Ballistic missile Alert (Read 139453 times)

s197

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #360 on: January 30, 2018, 02:02:47 PM »
Or use nuclear sub launch code drill cards (XMSWYS and have a 2nd in command  repeat the authorization)

Imagine if FCC never get involved, would the guy have been fired?
I heard a lot of other states require a supervisor to okay the release. Basically two factor authentication like you mention. Pretty sad no one thought about this considering the implications.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

edster48

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #361 on: January 30, 2018, 04:05:26 PM »
Amazing.

If this is the kind of retard they put in charge of the missile defense warning, just think how bad the rest must be.

No wonder nothing ever gets done correctly. SMFH
Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

2ahavvaii

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #362 on: January 31, 2018, 12:03:07 PM »
some notes:

hi ema does operate on a shoestring budget.  Been asking the leg for years for more funds to improve things like their software, better equipment, etc -  always denied.  So in actuality, whos fault is it that they dont have the funds necessary to buy, develop, or contract out a competent software, paving the way for such an incident to occur?  So if it ends up that they're finally allocated some money to better equip hawaii for natural disasters, that's probably a good thing.  Better preparations for ballistic missile will positively affect readiness in all areas.

Leadership is lacking all around... "someone", whether it be the administrator, #2, #3, #4 in command, the governor, a senator, ANYONE should have issued the order to send a correction text immediately, regulations or perceived regulations be damned.  Whatever method was used to communicate the alert should be cancelled using that method immediately, that is common sense.   If they immediately issued a correcting text, this would be a much smaller incident.  Maybe FEMA would have slapped the back of hi ema's wrists and said "bad boy you didn't follow regulations", but who fucking cares?  All these idiots are doing is covering their own asses and grandstanding because its an election year.  Look for a lot more fingerpointing and other BS to come.  BUT this is hawaii, and incompetence and stupidity is the status quo.

“HI-EMA is like any other state agency — underresourced and working within a system that often cannot achieve excellence,” Clairmont posted on Facebook while the news conference about the state’s internal investigation was being livestreamed. “When the matter involves emergency management, the public expects and deserves more. The agency needs the resources and talent in line with what is being asked of it — that has never happened. The best HI-EMA can do right now from their perspective is to play the blame game. Shortsighted at best.”

Toby Clairmont, HI-EMA executive officer



Having been inside HI-EMA and used their systems before, I agree with his assessment.  However, it is up to management to make the best policies using the resources they have available, and handle issues with personnel .    They don't even have the excuse of union employees because he's exempt. The poor performer was on a yearly contract, and essentially "at-will".

drck1000

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #363 on: January 31, 2018, 06:03:41 PM »
Now there’s a bill in the mix that would require a business owner AND a homeowner to provide shelter. The Lopresti guy who proposed the bill acknowledges that his intent wasn’t to require a homeowner to provide shelter to a stranger and that the bill needs to be reworded. Another danger of common sense legislation...

ren

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #364 on: February 01, 2018, 07:29:26 PM »
Now there’s a bill in the mix that would require a business owner AND a homeowner to provide shelter. The Lopresti guy who proposed the bill acknowledges that his intent wasn’t to require a homeowner to provide shelter to a stranger and that the bill needs to be reworded. Another danger of common sense legislation...

Now that is govt. overreach. In an emergency situation, we are all in survival mode. I have to provide security and subsistence to my family - not strangers.
The govt. can't dictate who I let into my home without a fucking warrant.
Deeds Not Words

ren

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #365 on: February 01, 2018, 07:31:40 PM »
now the worker who was fired is going to sue
http://khon2.com/2018/02/01/emergency-worker-behind-false-missile-alert-to-file-lawsuit-against-the-state/

So this person's mistake is going to cost us on both ends - an investigation that involves at least two General officers with the State HIRING an outside private investigation firm AND a lawsuit from the worker who caused this whole mess. :crazy: :grrr:
Deeds Not Words

macsak

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #366 on: February 01, 2018, 07:33:26 PM »
Now that is govt. overreach. In an emergency situation, we are all in survival mode. I have to provide security and subsistence to my family - not strangers.
The govt. can't dictate who I let into my home without a fucking warrant.

it got amended even before testimony started
they eliminated the homeowner part

robtmc

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #367 on: February 01, 2018, 07:33:58 PM »
I have to provide security and subsistence to my family - not strangers.
The govt. can't dictate who I let into my home without a fucking warrant.
Just make sure you do not use a firearm to provide security, that is still illegal.

ren

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #368 on: February 01, 2018, 07:38:15 PM »
Just make sure you do not use a firearm to provide security, that is still illegal.

if my Korean Komrades can protect themselves in Cali why can't I?
Deeds Not Words

rpoL98

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #369 on: February 01, 2018, 07:44:44 PM »
Now that is govt. overreach. In an emergency situation, we are all in survival mode. I have to provide security and subsistence to my family - not strangers.
The govt. can't dictate who I let into my home without a fucking warrant.
and employees, when they get the alert on their phones that they have 12 minutes before the bombs drop, the employer has to make sure the employees all don't run out to be with their families?  they're supposed to continue to man the cash registers, look up prices for customers? clean up the spills in the aisle? check for inventory in the back? etc?

how dafuq is that supposed to work?

