Ballistic missile Alert (Read 139572 times)

drck1000

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #220 on: January 16, 2018, 08:24:55 AM »
Not sure what happened since I wasn’t there. An investigation into what happened, how to improve, etc is warranted instead of jumping to conclusions and acting rashly.

Should there be consequences? Hell yes. Even if the person(s) responsible acted out of ignorance, plain mistake, etc. I doubt any malicious intent, but barring that, I don’t see the person getting fired. It’s the State. I’ve worked for the system and you can’t even fire a “Johnny Do Nothing”. Yes, there was such a person when I was a summer student and worked for the C&C.

ren

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #221 on: January 16, 2018, 08:59:20 AM »
Can we get back to talking about shooting?
Lately I've noticed that non 2a topics like this get more responses than other firearms related topics. I think because a lot of knowledgeable shooters just left and don't bother to return to this site. Let's steer this 2A ship back on course.
Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #222 on: January 16, 2018, 09:02:47 AM »
Not sure if anyone watched the press conference Miyagi had, but when asked why the "cancel button" took so long to send out, his reply was that they're more concerned with the out going message alert quickness vs. the quick cancellation alert when the system was designed.  Granted one could say that they didn't plan for Murphy.

He also stated that everyone in that office has the authority to send the alerts.  This way they don't have to worry about contacting Miyagi if there is a real threat.  What if phone lines are down, or he is unable to be reached (injured), you don't want to have to wait to send the alert.

He did what a good leader does by taking full responsibility even if he wasn't there at the time.  And look into actions to prevent future false alarms.

Also I had some false flag concerns, but after talking to someone who lives next to a missile detection launch worker (job), that person was home on Saturday and didn't suddenly leave their home to go to work.  Which I would assume would happen if there was a real threat, all people in the department would probably be called in.  Also I talked to multiple people who live near the bases (Pearl, Hickam, Kaneohe MCB, Wheeler, etc...) and there was no "increased activity" that could be seen.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 09:26:48 AM by changemyoil66 »

macsak

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #223 on: January 16, 2018, 09:05:16 AM »
Red herring

lol
yeah
it was a rhetorical question
 :shaka:

changemyoil66

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #224 on: January 16, 2018, 09:05:40 AM »
Can we get back to talking about shooting?
Lately I've noticed that non 2a topics like this get more responses than other firearms related topics. I think because a lot of knowledgeable shooters just left and don't bother to return to this site. Let's steer this 2A ship back on course.

Mrs changemyoil asked if we can bring our guns if we bug out.  I told her absolutely, because where ever we go will be our new place of sojourn. Even if it's the Pali Lookout or some bush area.  But we wouldn't open carry because a shelter may tell you to leave or disarm.  So she is currently looking to buy new long pants that has an extra 2 inches on the waist so she can IWB carry vs. keeping it in her purse.  You know girls, they buy pants that fit the waist perfectly.

Rocky

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #225 on: January 16, 2018, 09:39:19 AM »
Let me end this argument regarding military presence increases target viability,
What was the significant (or any) military presence responsible for the targeting of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  :closed:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

punaperson

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #226 on: January 16, 2018, 10:17:59 AM »
Can we get back to talking about shooting?
Lately I've noticed that non 2a topics like this get more responses than other firearms related topics. I think because a lot of knowledgeable shooters just left and don't bother to return to this site. Let's steer this 2A ship back on course.
I always assumed that the "2a" in "2aHawaii" meant "Second Amendment". That is an inherently "political" and "legal" topic and would include following the government actions that (peripherally) have an effect (directly or indirectly) such as the top-down screw up on the missile alert.

Perhaps rather than having Topics and Threads with non-2a subject matter the site name should be changed to something along the lines of "guns and shooting in Hawaii" and include no forums or topics relating to "political" or "legal" issues? Or someone should start that website and just allow knowledgeable shooters to post and thus not have to be bothered with all the political and legal crap.

hvybarrels

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #227 on: January 16, 2018, 10:19:19 AM »
Let me end this argument regarding military presence increases target viability,
What was the significant (or any) military presence responsible for the targeting of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  :closed:

Or firebombing Tokyo, which killed almost a million people compared with 300k for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

When you specifically target civilians it's called a war crime. And if you lose the war they hang you for it.
The F in Communism stands for Food

changemyoil66

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #228 on: January 16, 2018, 10:36:39 AM »
Or firebombing Tokyo, which killed almost a million people compared with 300k for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

When you specifically target civilians it's called a war crime. And if you lose the war they hang you for it.

From what I remember my military history professor at UH teaching us, they didn't atom bomb Tokyo because the palace was near/in there.  And they didn't want to harm the emperor because he was needed to tell the citizens of Japan to stand down.  By killing him, it would only anger them more and they would fight us to the death to avenge the emperor. So they firebombed around the area instead.

Hiroshima was a populated enough city to send a message, but not kill even more (higher populated cities).  Then the emperor thought we only had 1 bomb, so we hit Nagasaki to prove we had more than 1 and that this will continue without their unconditional surrender.

