CMP 1911 sales rules require 2 NICS checks:  1 by CMP before shipping, and 1 by the receiving FFL before the buyer picks it up -- like something is going to change during shipping?

I can see them wanting to avoid a certain number being returned when/if a buyer fails the NICS check, so running one before shipping could save them a few headaches.  It also covers them from sending to states that don't run NICS checks for purchases by CCW permit holders.

FFL 03 C&R seems to be given no consideration at all, even though the pistols > 50 years old are legally C&R eligible.

It was stated elsewhere that CMP is being extra cautious due to the liberal outcry over the sensitive nature of the handguns     And likely they want to avoid any bad publicity over one of these guns being used in a crime, and proper checks not being done.  The program will be evaluated after a year or two, and they want it to continue until all the guns are disbursed.

All good points about the NICS system.

Don't mind all the careful background checks et al, but the price tag I can't see, and also the explanation for that high price tag....  Very concerning.  So only rich people are allowed to own this piece of history?  Not in the spirit of the CMP IMO.  But CMP has become a rich person pursuit for a while now, so not really surprised, as with most all shooting sports nowadays.  Soon it'll be like Britain, where only the elite can even afford to get into a shooting sport. 

Call me a hater, but that's the facts.

Don't mind all the careful background checks et al, but the price tag I can't see, and also the explanation for that high price tag....  Very concerning.  So only rich people are allowed to own this piece of history?  Not in the spirit of the CMP IMO.  But CMP has become a rich person pursuit for a while now, so not really surprised, as with most all shooting sports nowadays.  Soon it'll be like Britain, where only the elite can even afford to get into a shooting sport. 

Call me a hater, but that's the facts.

Understand your frustration but the market dictated prices. Govt. marked 1911s like these offerings are small and like any other commodity the market has priced them. Similar to the housing market. I always wanted real estate on top of a hill with an infinity pool...in Hawaii. I need some serious $$$ to make that wish come true. I remember in the mid 1990s, M1s were as low as $300. I should have picked one up. Some older shooters remember when ammo was given to you in EIC matches. That has long dried up.

Since the privatization of the CMP they now act like a quasi non-profit corporation with little support from the govt. Selling govt. guns to civilians? People have been conditioned to think it is wrong. They can't remember a time when other countries were begging us for arms.
I was just talking about this over on nationalmatch.us. Their directors get paid six figure salaries.

"On 11/7/2017 at 5:12 AM, jetjock said:

I noticed a couple of things about CMPs 990.  Judy Ligurski works from Wyoming 40 hours a week with a salary of $381,441 and Charlie Maddox, Chairman Emeritus works 40 hours a week for CMP for $230,111 while the missing ingredient is Gary Anderson.  I did not find him listed anywhere on the 990.  Does he work at CMP or is he retired and draws a retirement from CMP. Either way he is not listed anywhere.

Jetjock"

The CMP is trying to exist beyond selling surplus govt shooting stuff as past administrations weren't as supportive compared to its heydays.
Gone are the days of shooting competitions where there were hundreds of shooters.
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/10/25/m1s-m1911a1s-m9s-cmp-looks-beyond-the-finite-supply-of-milsurp/

Besides how many of you plan to actively shoot with these 1911s if you were to get one? How about those of you that got M1s, do you actively shoot them? In competitions? We have one at the end of this week. Lets see them!
I can guess that most people will just collect them and not shoot them at all.
I shoot mine in bullseye matches.
From what I heard from the former CDR of the AMU - some 1911s may have been issued to the 18 series, some may not. Those that were issued to SF were massaged short of NM conditioning. I don't think they will be worth the $1k range for a shooter. A Les Baer is a better looking shooter. But hey, a collector may be willing to drop the $$. Look at what an XM3 brought in: http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=2178&n=XM-3-Sniper-Rifle-S6544662

Don't mind all the careful background checks et al, but the price tag I can't see, and also the explanation for that high price tag....  Very concerning.  So only rich people are allowed to own this piece of history?  Not in the spirit of the CMP IMO.  But CMP has become a rich person pursuit for a while now, so not really surprised, as with most all shooting sports nowadays.  Soon it'll be like Britain, where only the elite can even afford to get into a shooting sport. 

Call me a hater, but that's the facts.

Yeah, if you look at their mission, it's not to generate a profit for itself or only allow people with the most financial means to purchase (and $1000 is really expensive for a handgun that functions no better than one less than half its cost).  Setting a prohibitively high cost will ensure only current gun enthusiasts and dealers with the financial means will buy.  Also note that because this is a handgun, and they're forcing the FFL route, you're going to have to pay the high FFL fee, whereas with the M1 garand, you don't.

ABOUT THE CMP

To instruct citizens of the United States in marksmanship;
To promote practice and safety in the use of firearms;
To conduct competitions in the use of firearms and to award trophies, prizes, badges, and other insignia to competitors.
The law specifically states: In carrying out the Civilian Marksmanship Program, the corporation shall give priority to activities that benefit firearms safety, training, and competition for youth and that reach as many youth participants as possible.

