I enjoy drills that allow or even encourage a shooter to find their training zone and even failure zone. Unfortunately, we don’t have many shooting venues that can facilitate that

An example of that is a cadence drill. Can be for carbine or handgun. Start shooting 6 rounds in 6 seconds, trying to keep 1 second pace. Then 6 rounds in 3 seconds and then 6 rounds in 2 seconds. Say a 6-7” diameter target at 5 yards handgun and little farther for carbine. When you get to the 2 second zone, many will see shots opening up or even out of the circle. If able to keep the shots wining the circle, push to say 1.75 or even 1.5 seconds. Most will find that there will be a time when they “fail” and shots are out. That’s their current limit of capability and where they can dedicate some training to clean things up.

There are many videos out on this. I’m on my phone and can’t post now. But Redback One has on the cadence drill noted above, as well as TRex Arms on why you should miss.

Of course, need to proceed safely, but I’m a big advocate of training to find that failure zone and train to improve. For me, it’s fun and it serves to (hopefully) improve your shooting.

Do you try things similar when you shoot? Is there something similar when shooting precision rifle? As in how to find your current capability and train that, beyond shooting test groups.

Since the public shooting sides of Kokohead won't allow that you can reserve the action bays and shoot as fast as you want.
Obviously, I shoot a lot of highpower - chasing leg points but there is a rapid fire stage for both pistol and rifle. Hard front sight focus is key in maintaining tight groups. Consistent head position and eye alignment. I know its not sexy or tactical to not draw from a holster but bullseye shooting really focuses on the fundamentals. It's a tough pill to swallow when you discover that your applications of certain "fundamentals" were not really being applied. I think shooting in a long sleeve shirt under a shooting jacket, in the sun at Puuloa makes up for the "suck" factor enough to be tactical, precision rifle. Through the heat and sweat you learn to focus really hard on the fundamentals all the while paying attention to wind. If I'm not shooting a perfect score or "clean" in the rapid fire stages - it's difficult to be competitive. So that's my goal. Shoot consistent cleans in practice. Regulate breathing, front sight focus, press trigger. Finding your "flow" or a cadence that works time and time again is key
https://armyreservemarksman.info/2014/01/08/rob-mango-the-flow-of-shooting/
I also read Lanny Basham's writings
I understand that there may be a tradeoff in speed and precision. You either focus on the front sight or you don't in close shooting. I practiced shooting by pointing and having the target in focus for shooting fast. It works but not precise.
But anyways.
As a member of the Puuloa club we once thought about bringing the Magpul trainers to Hawaii but they were really expensive. It's also a tough sell as a "self defense" course.

Oops. Quoted myself in edit. Delete

Yes, it is a tough pill to swallow when you realize your fundamental aren’t solid. Recently, I’ve found that as I haven’t been shooting that much, that I have to go back to basics. Front sight focus, trigger control, etc. Really humbling and I do want to and plan to put time in to work on those. It’s also frustrating when I think I’m putting in time to work on things and I end up finding that I had been developing bad habits. There’s always work on the fundamentals.

As for precision rifle, I had aspirations of taking my 700 out to Puuloa. I had emailed one of the organizers back and forth, but never made it out. Haven’t been shooting my 700 much since. I used to really want to get a 20” iron sight AR and shoot the matches as well, but that also went on the back burner.

I am just curious on how people push themselves to improve. Be it more speed oriented shooting or even accuracy. I think things can tend to get stagnant and that’s where I think things that push failure points help that. Sort of like weight training when you plateau, need something to help break that and push you over the jump. Maybe that’s more mental discipline training in terms of precision rifle, but important and interesting just as much as more tactical/sport aspect of shooting.

Troubleshooting is key. Ask yourself "Why did my shot go out at 7 o'clock?" Finding what caused that errant shot and fixing it could be frustrating and time consuming. It was for me. Some days I want to throw my rifle or pistol in the trash can. So I take a break. Do RC stuff or zen out. I think shooting is more mental than anything. You are only competing against yourself. Set realistic goals. There are obvious physical things a shooter needs to be cognizant about but going into a match or practice with a shitty state of mind won't be productive. Repetition of things that work and having confidence in your ability. Rinse and repeat.
Anyways, my 1 cent. I have 10 more points to go in rifle. Been going at it since 2001. If I stop and think about all those years to get to where I'm at compared to others who legged out in less I would have given up yesterday. If I look back at the memories I had and lessons I learned along the way; I look forward to the next match and practice.

Yeah, there are days that I’ll call “quicksand”. Total opposite of being in the zone. Where everything seems to be going wrong. Had one close to that last week where I was struggling all morning. Took a break and went back on a crawl level and slowly tried to work to walk and then to walk fast. Haha.

Shooting is very much mental. As for trouble shooting, there are times when I know what I’m doing. I work on it and have almost ironed it out. Then it’ll creep back in again here and there and just that bothers me. Many times it’s that my body knows how to do it, just have to clear the mental aspect and not allow the mind to prevent the body from doing what it know how to do. A case of the mind getting in the way.