OPPOSE in it's entirety.

ren

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #370 on: February 01, 2018, 07:53:30 PM »
and employees, when they get the alert on their phones that they have 12 minutes before the bombs drop, the employer has to make sure the employees all don't run out to be with their families?  they're supposed to continue to man the cash registers, look up prices for customers? clean up the spills in the aisle? check for inventory in the back? etc?

how dafuq is that supposed to work?

OPPOSE in it's entirety.

In addition, how are retail stores supposed to accommodate all these people? The workers have families too. To what extent are PRIVATE businesses responsible for the PUBLIC safety? Who's going to pay for it? So what, people were turned away at WalMart. We need to realize that WalMart is NOT in the business of public safety - that's what government is for.
All this is govt. shifting responsibility to the private business. The reality is that WE are responsible for our own preparedness and safety. NO ONE else is. Govt. will do what it can but it is not the ultimate solution.
Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #371 on: February 01, 2018, 10:56:53 PM »
if my Korean Komrades can protect themselves in Cali why can't I?

Hell yeah, roof top koreans

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

drck1000

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #372 on: February 01, 2018, 11:25:19 PM »
Now that is govt. overreach. In an emergency situation, we are all in survival mode. I have to provide security and subsistence to my family - not strangers.
The govt. can't dictate who I let into my home without a fucking warrant.
Exactly. There was a quick and strong uproar on this. Hope people remember this kind of idiocy when they vote.

it got amended even before testimony started
they eliminated the homeowner part
Wish we could get that kind of response to opposition to dingbat level gun legislation.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 07:49:48 AM by drck1000 »

oldfart

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #373 on: February 02, 2018, 06:14:30 AM »
It's legislators trying to control something beyond their control.
Aka unenforceable laws.
What, Me Worry?

2ahavvaii

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #374 on: February 02, 2018, 08:28:35 AM »
Employee suing state and retained michael green as attorney.  Makes sense why he stopped cooperating.   This saga is going to be ongoing and make hawaii look even dumber. lol

2ahavvaii

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #375 on: February 02, 2018, 08:36:13 AM »
It's legislators trying to control something beyond their control.
Aka unenforceable laws.

It actually needs to be more education based, and less stupid laws that the police and citizens alike ignore. 

The entire episode just shows how unprepared hawaii is, unlike other places like probably south korea and japan where the warning time is less, but they don't go into complete societal breakdown when a test or actual launch occurs. 

It is more "common sense" that businesses should allow their customers to shelter in place, as they really have nowhere else to go in a short time frame.  It doesn't make sense to go home running to your family since there isn't the time for it.    The instructions need to be similar as for other unexpected disasters or attacks.  If the missile alert goes off, SHELTER IN PLACE.  The red cross even has a fact sheet.  It's unnecessary to reinvent the wheel or create idiotic feel-good laws, but necessary to educate the population in a meaningful way.  Common sense isn't that difficult.

https://www.redcross.org/images/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m4340182_shelterinplace.pdf

Quote
How to Shelter-in-Place
At Work:
• Close the business.  Bring everyone into the room(s). Shut and lock the door(s).
• If there are customers, clients, or visitors in the building, provide for their safety by asking them to stay – not leave. When
authorities provide directions to shelter-in-place, they want everyone to take those steps now, where they are, and not drive
or walk outdoors. 

rpoL98

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #376 on: February 02, 2018, 08:21:27 PM »
"Hawaii missile employee messed up because officials don't care about accountability.
Gene Park, The Washington Post Published 1:11 pm, Thursday, February 1, 2018

This week, we learned the man responsible for the bogus Hawaii missile alert kept his job for a decade even though he had a history of performance problems and has been a "source of concern," according to an Federal Communications Commission report. His co-workers had expressed discomfort about his leadership, and the FCC said he has been "unable to comprehend the situation at hand and has confused real life events and drills on at least two separate occasions." Although the emergency management supervisor, who remains unnamed, was a union member, he could have been fired at will. Instead, he was promoted to a leadership role. "Why," Gizmodo understandably wondered, "was the employee in a position to send a false missile alarm to a couple million people?"

As we say in the islands, e komo mai (welcome) to Hawaii.

I worked as a Hawaii state employee for a short time, serving as spokesman for a division of the Hawaii Commerce Department, and then spent more than seven years dealing with the government as a journalist. Anyone who knows how Honolulu functions cannot have been surprised by this week's revelations. The sad part is the worker's incompetence and the chaos he caused have exposed to the world ugly, old tropes about Hawaiian accountability and competence about the state residents would love nothing more than to shake off. "How many more noneffective employees are on the job here in Hawaii?" asked a local on Hawaii News Now's Facebook page.

