Mililani Shooting (Read 26889 times)

scorpio ps

Re: Mililani Shooting
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2017, 09:39:38 AM »
Ok here is a situation tell me how you would respond. You come out of a 7/11 when you are accosted be an individual that is asking for a couple of dollars to buy coffee. You decline to give money and try to side step the individual. No matter which way you decide to move away from that person, he or she decides to block your way and continues to ask for money. No weapon is displayed by either party. You have one on your person but you don't know if the other person has also. You feel very uncomfortable and tense and you think the situation is perhaps escalating. What would you do. I'm not going to list any choices for the purpose of seeing what your mind set is.

drck1000

Re: Mililani Shooting
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2017, 09:45:10 AM »
Ok here is a situation tell me how you would respond. You come out of a 7/11 when you are accosted be an individual that is asking for a couple of dollars to buy coffee. You decline to give money and try to side step the individual. No matter which way you decide to move away from that person, he or she decides to block your way and continues to ask for money. No weapon is displayed by either party. You have one on your person but you don't know if the other person has also. You feel very uncomfortable and tense and you think the situation is perhaps escalating. What would you do. I'm not going to list any choices for the purpose of seeing what your mind set is.
With only that info provided, first is get separation/space. Beyond that, depends on how the person responds and general assessment of the person. Are they a tiny old lady? Are they a heftier person?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Mililani Shooting
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2017, 09:55:34 AM »
Ok here is a situation tell me how you would respond. You come out of a 7/11 when you are accosted be an individual that is asking for a couple of dollars to buy coffee. You decline to give money and try to side step the individual. No matter which way you decide to move away from that person, he or she decides to block your way and continues to ask for money. No weapon is displayed by either party. You have one on your person but you don't know if the other person has also. You feel very uncomfortable and tense and you think the situation is perhaps escalating. What would you do. I'm not going to list any choices for the purpose of seeing what your mind set is.

You treat the person as you would if you were not armed ... until you feel the threat has increased to where you're at risk of death or severe bodily injury.  Feeling "uncomfortable and tense" isn't the standard for use of deadly force.

I'd tell the person to leave, and then threaten to call the police.  If he persists, call 911.  I might even take a picture or start video recording to have evidence of the confrontation, just in case I need to prove who did what.  I'd stay alert to my surroundings and not hyper-focused on the one individual, just in case he's not alone.

At no point in the situation described would I threaten the person with my firearm, either verbally or by showing it.  Concealed firearms should only be brandished in public as a last resort and in response to a perceived threat to your person.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Heavies

Re: Mililani Shooting
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2017, 09:57:22 AM »
A warning shot is a waste of ammo.
Especially with our neutered magazines. Don't waste ammo.

changemyoil66

Re: Mililani Shooting
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2017, 10:01:07 AM »
Ok here is a situation tell me how you would respond. You come out of a 7/11 when you are accosted be an individual that is asking for a couple of dollars to buy coffee. You decline to give money and try to side step the individual. No matter which way you decide to move away from that person, he or she decides to block your way and continues to ask for money. No weapon is displayed by either party. You have one on your person but you don't know if the other person has also. You feel very uncomfortable and tense and you think the situation is perhaps escalating. What would you do. I'm not going to list any choices for the purpose of seeing what your mind set is.

Go back inside and call the police.  No deadly force is needed until your life is in immediate danger.  The courts have ruled even if a bigger guy is yelling at a smaller woman, no physical force has been applied or shown yet (California road rage example, guy gets out and yells at female while she is inside her car).  She shot him and was found guilty.  She could have rolled up her window or drove off.  He was not blocking her car with his car.

changemyoil66

Re: Mililani Shooting
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2017, 10:16:42 AM »
Also if this goes to trial, then Hawaii's crappy castle law might end up getting updated.  Nevada just updated theirs.  Now inside your vehicle (non-mobile home) is an extension of your castle.  So if someone jumps in the passenger seat and forces you to drive somewhere, you can shoot without being liable civilly as well.

punaperson

Re: Mililani Shooting
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2017, 04:32:36 PM »
All the homeowner has to do is say that the trespasser "moved a hand toward the area of his waistband", thus initiating the lawful use of lethal force. Everything's hunky-dory then. See:

"When officers arrived at the scene, Finch opened the door for the officers. As police told him to put his hands up, Finch moved a hand toward the area of his waistband - a common place where guns are concealed. An officer, fearing the man was reaching for a gun, fired a single shot. Finch died a few minutes later at a hospital and was found to be unarmed, Livingston said."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/30/kansas-swatting-suspect-arrested-in-los-angeles.html

Oh, wait, THAT'S THE RULES FOR COPS who SWAT some guy as a result of a prank call. Completely innocent 28-year-old father of two young children opens the door from inside his own home, as he's ordered to put his hands up, one of them apparently moves in a direction meriting death, bang, he's dead. He was unarmed. Cop walks. Next. (Put your hands down at your sides in a normal standing position, now start to raise them, you'll notice that they "move toward your waistband" unless you're some kind of weirdo who "raises their hands" by sticking your arms straight out to the front or sides... I've never seen anyone do that... I'm just sayin'...).

I guess an ordinary citizen anywhere wouldn't be able to use that justification, much less one in Hawaii. Too bad.

ren

Re: Mililani Shooting
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2017, 09:51:53 PM »
All the homeowner has to do is say that the trespasser "moved a hand toward the area of his waistband", thus initiating the lawful use of lethal force. Everything's hunky-dory then. See:

"When officers arrived at the scene, Finch opened the door for the officers. As police told him to put his hands up, Finch moved a hand toward the area of his waistband - a common place where guns are concealed. An officer, fearing the man was reaching for a gun, fired a single shot. Finch died a few minutes later at a hospital and was found to be unarmed, Livingston said."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/30/kansas-swatting-suspect-arrested-in-los-angeles.html

Oh, wait, THAT'S THE RULES FOR COPS who SWAT some guy as a result of a prank call. Completely innocent 28-year-old father of two young children opens the door from inside his own home, as he's ordered to put his hands up, one of them apparently moves in a direction meriting death, bang, he's dead. He was unarmed. Cop walks. Next. (Put your hands down at your sides in a normal standing position, now start to raise them, you'll notice that they "move toward your waistband" unless you're some kind of weirdo who "raises their hands" by sticking your arms straight out to the front or sides... I've never seen anyone do that... I'm just sayin'...).

I guess an ordinary citizen anywhere wouldn't be able to use that justification, much less one in Hawaii. Too bad.

I think a citizen should be able to articulate it but an attorney would likely point out that an LEO has training etc.
In the Ewa beach situation like any other it is obviously dynamic (cue in Magpul videos). The media oversimplified the suspects as trespassers wearing black masks - as if that is not unusual. Halloween was 2 months ago. Who knows what these "trespassers" were carrying and when they were wearing black masks can anyone tell at night whether they were facing you or not?
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Mililani Shooting
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2017, 09:56:41 PM »
I think a citizen should be able to articulate it but an attorney would likely point out that an LEO has training etc.
In the Ewa beach situation like any other it is obviously dynamic (cue in Magpul videos). The media oversimplified the suspects as trespassers wearing black masks - as if that is not unusual. Halloween was 2 months ago. Who knows what these "trespassers" were carrying and when they were wearing black masks can anyone tell at night whether they were facing you or not?

Don't forget it was one against two, maybe more.  That alone means the homeowner needs to employ a different threat assessment mentality.  Normally, you want to neutralize one first so the odds are more even.  Don't give them the chance to come at you at once.  Whoever makes the first threatening move towards you draws the short straw.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw