With antigun people asking for background checks on private sales of firearms, how would that work on a Federal level if implemented nationally?   If I agreed to sell a gun to someone at a gun show would I call a 1-800 number to run a NICS instant background check on someone and fill out the ATF forms?  Or would require the transactions go through a FFL or LE?

With antigun people asking for background checks on private sales of firearms, how would that work on a Federal level if implemented nationally?   If I agreed to sell a gun to someone at a gun show would I call a 1-800 number to run a NICS instant background check on someone and fill out the ATF forms?  Or would require the transactions go through a FFL or LE?

Honestly private party transactions should be handled similar to vehicle sales.

seller verifies buyer has valid rifle/handgun permit (HPD does the necessary checks)
after sale to buyer, submit bill of sale info to HPD
Buyer registers firearm with HPD. 
If Seller indicates sale and buyer does not, HPD should followup with buyer.

If a sale is done at the gun show, the buyer should show their longgun permit, similarly to what is normally done by ethical sellers anyways...

With antigun people asking for background checks on private sales of firearms, how would that work on a Federal level if implemented nationally?   If I agreed to sell a gun to someone at a gun show would I call a 1-800 number to run a NICS instant background check on someone and fill out the ATF forms?  Or would require the transactions go through a FFL or LE?

We already have this in Hawaii.  To acquire a firearm, including private sales, we have to have a permit to acquire.  That involves a background check.

The main reason the NRA opposes this is because it's completely unenforceable unless all guns are registered.

In Hawaii, the police process the background checks.  if the state only requires an NICS check, that could be done by any FFL.  A non-licensed gun buyer/seller could not do it, nor would it be a good idea to allow it if we want any integrity in the process.

In short, if this becomes federal law, every state will have to create a permit and registration database like Hawaii's if they want any chance of enforcing it.

It works by letting liberals sleep at night.

It works by letting liberals sleep at night.

If it's not this, they'll find something else to keep them up. Liberals are seldom satisfied if others are happy.

We already have this in Hawaii.  To acquire a firearm, including private sales, we have to have a permit to acquire.  That involves a background check.

For pistols yes because the seller needs to see the permit to sign it, their is however no need for me to require an ID or to verify their identity.
For rifles, you don't need to see an ID or a permit to aquaire.

Both require you to notify The police of who you sold it to, for a pistol the name on the permit, for a rifle the name they give you.

Nothing more, nothing less

For pistols yes because the seller needs to see the permit to sign it, their is however no need for me to require an ID or to verify their identity.
For rifles, you don't need to see an ID or a permit to aquaire.

Both require you to notify The police of who you sold it to, for a pistol the name on the permit, for a rifle the name they give you.

Nothing more, nothing less

If the rifle is registered in Hawaii (if you bought it from an FFL here, you had little choice), you're supposed to notify the police dept of the private sale/transfer.  That let's them know to expect the transferee to come in and register.  He'll need a permit.

The state will have the last registered owner to lead them to the private buyer if they're trying to find the new owner.  I personally won't sell a rifle if I know I'm on-file as the owner, and the buyer can't produce a permit. 

If there's no criminal penalty for doing the transfer without a permit in hand, then yeah, they aren't serious about enforcing the background check.

If the rifle is registered in Hawaii (if you bought it from an FFL here, you had little choice), you're supposed to notify the police dept of the private sale/transfer.  That let's them know to expect the transferee to come in and register.  He'll need a permit.

The state will have the last registered owner to lead them to the private buyer if they're trying to find the new owner.  I personally won't sell a rifle if I know I'm on-file as the owner, and the buyer can't produce a permit. 

If there's no criminal penalty for doing the transfer without a permit in hand, then yeah, they aren't serious about enforcing the background check.

