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Full Auto should be Legal (Read 11016 times)

hvybarrels

Full Auto should be Legal
« on: March 06, 2018, 06:17:21 PM »
It's always the first thought I have when someone says "nobody wants to take away your guns". Then why aren't we allowed to own full auto manufactured after 1986? Apparently someone did want to take them away, and when the NRA caved on the deal it opened the door for the current wave of scary feature bans and the AWB nonsense that followed.

If you examine the history of Firearms Owners Protection Act there are several comments from regulators who realized that just like today's scary looking rifles, fully automatic firearms were rarely used in crimes. After they were banned the murder rate actually went up, which probably had more to do with the economic picture and intensifying the war on drugs.

What we've learned from the Clinton era is that banning weapons that are rarely used in crimes does not work and only punishes those who obey the law. The reason we would want to keep military grade firearms at home is that training with them is essential for an effective militia.

As far as restrictions it can be debated if someone should be required to volunteer for an official militia, national guard, etc and earn the right to keep auto weapons at home. The tax stamp system seems more than adequate, and is probably overkill in most cases. Details can be worked out as needed.

What is indisputable is that the founding fathers explicitly advocated for Americans to have immediate access to military grade weapons in order to stave of tyranny.
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“A Communist system can be recognized by the fact that it spares the criminals and criminalizes the political opponent.”   -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

zippz

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 06:37:47 PM »
You bring up good points.  Keep lowering the bar for gun control.  Ban automatics, then ban assault rifles, then ban semiautomatics
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oldfart

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 07:05:04 PM »
That's why the libs ALWAYS say "Well, it's a good first step..."
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What, Me Worry?

punaperson

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 07:19:08 PM »
Quote from: oldfart on March 06, 2018, 07:05:04 PM
That's why the libs ALWAYS say "Well, it's a good first step..."
And I notice they always lie by not finishing the sentence truthfully with "and once we get all those people that believe that way into prison camps or executed our goal will have been achieved".  :shaka:
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hvybarrels

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 07:28:23 PM »
Apparently legally owned fully automatic weapons have only been used in 3 crimes since 1934, and one was a dirty cop permanently shutting up an informant.

https://www.thejacknews.com/law/gun-rights/legally-owned-fully-automatic-weapons-only-used-in-three-crimes-since-1934/

Some people say that means bans actually work, but compare that to how many times illegal automatic weapons have been used in crimes and the clear lesson is that bans only punish responsible owners.

I think it's time to start demanding the organizations take a clear stance on this issue. The problem with the NRA is they are tied in with the police who are increasingly becoming militarized and trained to look at the local population as a hostile force. With their late and weak-kneed response to Philando Castile the NRA showed a clear internal conflict in regards to their deference to the police state versus their constitutional supporting official mandate.

Now they appear to be slowly backing down again at a time when they should be eviscerating law enforcement for multiple failures and cowardly behavior.

Soros-funded anti democratic NGOs are teaching kids it's okay to call us terrorists because their parents disagree with us, an accusation that could get someone killed now that Obama officially sanctioned the assassination of American citizens (including underage children). The NRA response is to go on the defensive, which is clearly a losing strategy. We should be taking about getting rights back instead of voluntarily giving up more.
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“A Communist system can be recognized by the fact that it spares the criminals and criminalizes the political opponent.”   -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

eyeeatingfish

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 11:10:14 PM »
I do believe there are significant number of people who want guns completely gone and they will do so buy whatever amount of incremental steps they have to. But I also know that there are people who are not for complete gun bans and do draw a line. That reason I know that not every new firearm gun control suggestion is part of some dark motive
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punaperson

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 05:52:44 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on March 06, 2018, 11:10:14 PM
I do believe there are significant number of people who want guns completely gone and they will do so buy whatever amount of incremental steps they have to. But I also know that there are people who are not for complete gun bans and do draw a line. That reason I know that not every new firearm gun control suggestion is part of some dark motive
Those people are called "useful idiots" by the power brokers.
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6716J

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2018, 09:48:25 AM »
Quote from: zippz on March 06, 2018, 06:37:47 PM
You bring up good points.  Keep lowering the bar for gun control.  Ban automatics, then ban assault rifles, then ban semiautomatics

Then revolvers, then calibers, because who really needs a .45, or .380 or 22-250. It will get to single shot .22 shorts and then, "why do we even have them"?, Shotguns, then muzzleloaders?

Every inch we give is a mile to take back
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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

robtmc

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2018, 10:55:09 AM »
Quote from: punaperson on March 07, 2018, 05:52:44 AM
Those people are called "useful idiots" by the power brokers.
And some work for the HPD.
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London808

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 11:00:33 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on March 06, 2018, 11:10:14 PM
I do believe there are significant number of people who want guns completely gone and they will do so buy whatever amount of incremental steps they have to. But I also know that there are people who are not for complete gun bans and do draw a line. That reason I know that not every new firearm gun control suggestion is part of some dark motive

Every new gun controll suggestion is part of a dark motive because every one only then is based on the lies and propaganda put out by the media and the left.