I am amazed at those CMP salaries as well and I asked. Some point made to me is that when compared to similar non profits those salaries are on par. Some positions are also political.
Looking at the main shooting sports that CMP is promoting is plain old vanilla marksmanship centric. Maybe that's the stale point.
The Wimbledon Cup is not as highly publicized or well known as current action shooting sports nor is high power, national match shooting. Few people venture out and commit to shooting at distance in a shooting jacket, under rain or summer sun. Besides, its a bear to haul 6 foot tall targets.

Yeah, if you look at their mission, it's not to generate a profit for itself or only allow people with the most financial means to purchase (and $1000 is really expensive for a handgun that functions no better than one less than half its cost).  Setting a prohibitively high cost will ensure only current gun enthusiasts and dealers with the financial means will buy.  Also note that because this is a handgun, and they're forcing the FFL route, you're going to have to pay the high FFL fee, whereas with the M1 garand, you don't.

ABOUT THE CMP

To instruct citizens of the United States in marksmanship;
To promote practice and safety in the use of firearms;
To conduct competitions in the use of firearms and to award trophies, prizes, badges, and other insignia to competitors.
The law specifically states: In carrying out the Civilian Marksmanship Program, the corporation shall give priority to activities that benefit firearms safety, training, and competition for youth and that reach as many youth participants as possible.

the sale of those surplus firearms is what drives those programs.
As I mentioned before, the issue of selling to active shooters versus selling to collectors and/or flippers is an argument of contention. The CMP has been struggling to keep shooting competitions and programs afloat. Hence, the recent EIC rule changes. There were hundreds of thousands of M1s sold over the years. If those M1s showed up at matches the CMP and the shooting community would be in a better light. That's why there is a requirement to shoot so many rounds before buying a CMP firearms - with the exception of military.

I used to shoot my dad’s CMP 1903 often. At least when I’d take him shooting. That gun was really fun to shoot. I’d shoot his CMP Garand as well if we had more ammo.

If I could get a CMP 1911 for a reasonable price. Say 600 or less, he’ll yes I would shoot it! 

Yeah, if you look at their mission, it's not to generate a profit for itself or only allow people with the most financial means to purchase (and $1000 is really expensive for a handgun that functions no better than one less than half its cost).  Setting a prohibitively high cost will ensure only current gun enthusiasts and dealers with the financial means will buy.  Also note that because this is a handgun, and they're forcing the FFL route, you're going to have to pay the high FFL fee, whereas with the M1 garand, you don't.

ABOUT THE CMP

To instruct citizens of the United States in marksmanship;
To promote practice and safety in the use of firearms;
To conduct competitions in the use of firearms and to award trophies, prizes, badges, and other insignia to competitors.
The law specifically states: In carrying out the Civilian Marksmanship Program, the corporation shall give priority to activities that benefit firearms safety, training, and competition for youth and that reach as many youth participants as possible.

I agree with what Ren said.  The CMP funds all of the training and safety programs through firearms sales.  The CMP's goal isn't to to sell firearms, it actually wants to get out of the firearms business.  Secondly, they are required to sell their firearms at market price.  See it as you're making a donation to the shooting community and you get a bonus firearm.

I used to shoot my dad’s CMP 1903 often. At least when I’d take him shooting. That gun was really fun to shoot. I’d shoot his CMP Garand as well if we had more ammo.

If I could get a CMP 1911 for a reasonable price. Say 600 or less, he’ll yes I would shoot it!

45 acp ammo is a lot more reasonable in price, especially if you're reloading.  I'm pretty sure it can be done for $0.15  or less a round if you're reusing the brass.  So it's a lot easier to shoot the 1911 regularly. 

the 30-06 ammo is pretty pricey nowadays, so most people aren't going to bang away with 100+ rounds every weekend.

I agree with what Ren said.  The CMP funds all of the training and safety programs through firearms sales.  See it as you're making a donation to the shooting community and you get a bonus firearm.

Isn't that what I pretty much said?  I copied and pasted the mission.  It is not to generate a profit for itself, but to fulfil the listed items.  They use the money to fund the competition and trainings, but they can't set the prices and requirements so high that they cannot fulfil "To instruct citizens of the United States in marksmanship;".  The CMP was founded for the purposes of "a well trained militia".  It's kinda hard to do that if you price the casual shooter out of the market.  Make people jump through some hoops to show they are interested in shooting, but don't make it so expensive, it's priced out of their range.   In this respect, I think they really priced the garand well.  $630 for a shooter, shipping included, right to your front door.

I still believe that these should be priced similarly to the garands.  $630 for a "field grade", $730 for a "service grade", much higher for the safe queen grades.

There are some dealers that are deceptive and buy those firearms to resell. I've seen racks of M1s for sale at a dealer

Ren, you know me.  I don't buy guns and rub them down with baby diapers, I shoot them.  I take care of them, but I shoot them.  If I were to get a 1911 from the CMP it'll get use, no question.  But a start tag at ~$1K and a lottery luck of the draw for a possibly beat up rattle can.....   That's excessive.  You could just get a brandnew colt government for ~$800.  They are causing their own demise.   