For pistol I'll usually start out cold from the holster with a rapid 6 shots, reload, 1 shot in a 8 inch circle.  Draw fire 1.  Draw fire 1 reload 1.  Work on rapid fire draw fire 2, draw fire 3, then 4, and so on.  Chamber 1, remove the mag, fire 1, dryfire 1, and repeat. Work on being quicker and also pushing the target out farther.  Then a one hole drill.

For pistol I'll usually start out cold from the holster with a rapid 6 shots, reload, 1 shot in a 8 inch circle.  Draw fire 1.  Draw fire 1 reload 1.  Work on rapid fire draw fire 2, draw fire 3, then 4, and so on.  Chamber 1, remove the mag, fire 1, dryfire 1, and repeat. Work on being quicker and also pushing the target out farther.  Then a one hole drill.

Ok. Are you shooting on a timer? Or are you evaluating performance based on what you see on the target?

Ok. Are you shooting on a timer? Or are you evaluating performance based on what you see on the target?

Timer and groups.

Timer and groups.

Do you start slow and increase speed or distance? To find failure point?

Last week I was shooting terribly, and I knew it. My friend brought his cousin along. I happened to be shooting low and left, so my friend was calling a lot of shots at 7 o’clock.    It was frequent enough that my friend’s cousin was muttering “7 o’clock” over and over to sort of mimic my friend. I was waiting for him ask about Judge Wapner 

Haha. My friend’s cousin is a little strange, but he’s cool and means well. Lightened an otherwise frustrating time.

Having spent more time recently shooting for pace, seems like trigger control and grip tension got sloppy. So spent 100 rounds today just working on ball and dummy drills. After a few sets, mostly got rid of the low lefts. Was actually shooting a pretty tight group centered and a little high. Eventually tried to pick up the pace between being on target to trigger pull. Things opened up a little, bit had some shots thrown a little left along with almost equals number of shots thrown a little right as well as centered. So I was generally happy. Still something I need to work on and will continue to practice with ball and dummy.

Last week I was shooting terribly, and I knew it. My friend brought his cousin along. I happened to be shooting low and left, so my friend was calling a lot of shots at 7 o’clock.    It was frequent enough that my friend’s cousin was muttering “7 o’clock” over and over to sort of mimic my friend. I was waiting for him ask about Judge Wapner 

wow, that's almost as annoying as someone saying, "heads" all the time

wow, that's almost as annoying as someone saying, "heads" all the time

Almost. Haha. I was exaggerating a bit in that story, but still. Most folks like that often don’t realize that they are annoying.

As a level of stress right?

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As a level of stress right?

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Not necessarily. While stress certainly does affect performance, this is about individual capabilities and finding personal performance ceilings. Like powerlifting, finding one’s max and then training to break the plateau. At least that’s how I see it. Others might see it differently.

I wish there was somewhere where we could do this sort of practice, when time is available (moments notice), and it won't cost an arm and a leg......  hard to get out at a certain day, certain time, etc etc....    wish we could drive out to the woods somewhere set up and shoot...  Wah wah wah....  sorry about the whine...

I wish there was somewhere where we could do this sort of practice, when time is available (moments notice), and it won't cost an arm and a leg......  hard to get out at a certain day, certain time, etc etc....    wish we could drive out to the woods somewhere set up and shoot...  Wah wah wah....  sorry about the whine...

Ya. I hear ya. I envy the ranges that I’ve been to in Alaska and Texas. A couple of them are “private” ranges, but super affordable. Can set up your own steel and often can have the whole range to yourself.

HRA and HDF shoots offer some lower cost venues, but once a month. There was a group with Schfield that used to allow drips like these. I let my membership lapse, so not sure if they still do it.

If you're not training to failure you're not doing it right... apparently my failure is sub 1 second at 10 yards lol... but I will persist!

If you're not training to failure you're not doing it right... apparently my failure is sub 1 second at 10 yards lol... but I will persist!

I dunno.  You seemed pretty good at the sub 1 second miss at 10 yards.   

Kidding. Haha.

Was thinking of things that can be done in terms of speed wise at the bullseye range, and of course within their rules. Of course nothing like draws or .25 sec splits, but gotta find a way to work with what we got. If I can make it to the range this Fri, I’ll try some stuff.

I dunno.  You seemed pretty good at the sub 1 second miss at 10 yards.   

Kidding. Haha.

Was thinking of things that can be done in terms of speed wise at the bullseye range, and of course within their rules. Of course nothing like draws or .25 sec splits, but gotta find a way to work with what we got. If I can make it to the range this Fri, I’ll try some stuff.

Pretty good?  I NAILED missing the target at sub 1 second lol.  But that's the whole point.  I can comfortably and consistently draw and get a hit at 10 yards in 1.5 seconds but doing that isn't going to make me better.  We can do some cadence drills next time to work on splits.  Just unfortunate we only have 10 round mags :-(