you brought up fake economic data, the question was about your statement about "real economic data"

Ok I see. Well a quick check shows Google's new "fake news" algorithms have buried the sites I remember. But I'd start with stuff like student loan defaults, domestic violence rates, overdoses, suicides, school shootings, bridge failure rates (infrastructure) and all the other happy stuff that goes along with a Main Street in serious trouble.

student loan defaults, domestic violence rates, overdoses, suicides, school shootings, bridge failure rates (infrastructure) and all the other happy stuff that goes along with a Main Street in serious trouble.

oh
sorry I asked...

It's good for me right now, no doubt about it. I just don't like it because it's horrible for everyone in the long run.

Talking with non-American friend today and she told me the international press is treating this quite different than our American counterparts who focus on what the tax cuts mean to us individually.

The rest of the world is wondering how we are going to pay our bills, and considering if it makes sense to do business with us any more now that we have checked out of reality.

Actually, the rest of the world is wondering how many companies will be relocating/returning to America now.  I've read some EU countries labeling the new tax reform as "unfair".

Considering how much the last few administrations have catered to the globalist agenda with NAFTA and so forth, they should be worried now.  Time for the US to take back our economy.

oh
sorry I asked...

There's political-based reality and reality-based reality. Careful which one you tie your horses to.

I'm sure you have reasons that things are getting worse like Hollywood, videogames, transgender bathrooms, the rapture, etc.

But when there's an army of homeless growing outside your door and you hear nothing but smug optimism from so-called economists it should set off some warning alarms.

must be fake news...

Obamacare gave affordable health insurance to thousands of people who had no access, then rates skyrocketed.

NAFTA boosted trade with Mexico and Canada before it ripped a hole in our manufacturing sector.

What you are witnessing is a public relations campaign, and a cynical drop in the bucket compared to the windfall those companies are about to rake in.

Both sides claiming ignorance of the others.  Funny thing is that most liberals that I see posting negative things haven't really dug into the tax code.  Personally, I don't know much about it at this point.  However, I have a college classmate that is in finance and he's pretty liberal (still lives in BLUE Seattle).  He looked into it himself and he sees benefits and savings for him and his family.  He's usually pretty left leaning, but he's been posting corrections on many posts that he would normally agree with.  You should see how he gets attacked, even from his Seattle friends.  When asked if they looked into the facts for themselves, many have not. 

Obamacare gave affordable health insurance to thousands of people who had no access, then rates skyrocketed.

NAFTA boosted trade with Mexico and Canada before it ripped a hole in our manufacturing sector.

What you are witnessing is a public relations campaign, and a cynical drop in the bucket compared to the windfall those companies are about to rake in.

Just curious from your past posts.  Are you for Obamacare? 

Just curious from your past posts.  Are you for Obamacare?

No. Without a government plan to keep costs in control it's just a bait-and-switch ruse to increase profits. The insurance companies wrote it after all, and they made damn sure socialized medicine had not seat at the table despite overwhelming popularity among working class Americans. Now the second stage of the trap is sprung and the individual mandate is going away, meaning costs go up even more. So much for those $1000 bonuses.

And just in case you don't understand why you can buy the same drugs and get the same services for a fraction of the price across any border: The false-economy now depends on inflated dysfunctional healthcare. Bring costs under control now and the hit to GDP would be so hard that all the other "shaky legs" propping up the Dollar like student loans, housing bubbles, and financial services would break as well.

To me, any kind of tax plan will not please 100% of the nation. There are people who will end up getting screwed.  I know I got screwed for the ACA when it took place.  My premium went up 150% in 2 years.  Prior to that for the previous 5 years, it was only increasing about 5-10%.

The main reason why I like the plan is because it's Trump keeping his promise and saying F-U to the dems.

Both sides claiming ignorance of the others.  Funny thing is that most liberals that I see posting negative things haven't really dug into the tax code.  Personally, I don't know much about it at this point.  However, I have a college classmate that is in finance and he's pretty liberal (still lives in BLUE Seattle).  He looked into it himself and he sees benefits and savings for him and his family.  He's usually pretty left leaning, but he's been posting corrections on many posts that he would normally agree with.  You should see how he gets attacked, even from his Seattle friends.  When asked if they looked into the facts for themselves, many have not.

I've been there myself and decided to cancel most social media accounts because it's gotten so hostile and senseless since the election. When you point out there are more than two sides to an issue then you get attacked by everyone who's identity and credibility rest on there only being two sides. We like to think of our enemies as our opposites and project all the ugly parts we don't like about ourselves on them. Say something to disrupt that illusion and you automatically get stuffed into the "enemies" bin. 

I've been there myself and decided to cancel most social media accounts because it's gotten so hostile and senseless since the election. When you point out there are more than two sides to an issue then you get attacked by everyone who's identity and credibility rest on there only being two sides. We like to think of our enemies as our opposites and project all the ugly parts we don't like about ourselves on them. Say something to disrupt that illusion and you automatically get stuffed into the "enemies" bin.