Yes you have to notify the police department, but their is no require for you to see an ID or the permit (for long guns) only tell them who you sold it to (no verification required of the seller)

^

It's a good practice for a responsible seller, but I really think verification of a valid permit should be required for sellers.   I personally will not sell a longgun without seeing a permit.  Handguns, I'd especially need to see a permit

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It's a good practice for a responsible seller, but I really think verification of a valid permit should be required for sellers.   I personally will not sell a longgun without seeing a permit.  Handguns, I'd especially need to see a permit

With handguns, you (the seller) are required sign the back of the permit.  Not so for long guns.

With handguns, you (the seller) are required sign the back of the permit.  Not so for long guns.

That's why I'd especially need to see the permit

I sold a rifle to someone in 2015 after the buyer showed me his permit to acquire before filling out the HPD transaction form. It wasn't required but I didn't know the guy personally so I asked for it. When people do transactions at HPD, do they allow the buyer to take out the firearm from the case and look at it before handing over the money? How exactly does that work at HPD?

Honestly private party transactions should be handled similar to vehicle sales.

seller verifies buyer has valid rifle/handgun permit (HPD does the necessary checks)
after sale to buyer, submit bill of sale info to HPD
Buyer registers firearm with HPD. 
If Seller indicates sale and buyer does not, HPD should followup with buyer.

If a sale is done at the gun show, the buyer should show their longgun permit, similarly to what is normally done by ethical sellers anyways...

This process would only work that way in Hi. From my knowledge there are no "P.D. permit" requirements in any other State. Gun Registry requirements are still Highly Contested & I doubt you will get Voluntary implementation of them even in Today's environment.


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There should a form of instant background checks for private sales with voluntary compliance where the seller makes a phone call or internet request and they get an instant yes/no/pending answer if the buyer meet Federal firearm requirements.  If I was selling a firearm in any state, I would want to know I'm selling it to a legit buyer.

WHen I see polls on how many people want background check for private sales, people seem to think a background check is a simple phone call away.

maybe through an FFL?
I don't know if the BATF was already gearing up for this - the last new 4473s has a new box to check if it was to assist in a private party transfer

There should a form of instant background checks for private sales with voluntary compliance where the seller makes a phone call or internet request and they get an instant yes/no/pending answer if the buyer meet Federal firearm requirements.  If I was selling a firearm in any state, I would want to know I'm selling it to a legit buyer.

The problem with that premise is that it still is dependent on the government, which we all know is utterly incompetent and corrupt.

It's also dependent on a system that is proven to be flawed. If the information isn't entered into the system, criminals show up clean, and can buy a gun.

This is just more of the mindset that "We have to DO SOMETHING!" When in reality there is nothing that can be done to "Prevent" someone with evil intent from finding a way to accomplish their goal.

There is no "background check" system, even one that was accurate and unflawed (in reality an impossibility) that would prevent "straw purchases". A detailed plan for a phone system as described above (all access phone in for yes/no/pending) has been around since the 90s, with no interest by government agencies, for some reason. Apparently, according to the statistics, a large percentage of criminals know people who will pass a background check who are also willing to purchase a gun for them. The only option is to implement some kind of flawed system of hope that you are not one of the victims of its flaws. I mean, unless one subscribes to the radical notion that private property and its transfer is none of the government's business. And who believes that... anymore?

WHen I see polls on how many people want background check for private sales, people seem to think a background check is a simple phone call away.

These idiots can't even handle allowing FFL003 access to the database, doubtful they'll be able to handle the general public.  I'm assuming we're talking about Hawaii, all of this is a moot point as the impetus is on PD to check.

The fact is though, any hoops people jump through doesn't really matter if guns are being smuggled illegally from mexico anyways...

A while ago, there was an article that the division that handles the background checks is very under staffed.  They get thousands of request a day.  If every employee was working for 24 hours, this only gives each person 2 minutes to verify each request that comes through.  We all know that not every employee works everyday, and that the division is probably only open 9-5.  So that 2 minutes turns into less.

I can't find the link to the article.  So they do impenitent the background checks for private sales, then who ever runs it needs way more staff and funding.  Not to mention that Cruz did pass a background check, so did Pallock.  So background checks won't be the solution.