There is a strong assumption in the islands that once you enter the state government system, you are set for life. There are great retirement benefits, union protections and the ability to move up, and laterally, across departments. (According to figures drawn from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Hawaii has the second-highest rate of union membership - more than 20 percent - after New York.) The prevailing assumption is: You do not have to work that hard.

And there is no cost for messing up. Vern Miyagi, the emergency management chief who resigned in the wake of the FCC report Tuesday, made his reluctance to fire the alert author clear: "You gotta know this guy feels bad right? I mean he's not doing this on purpose." I also recall a Honolulu police officer who was fired in 2012 for falsifying reports and lying to investigators, then was hired by the state of Hawaii as a law enforcement officer, only to be convicted last year of raping a teenage girl while in uniform. Even the police chief in Honolulu held onto his job for a year while the feds investigated him for using police resources to frame someone for a personal vendetta.

Meanwhile, the strong local whisper network (coconut wireless, as it is called) has not led to any major #MeToo-style firings, and I doubt it will. It is a small community that dislikes shaming. Despite that his salary is paid by tax dollars, and he led hundreds of thousands to believe they would imminently die, the man behind the phone alert still remains unaccountable to the public.

Another problem is state workers who want to buckle down are saddled with obsolete tech. Hawaii Gov. David Ige said after the alert debacle he did not know his own Twitter password (and apparently neither did his communications staff) - a perfect encapsulation of how behind the state's tech is. It is a government that pays its employees via a financial accounting platform that's 40 years old strung together with parts bought on eBay.

Hawaii desperately wants to diversify its economy beyond tourism and U.S. military spending. Plantation agriculture kept the state afloat for the past century but is now a dead industry. The state wants to "develop foundations for an innovation economy and nurturing emerging industries," according to a government strategy plan. It is hard to see how this episode inspires any confidence for investors and start-up wunderkinds.

When I worked at the Hawaii Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs in 2013, I remember opening a PDF attachment and closing my eyes for a few minutes while my outdated, state-issued computer opened the file only a few megabytes large. It was a great time to rest before spending two hours out to lunch with the rest of your colleagues - a normal occurrence for state employees.

Culturally, Hawaii tends to reward seniority, not competence. Careers often advance only when incumbent workers resign or die. In 2006, when TIME Magazine called octogenarian Hawaii's Dan Akaka one of the five worst U.S. senators for sponsoring only minor resolutions and bills that died in committee, former U.S. representative Ed Case decided to challenge him in the Democratic primary. A 2006 Star-Bulletin piece surveyed the widespread reaction to this brazen maneuver. Sample comment: "Wait his turn! Has he no respect for his elders?" Case lost by 10 percentage points.

That is a sentiment young people (and apparently 54-year-old members of Congress) hear often in Hawaii. The writer of that 2006 essay rued how "local values" insist on deference and conformity. "If I were first to speak, I'd be called 'pushy.' If my answers were too outrageous, I might be teased," she wrote. "Best to keep silent."

I often heard residents of my old state parrot a Japanese saying: The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. People who want reform, or just to try something new, hear a common refrain in Hawaii's private and public sectors: "That's not how things have been done before." Play your role, and you will be rewarded when you are good and old.

That attitude has consequences. This week's report shows it was no secret the missile alert's author was inept. Yet he somehow landed the critical job of telling an entire state whether they could die of a nuclear blast. While 10 years passed, his supervisors did nothing to remove him from a job they knew he was unqualified for, nor did they implement any procedures on what to do when someone accidentally sends a missile alert. It took a national embarrassment to dislodge him from his job.

A nuclear reality is a new one for Hawaii residents to face, one they are clearly unprepared for. The way things were done before did not suffice, and it appears nobody who could change it stuck out and risked getting hammered down.

In 2018, speed and accountability are life-or-death matters, and Hawaii is not ready. For 10 years and more, it tolerated incompetence. It cannot afford another 10 years of inaction. This is not a drill."

====================================
sorry bout the wall-of-text, thought I'd paste in its entirety, rather than just providing the link.  Hawaii became famous (for the wrong reasons).  sent to me by somebody in Japan, from a Texas article, the opinion section, no less.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/article/Hawaii-missile-employee-messed-up-because-12543851.php

RSN172

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #377 on: February 03, 2018, 08:23:13 PM »
If Hawaii ever gets hit with a nuclear attack, I wish that wherever I am is ground zero.  I would rather get vaporized from the initial blast than survive and deal with the aftermath.
Happily living in Puna

robtmc

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #378 on: February 03, 2018, 08:28:32 PM »
Hell yeah, roof top koreans
Can you imagine the shitstorm that would fall on anyone in Hawaii doing that?

robtmc

Re: Ballistic missile Alert
« Reply #379 on: February 03, 2018, 08:32:03 PM »
If Hawaii ever gets hit with a nuclear attack, I wish that wherever I am is ground zero.  I would rather get vaporized from the initial blast than survive and deal with the aftermath.
Oahu is ground zero. ain't nothing on the BI to waste a nuke on.

Of course, the NORKs probably have exceedingly cheesy targeting. beyond "Make it go over that way, for long way"

Trade winds will take care of the fallout.