where it is accessible by others. What if no one has access to them (trigger lock, or safe where you only have the combo)?

Only if you change your physical address to the location the gun is stored can you use the "only accessible by me" rationale.  For instance, if you are military and deploy, you can have your mail forwarded to a friends house.  By changing your address, that is your new Hawaii home.  Now, you can have a storage cabinet or safe at that address which only you have the key or combo to open.  If you are going to college in the state of Hawaii, your address can't be in 2 places.  Wherever you call home while at school is where your home is.

Remember, I'm not a lawyer, so anything you see here as advice is only my understanding and not intended as a recommendation.  Check with a lawyer to be safe, or ask HPD to be semi-safe.  The police don't always have the right answer, but at least you'll have a second opinion.

*For example if I am traveling to college and I do not want to take my firearms with me.

Hypotheticals are difficult to answer without details.  Are you attending college in-state or out-of-state?  Are you establishing residence out-of-state to get in-state tuition in the other state?  Are you intending to leave the firearms with relatives or just friends? Many other details may factor into the final options.

One thing to investigate and consider:  You have the option to register firearms in more than one name, usually a spouse or other family member.  That makes it legal for more than one person to use a handgun for range practice without having the lone owner being present.  Both parties must be on the permit to acquire for a handgun, or each must have a valid permit to acquire for long guns.  Once the firearm is registered in both names, either party can store the firearm at their home.  Check with HPD to see if there are any limitations on joint registration.  I don't know if they limit it to only family members.  They might also have some "policy" the joint owners must reside at the same address (which would not help you in this case). 

What you also need to know is, when you sell / transfer a firearm which is  jointly owned, both owners must sign the permit for a handgun or sign the bill of sale and notice to HPD for a long gun.  That can be a pain if both owners have different work schedules, or if one is deployed or on vacation.  A power of attorney can let one person sign for both, but that takes planning ahead and a lawyer.

Questions on the Rapback- if my permit is not expired and I renew it before the expiration date, do I need a Rapback check also?


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Questions on the Rapback- if my permit is not expired and I renew it before the expiration date, do I need a Rapback check also?

yes

Thanks for the reply. That sucks, so much for the 2nd amendment!


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Questions on the Rapback- if my permit is not expired and I renew it before the expiration date, do I need a Rapback check also?

If you use your currently valid permit to acquire a firearm you will be enrolled in rapback when you register the firearm and charged a one time $42 fee. Rapback is not a "check", it is an enrollment into a federal database.

https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rap-Back-Facts-Sheet-Final-12-7-16-002.pdf

I ordered my VEPR around Thanksgiving and didn't recieve it until the 12th so now I'm an unhappy participant.

Thanks everyone for all the input it definitely gave me more confidence in my first purchase. I just went to renew my permit today and everything went smooth. I did pay for the Rapback so I'm guessing I wont have to pay when I go down to register the gun later.


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Thanks everyone for all the input it definitely gave me more confidence in my first purchase. I just went to renew my permit today and everything went smooth. I did pay for the Rapback so I'm guessing I wont have to pay when I go down to register the gun later.


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yes, once you pay the $42, no need pay again.

yes, once you pay the $42, no need pay again.

Unless they want to charge it again, in which case the law allows them to charge it for every firearm.