Again I'm going from memory so don't hold me 100% accurate on this, I do sleep in a lot of my classes.  :sleeping:

But also, times were different and targeting cities (non-military targets) was acceptable, the Germans bombed London, we hit Berlin, etc...

robtmc

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #229 on: January 16, 2018, 11:54:42 AM »
But also, times were different and targeting cities (non-military targets) was acceptable, the Germans bombed London, we hit Berlin, etc...
Both cities had significant military value IIRC.  Lots of military heavy manufacturing.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #230 on: January 16, 2018, 12:42:37 PM »
Both cities had significant military value IIRC.  Lots of military heavy manufacturing.

Quote
Some of the important considerations were:

1. The range of the aircraft which would carry the bomb.
2. The desirability of visual bombing in order to insure the most effective use of the bomb.
3. Probable weather conditions in the target areas.
4. Importance of having one primary and two secondary targets for each mission, so that if weather conditions prohibited bombing the target there would be at least two alternates.
5. Selection of targets to produce the greatest military effect on the Japanese people and thereby most effectively shorten the war.
6. The morale effect upon the enemy.

These led in turn to the following:

1. Since the atomic bomb was expected to produce its greatest amount of damage by primary blast effect, and next greatest by fires, the targets should contain a large percentage of closely-built frame buildings and other construction that would be most susceptible to damage by blast and fire.
2. The maximum blast effect of the bomb was calculated to extend over an area of approximately 1 mile in radius; therefore the selected targets should contain a densely built-up area of at least this size.
3. The selected targets should have a high military strategic value.
4. The first target should be relatively untouched by previous bombing, in order that the effect of a single atomic bomb could be determined.

Quote
Hiroshima was a city of considerable military importance. It contained the 2nd Army Headquarters, which commanded
the defense of all of southern Japan. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for
troops. To quote a Japanese report, "Probably more than a thousand times since the beginning of the war did the
Hiroshima citizens see off with cries of 'Banzai' the troops leaving from the harbor."

Quote
The city of Nagasaki had been one of the largest sea ports in southern Japan and was of great war-time importance
because of its many and varied industries, including the production of ordnance, ships, military equipment, and other
war materials. The narrow long strip attacked was of particular importance because of its industries.

Quote
The weather records showed that for five years there had never been two successive good visual bombing days over Tokyo,
indicating what might be expected over other targets in the home islands. The worst month of the year for visual bombing
was believed to be June, after which the weather should improve slightly during July and August and then become worse
again during September.

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp5.shtml
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #231 on: January 16, 2018, 12:53:32 PM »
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp5.shtml

The funny thing is that I visited the atomic testing museum in Vegas and it had very little on the Japan bombings.  Granted the museum's main focus is the development and testing, but the actual release, usage, and after effets should be pretty important also.

oldfart

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #232 on: January 16, 2018, 01:10:22 PM »
What, Me Worry?

changemyoil66

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #233 on: January 16, 2018, 01:18:36 PM »
Just happened in Japan too......

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/16/asia/japan-false-missile-alarm-intl/index.html

I just put my tin foil back inside the cabinet.  Dammit now I have to go grab it again.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #234 on: January 16, 2018, 01:20:21 PM »
I just put my tin foil back inside the cabinet.  Dammit now I have to go grab it again.

I didn't know Trump was in Japan today ....    :crazy:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #235 on: January 16, 2018, 01:21:15 PM »
Friend living in Yokohama said they for evacuation and take shelter type warnings for the last two missile tests that flew over Hokkaido. Those two really shook people up. Didn’t hear about this one though.

drck1000

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #236 on: January 16, 2018, 01:22:57 PM »
I didn't know Trump was in Japan today ....    :crazy:
Ige and his CIO was in Tokyo maybe 1-2 months ago. It was them.

Kidding. I went to college with the CIO. If you only knew...

rpoL98

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #237 on: January 16, 2018, 01:32:02 PM »
"TOKYO (Reuters) - Japanese public broadcaster NHK issued a false alarm on Tuesday saying North Korea appeared to have launched a missile and urging people to take shelter, but it managed to correct the error within minutes.

“This happened because equipment to send a news flash onto the Internet had been incorrectly operated. We are deeply sorry,” an NHK announcer said on its 9:00 p.m. news program, bowing deeply in apology."

Operator error, again.  I guess this is the new norm.  2018 will be known as the year of Nuke False Alerts, never mind "year of the donkey" or whatever it is this year.  I think if a couple more false alerts are issued (anywhere, world wide), the alerts will have lost all credibility.  Again, Hawaii is a leader (of a not-good-thing, like Rap Back).

at least they got their correction statement out "within minutes", (5 or less), not 38 minutes.

for Hawaii, if it's fo' real, next time, they might have to say "This is not a drill.  Seriously.  No Kidding.  This is For Real.  You're on your own, Buddy, if you ignore this one."


----------------
and folks are getting upset because store owners were kicking them out, and closing up shop?  huh?  so, does a store owner have a social responsibility to stay open while the nuke missile is gonna drop on his head in a couple minutes, and ignore his own family and loved ones?  I didn't quite follow that.  maybe I missed the point.

ren

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #238 on: January 16, 2018, 01:32:50 PM »
So where was the Lieutenant Governor?
Deeds Not Words

rklapp

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #239 on: January 16, 2018, 01:50:09 PM »
The missile alert message was confirmed to be fake news and Trump said nothing about it on twitter.    :D
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/