Does anyone have a legal definition from the Hawaii AG or legislature or local LEO in writing of what is a "detachable magazine"?

I've looked through threads and have seen the discussions about HPD having arbitrary determinations on the spot when folks try to register an "assault pistol". Magazines must be welded, epoxied or not allowed period depending on who's at the counter but is there a written policy?

If not, I'm considering asking the AG but don't want to step on any toes if HRA has plans in the works. I don't want our actions to be counter-productive.

 

My question as thought of at the moment...

Aloha Mr. Chin,

I have several questions regarding firearms, specifically “assault pistols”. HRS 134-1 defines an “assault pistol” as;
"Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol that accepts a detachable magazine and has two or more of the following characteristics:
     (1)  An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
     (2)  A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward hand grip, or silencer;
     (3)  A shroud that is attached to or partially or completely encircles the barrel and permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the second hand without being burned;
     (4)  A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;
     (5)  A centerfire pistol with an overall length of twelve inches or more; or
     (6)  It is a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;
but does not include a firearm with a barrel sixteen or more inches in length, an antique pistol as defined in this section, or a curio or relic as those terms are used in 18 United States Code section 921(a)(13) or 27 Code of Federal Regulations section 478.11.

My questions are:
1)   Is an “assault pistol” without a detachable magazine legal to possess in the State of Hawaii?
2)   Is a single shot, not semiautomatic, “assault pistol” with a detachable magazine legal to possess in the State of Hawaii?
3)   Does the State of Hawaii have a definition of a detachable magazine, as it is not listed in HRS 134-1?
4)   If the State of Hawaii does not have a definition, would the legal definitions from the State of California , also in the 9th Circuit, or Maryland be an acceptable definition?
California and Maryland definitions of “detachable magazine” are included below. Does the State of Hawaii agree with these definitions?
a.   California, Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 39, Department of Justice Regulations for Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Magazines. ARTICLE 2. DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED TO IDENTIFY ASSAULT WEAPONS The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1: (a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.
b.   Maryland, MD Code, Criminal Law, § 4-301: Definitions - Detachable magazine: (f) “Detachable magazine” means an ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from a firearm without requiring disassembly of the firearm action or without the use of a tool, including a bullet or cartridge.

Your responses to each of the above questions would be greatly appreciated in order to follow all enacted laws regarding firearms within the State of Hawaii.

Mahalo

[Name]

Mililani, Hi

I have not seen written policy.  Basically, if registering something where HPD has to determine whether or not it's detatchable, the decision has been subjective.

I personally got a lot of flak for a single-shot AR patterned pistol to give you an idea about what one can expect at the window.

That said, pursuing written policy will likely need to be brought to a court as the AG has been uncommited to the specifics in this case.  It may be better left as-is considering where the AG's Jurisdiction is located.

Realistically, one can get a number of 80%'s of choice and permenantly fix magazines to them WITHOUT machining first and ask them at the window what qualifies.

The AG does not give legal advice to the public, only to government departments. 

The HPD counter guys do their best to turn you away.  Earlier this week I went there to get information on long gun registrations for those under 21.  They said no.  I asked them for a reference and they said go look it up yourself.  I was nice and polite, however I kept pressing the issue.  They were pretty hostile and I could tell they just wanted me to leave.  I felt like I was going to be arrested just for asking questions.  Eventually I knew I was getting nowhere so left.  I should have asked for the Captain.

Try talking to HPD first.  If it doesn't work then ask HRA to press the issue.  I assume you're a member?  If that doesn't work, go through the AG route by asking your representative's office to inquire for you.  Since they are not gun people, you should make an appointment and go to their office to discuss it so they know exactly what you need.

Share your results here.

...
Earlier this week I went there to get information on long gun registrations for those under 21.  They said no.
...

H.R.S.134-2(c)

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/

Didn't realize this B.S. went through...

What are they going to do about all those Military personnel moving here who can't be trusted to defend their country with firearms?

The AG does not give legal advice to the public, only to government departments. 

The HPD counter guys do their best to turn you away.  Earlier this week I went there to get information on long gun registrations for those under 21.  They said no.  I asked them for a reference and they said go look it up yourself.  I was nice and polite, however I kept pressing the issue.  They were pretty hostile and I could tell they just wanted me to leave.  I felt like I was going to be arrested just for asking questions.  Eventually I knew I was getting nowhere so left.  I should have asked for the Captain.

Try talking to HPD first.  If it doesn't work then ask HRA to press the issue.  I assume you're a member?  If that doesn't work, go through the AG route by asking your representative's office to inquire for you.  Since they are not gun people, you should make an appointment and go to their office to discuss it so they know exactly what you need.

Share your results here.

Thanks for the advice. Guess I'll go that route.

Yes member of NRA
No member of HRA  Need to join

Theres stats on the number of assault pistols consfiscated. I assume its mostly from military who move here.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

The general understanding here on this forum from those registering AR15 pistols is, a non-detachable magazine is similar to a pin and welded muzzle device on a less-than-16-inch barrel.  The mag can't be removable without great effort.  It has to be as permanent as possible, meaning epoxy or welding if using a metal mag.

There are 2 primary characteristics of an assault pistol that, if absent, nullifies the remaining characteristics from consideration in defining it as such.  (1) the detachable mag.  (2)  semi-automatic action.

By welding or epoxying the mag, it's no longer detachable, and therefore not an Assault Pistol by definition.

By disabling the gas system (remove the gas tube, plug the gas port in the barrel, use a new barrel without a port), it's no longer semi-auto, and therefore not an Assault Pistol.

Splitting hairs on what "detachable" means isn't going to get you anywhere.  It's interpreted as being synonymous with "removable".  The dictionary meaning for "detachable" is "able to be removed or separated from something."  As long as the common meaning is sufficient and not ambiguous, the state really has no reason to define it again.  As was mentioned, the AG will not elaborate on, or clarify, the law for us peons no matter how we ask.  Their reply will always be, "Please consult a legal professional if you need to ask how a law specifically applies in your case."  They will respond to legislators, the Governor's office, and to HPD.  The AG represent the state, and as such, they don't really work for the people who pay for their existence.

Bullet buttons were a clever work-around in CA -- until it wasn't.  The new law there requires the rifle be disassembled to remove and insert another mag.  Separating the upper and lower receivers is enough to qualify as "disassembled."  Owners of existing Assault Weapons with bullet buttons were allowed to register them so they can be grandfathered, but the new laws prohibit new rifles with bullet buttons.  These registrations are being fought via several lawsuits.

So 21 and over but what if they bring the firearm in from another State? Is that what you were asking? I guess the minor buries the firearm in their backyard until they turn 21.

(d)  The chief of police of the respective counties may issue permits to acquire firearms to citizens of the United States of the age of twenty-one years or more,

(a)  Every person arriving in the State who brings or by any other manner causes to be brought into the State a firearm of any description, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, shall register the firearm within five days after arrival of the person or of the firearm, whichever arrives later, with the chief of police of the county of the person's place of business or, if there is no place of business, the person's residence or, if there is neither a place of business nor residence, the person's place of sojourn.