I hear ya.  I hate politics in general and stay FAR away from that for the most part.  Sure I'll chime in here and there where I think people are WAY off base, but usually only a little quip to point out their hypocrisy, irrational thought (where's Omni?), etc. 

Yeah, we do tend to think of our enemies as opposites.  However, I sometimes to stop to think whether my views are sort of in "blinder mode".  Something I wish is that others try to see other points of view from time to time.  Not that they agree with it, but to take the time to try to understand the viewpoint.  You can sometimes learn a lot, or confirm that you are 180 degrees from their thinking.  But at least you understand, or tried to, understand where they are coming from.

Like the discussion I had about whether or not free college was a good idea.  One of my best friend's brother was ALL for it.  Why? Because his kids would benefit from it and he himself didn't go to college because he didn't have grades.  So he also viewed it as an opportunity that he could have benefitted from.  But I did get him to concede that he was only for that as long as the person in school was actually working toward graduating as opposed to being a career student. 

Yeah at first I thought Macsak was just being a dick, but he did catch me giving evidence for what I remembered saying rather than what I actually wrote. Taking a step back and actually attempting to listen to him helped me dig a little deeper and refine my point. It's clear we don't agree on this particular subject but at least now there's a tiny sliver of mutual respect that we might be able to improve on when it comes to other issues in the future. Not sure if that's how it's supposed to work but it's much better than the usual mud slinging that people have mistakenly labeled as debate recently.

Yeah at first I thought Macsak was just being a dick, but he did catch me giving evidence for what I remembered saying rather than what I actually wrote. Taking a step back and actually attempting to listen to him helped me dig a little deeper and refine my point. It's clear we don't agree on this particular subject but at least now there's a tiny sliver of mutual respect that we might be able to improve on when it comes to other issues in the future. Not sure if that's how it's supposed to work but it's much better than the usual mud slinging that people have mistakenly labeled as debate recently.

 
you'd be surprised how much i agree with your point about things being worse than most in the general public believe (because that's how it's presented in MSM)
 

No. Without a government plan to keep costs in control it's just a bait-and-switch ruse to increase profits. The insurance companies wrote it after all, and they made damn sure socialized medicine had not seat at the table despite overwhelming popularity among working class Americans. Now the second stage of the trap is sprung and the individual mandate is going away, meaning costs go up even more. So much for those $1000 bonuses.

And just in case you don't understand why you can buy the same drugs and get the same services for a fraction of the price across any border: The false-economy now depends on inflated dysfunctional healthcare. Bring costs under control now and the hit to GDP would be so hard that all the other "shaky legs" propping up the Dollar like student loans, housing bubbles, and financial services would break as well.

No.  The reality (since you like that context) is you CAN NOT buy drugs from across the Canadian border for less because the DEMOCRATS voted against that bill this year to allow it.

These would be the same DEMOCRATS who voted against the current tax reform bill to lower your taxes while professing to be the champions of the low and middle classes.

No.  The reality (since you like that context) is you CAN NOT buy drugs from across the Canadian border for less because the DEMOCRATS voted against that bill this year to allow it.

These would be the same DEMOCRATS who voted against the current tax reform bill to lower your taxes while professing to be the champions of the low and middle classes.

You also can't go across the border for FREE medical care also.  Anti-Trump activist Michael Moore made a film called Sicko that talked about health care.  There was 1 girl who lived in Minnesota and would go across to Canada for free health care.  She did have the proper documents (she married a Kanuk) that showed she's a Canada resident, but some facilities questioned her, so she left.

Also his relatives who live in Canada refused to be interviewed on US soil in case they got hurt.   So he had to go there to interview them.  They didn't want an expensive hospital bill.  So if anti-Trump filmmaker showed this, then there has to be some weight to it.

You also can't go across the border for FREE medical care also.  Anti-Trump activist Michael Moore made a film called Sicko that talked about health care.  There was 1 girl who lived in Minnesota and would go across to Canada for free health care.  She did have the proper documents (she married a Kanuk) that showed she's a Canada resident, but some facilities questioned her, so she left.

Also his relatives who live in Canada refused to be interviewed on US soil in case they got hurt.   So he had to go there to interview them.  They didn't want an expensive hospital bill.  So if anti-Trump filmmaker showed this, then there has to be some weight to it.

Everything Michael Moore does has a lot of WEIGHT to it!   

It's true if YOU or I tried to walk across the border looking for a discount they wouldn't allow it. But the medical expenses (including taxation) of Canadian citizens are exponentially lower because they have costs under control.

When I went to NZ and got some stitches re-done they wouldn't let me use their national health service for free because I injured myself before entering the country. Cost me $150. When I got a particularly nasty piece of vana pulled out of my foot a few months back at a local ER the bill was $1500 and remained above $300 after insurance. For some lady with a half a medical degree, a scalpel, some tweezers, and a bit of gauze. That's what I call a racket.

An appropriate name might be Child Molester Politics:
Free candy up front, but the van ride goes to very dark places.