Not one law proposed (in Hawaii especially) on the last decade has any factual evidence of reducing crime and or deaths. It’s all about see how much they can take away whilst pushing the anti gun agenda.
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"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

zippz

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 04:00:35 PM »
My point with the issue of automatics is the 2a was made for the purpose of self-defense against foreign armies, internal tyranny, and against other people that will cause harm.  Therefore you would have small arms weapons that are suited for military use which would include automatics which are commonly used in the military.  If you don't believe automatics are covered by the 2a, then you destroy your own gun rights argument. 

Some people say a line has to be drawn, like you can't own a tank.  The line should be drawn after automatics or similar future weapons which is a common infantry weapon and used for person to person battle.
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zippz

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2018, 08:16:21 AM »
I know there are a lot of gun people against automatics that are reluctant to speak out.  Id like to hear your points of view.
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punaperson

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2018, 08:27:02 AM »
Quote from: zippz on March 07, 2018, 04:00:35 PM
My point with the issue of automatics is the 2a was made for the purpose of self-defense against foreign armies, internal tyranny, and against other people that will cause harm.  Therefore you would have small arms weapons that are suited for military use which would include automatics which are commonly used in the military.  If you don't believe automatics are covered by the 2a, then you destroy your own gun rights argument. 

Some people say a line has to be drawn, like you can't own a tank.  The line should be drawn after automatics or similar future weapons which is a common infantry weapon and used for person to person battle.
Short-barreled shotguns were also used by the military, in trench warfare in WWI, but the NFA made them illegal without ATF "approval" and that was upheld by the courts, which held that short-barreled shotguns were not used by the military and thus could be de facto banned (the $200 AFT "fee" was the equivalent of almost $4,000 in today's currency valuation, so no one but the rich could possibly afford to legally possess one. I also saw that machine guns at the time cost $100 and used ones could be found for considerably less...).
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zippz

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2018, 09:13:57 AM »
Quote from: punaperson on March 08, 2018, 08:27:02 AM
Short-barreled shotguns were also used by the military, in trench warfare in WWI, but the NFA made them illegal without ATF "approval" and that was upheld by the courts, which held that short-barreled shotguns were not used by the military and thus could be de facto banned (the $200 AFT "fee" was the equivalent of almost $4,000 in today's currency valuation, so no one but the rich could possibly afford to legally possess one. I also saw that machine guns at the time cost $100 and used ones could be found for considerably less...).
Not a $100 but close.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

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robtmc

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 10:01:36 AM »
Quote from: zippz on March 07, 2018, 04:00:35 PM
Some people say a line has to be drawn, like you can't own a tank. 
Since when can you not own a tank?  Indeed the main gun ammo might be an issue.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2018, 11:12:23 AM »
Quote from: robtmc on March 08, 2018, 10:01:36 AM
Since when can you not own a tank?  Indeed the main gun ammo might be an issue.

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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2018, 01:22:19 PM »
I'm curious who kept the cannons back in the day. That would give us some clue as to what we are supposed to do with rocket launchers, etc.
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“A Communist system can be recognized by the fact that it spares the criminals and criminalizes the political opponent.”   -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

shdws

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2018, 01:31:04 PM »
Quote from: hvybarrels on March 08, 2018, 01:22:19 PM
I'm curious who kept the cannons back in the day. That would give us some clue as to what we are supposed to do with rocket launchers, etc.

Yea, if we're really going to bang hard on the 'militia' aspect of the 2A, then fk yes I require full auto, RPGs, and even predator drones.  If, as the founding fathers intended, the 'people' should maintain adequate power to check their own government if need be, then we do need a serious upgrade in our small arms and up.
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hvybarrels

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2018, 01:42:35 PM »
Quote from: shdws on March 08, 2018, 01:31:04 PM
Yea, if we're really going to bang hard on the 'militia' aspect of the 2A, then fk yes I require full auto, RPGs, and even predator drones.  If, as the founding fathers intended, the 'people' should maintain adequate power to check their own government if need be, then we do need a serious upgrade in our small arms and up.

It's an issue that reliably comes up in the Assault Rifle debate. They try to use it as a slippery slope or red herring fallacy to distract from their lack of knowledge about the benefits/dangers of small caliber infantry weapons, but it does bring up a good point. If we're going to take this militia thing seriously then do we have IED workshops? Are there centralized armories so that kids don't accidentally get into their parents hand grenade stash?
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“A Communist system can be recognized by the fact that it spares the criminals and criminalizes the political opponent.”   -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

drck1000

Re: Full Auto should be Legal
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2018, 01:56:29 PM »
I don't have strong feelings either way with respect to legality of full auto firearms.  If I had to choose, I would say that I'm ok with full auto being illegal in Hawaii.  However, I too am also interested in thoughts and logical arguments from both views of the matter. 

Personally, I little to no interest in owning one, but a good part of that is based on the cost of the things.  Even if I could afford the gun, I doubt I would ever get one. 

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