I'd shoot as many matches as I could with my Garand, AR, F-class..  time, money, and family life are all factors.

You can blame saving private ryan for the high cost of military 1911s

Ren, you know me.  I don't buy guns and rub them down with baby diapers, I shoot them.  I take care of them, but I shoot them.  If I were to get a 1911 from the CMP it'll get use, no question.  But a start tag at ~$1K and a lottery luck of the draw for a possibly beat up rattle can.....   That's excessive.  You could just get a brandnew colt government for ~$800.  They are causing their own demise.   

I'd shoot as many matches as I could with my Garand, AR, F-class..  time, money, and family life are all factors.

I do. You are the few that I know who shoots a very nice M1 . I can't afford one either at those prices. But the real issue is supply. 10,000 is not a lot. There should be more. Where are they? The CMP is in a position to ration out this small procurement of 1911s. If the pattern of offerings are similar to Rem 40xs and Win 52Ds prices may fluctuate based on supply. I was fortunate to snag a Rem 40x HB. It was lower than the market price that's for sure.

You can blame saving private ryan for the high cost of military 1911s

I think it is because we all know 1911s are better than Glocks 

I do. You are the few that I know who shoots a very nice M1 . I can't afford one either at those prices. But the real issue is supply. 10,000 is not a lot. There should be more. Where are they?
[/img]

The army has 100k total that they're doling out 10k/year.  But you're right, there should be a lot more.  They made millions of these guns, although the production isn't nearly as high as the garands, maybe 1/2.    I'd like to know too.... were they given away to allies, desroyed, junked/cannabilized for parts, etc.

From: [m--ta--s] at [ix.netcom.com] (Plowshares my ass! )
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: De-milling Halted by Defense Appropriations Bill
Date: 6 Dec 1995 10:57:55 -0500

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                         For further information:
December 1, 1995                              NRA Public Affairs
                                              703-267-3820

                NRA HALTS CLINTON GUN DESTRUCTION CAMPAIGN
                       Millions of guns destroyed --
           including rare $13,000 firearm -- at taxpayer expense

Fairfax, Virginia -- A firearms destruction program that has cost
American tax dollars and American history ended last night when
President Bill Clinton signed the Department of Defense
appropriations bill.

Backed by the National Rifle Association of America, a provision in
the appropriations bill imposes a moratorium on a DoD "de-mill"
operation that has destroyed numerous firearms sought after by
historians and collectors.  Among the estimated 3 million firearms
destroyed since President Clinton took office are M1 Garands, M1
Carbines, Model 1911 pistols and .22 caliber training rifles.

"Although the destruction has ceased, history remains the casualty
of President Clinton's culture war against the American gun owner,"
said  Mrs. Tanya K. Metaksa, Executive Director, NRA Institute for
Legislative Action.  According to sources, between July 21 and 31,
DoD destroyed 19,000 .22 caliber rifles, including brand new Kimber
22 training rifles that never left their boxes.  Between August 1
and September 30, DoD destroyed a total of 110,000 M1s, more than
500 Stevens 520 shotguns and an unknown number of 1911 and 1911A1
pistols.

Included in the destruction was a rare variant of the venerable
M1911A1 pistol.  "Only 500 of these guns were made by Singer in
1942," explained Mrs. Metaksa.  "This was an effort by the sewing
machine manufacturer to assist the nation's war effort.  We know at
least one Singer -- worth as much as $13,000 -- was destroyed at
taxpayer expense."

"These firearms had a story to tell about technology, our military,
our country's war effort, our nation itself," she said.  "The
destruction of American history has been stopped, but American
history has been lost as well."

Daily, thousands of firearms were crunched by a machine in
Anniston, Alabama, known colloquially as "Cap'n Crunch" or by a
device at a Birmingham facility called a "chipper" which destroyed
the entire firearm including shipping box, sling and cleaning kit.

"Americans who value their history should be grateful to Senator
Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) who shepherded this provision through the
U.S. Senate," she said.
                                 -- nra --

=+=+=+=+
This information is provided as a service of the National Rifle
Association Institute for Legislative Action, Fairfax, VA.

I regret not buying a Kimber 22. I'd love to shoot that alongside my 40X. Both were $400.

thanks ren. 

Just by doing some math - 3 mil firearms, of which only 130,000 weren't 1911..... That means that almost the entire remaining stock of government 1911s were destroyed.  I think there was something like 3.5 mil made.

$800-1000?  Sorri, they can keep em for that price......

thanks ren. 

Just by doing some math - 3 mil firearms, of which only 110,000 weren't 1911..... That means that almost the entire remaining stock of government 1911s were destroyed.  I think there was something like 3.5 mil made.

A good number of GIs returning home kept their 1911s.

Another bunch were lost in battle or taken by the enemies.