Trayvon Martin (Read 80520 times)

GZire

Trayvon Martin
« on: March 27, 2012, 04:34:00 PM »
So I'm a little surprised no one has posted anything.  Following are two takes on the "Stand Your Ground" law that is being brought up in the case.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/story/2012-03-26/stand-your-ground-trayvon-zimmerman/53795046/1

Quote
Editorial: 'Stand your ground' is a recipe for tragedy

One month has passed since George Zimmerman shot and killed unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla. So why hasn't Zimmerman, the overly zealous neighborhood watch patrolman, been charged with anything? Racial considerations aside, the answer is "stand your ground" — a controversial Florida self-defense law that Sanford police say prohibited them from making an arrest.

Enacted in 2005 at the behest of the National Rifle Association, "stand your ground" gives citizens a right to use deadly force as long as they reasonably believe they're facing a threat of death or bodily harm. About two dozen states have followed suit.

At first blush, the idea of standing up to threats has a simple appeal that the gun lobby has been able to exploit. Dig a little deeper, though, and the concept is a recipe for tragedy, particularly in places like Florida where it's easy for people to get permits to carry concealed weapons.

Fact is, the new law was unnecessary. People have always had a right to self defense, particularly in their own homes or vehicles. Sponsors in the Florida Legislature relied on a vague anecdote about an elderly man who, after the series of hurricanes in 2004, shot an intruder in his trailer. The man was never charged, but he had to wait months before prosecutors made the decision. That's an awfully thin reed for a drastic change in criminal laws.

At the time, police and prosecutors warned against the change, and it appears that their fears are being realized. Since 2005, the number of cases classified as justifiable homicides in Florida has more than doubled. "Stand your ground" has been invoked in numerous killings where unarmed people have been shot or stabbed in dubious circumstances.

In public places, such as bars and restaurants or parks and neighborhoods, people once had a "duty to retreat" from danger. That legal principle, despite its unfortunate name, doesn't mean you have to turn your back on an armed assailant. It means you can't reflexively use deadly force with little concern about the consequences. Instead, police and prosecutors weigh the circumstances to determine whether the fear of bodily harm was, in fact, reasonable and whether the force used was appropriate.

You couldn't just pull out a gun and shoot someone who took a swing at you unless other evidence pointed to more extreme danger.

Often, these are close calls. But Florida authorities say their hands now are too often tied by "stand your ground". Sanford's police chief said the law prohibited him from arresting Zimmerman. This despite the fact that Zimmerman had killed an unarmed teen and ignored a 911 operator's instruction not to intervene.

He might well have misinterpreted the law, but that only points to risk the law introduces: People will feel free to fire their weapons, and law enforcement will feel its hands are tied.

Amid the uproar over the Martin case, Florida ought to keep careful track of instances where "stand your ground" is invoked so that law enforcement, legislators and the public can see how the law is, or isn't, working. At the very least, police and prosecutors should be given more discretion to determine whether a person acted on reasonable or unreasonable fears. Better yet, Florida and other states that rushed to adopt "stand your ground" should go back to the self-defense laws that served them well for decades.

Take a place with lots of guns, mix in a law that sends the message you can shoot first and claim self-defense later, and the result is as deadly as it is predictable. If that wasn't apparent before the Feb. 26 killing of an unarmed 17-year-old, it should be today.

GZire

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 04:35:24 PM »
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/story/2012-03-26/stand-your-ground-police/53795024/1


Quote
Opposing view: 'Stand your ground' is misunderstood

The "stand your ground" defense, established in 2005 by the Florida Legislature, works and is effective if applied properly. The law essentially provides that a person may use deadly force in self-defense when there's reasonable belief of a deadly threat, and without an obligation to retreat first.

Although it wasn't codified as a law until 2005 in Florida, as early as 1921 the U.S. Supreme Court established that a man or woman has no duty to retreat where there is an imminent fear of death or bodily harm. Justice Oliver Wendell Homes Jr. wrote that "detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife."

Some individuals argue that the "stand your ground" defense has opened the door to a free-for-all shooting gallery. This is simply not true. Although the number of justifiable homicides in Florida has more than doubled since "stand your ground" was passed in 2005, the rate of violent crime in the state deceased by 23% from 2005 to 2010, according to FBI statistics. This is not to say that the "stand your ground" law in itself caused the decrease, but it certainly was a factor.

The main issue is not the law itself, but the way it is applied. The law is designed to protect innocent victims. It does not have any provision to protect original aggressors.

Since the Trayvon Martin shooting put "stand your ground" in the spotlight, the general public has misunderstood the law, believing that someone can be chased down and killed without repercussions. The specific facts and evidence that led police to apply the doctrine in the Martin case are unknown right now. The solution is better training for the police and more transparent investigations so the public can understand why and when the doctrine is applied.

We as citizens do not know everything the police use to come to the conclusion that a case involved self-defense. As such, we are led by the mainstream news media, which might not have a full understanding of the law and the specific evidence in every case. Education is key; a lynch mob mentality will not solve misconceptions about the law.

SpeedTek

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Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 06:29:47 PM »
I want more info first....
Political Correctness is FOS
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DonRow

Trayvon Martin
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 07:17:03 PM »
Need more info.

Kingkeoni

Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Cougar8045

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 08:51:58 PM »
Perhaps more information will come to light, and as always I reserve the right to change my mind, but so far all the evidence that has come to light has reinforced and corroborated Zimmerman's narrative.  Despite what the gun grabbers and race baiters would have you believe, Florida's Stand Your Ground law does not allow you to blow someone away, say, "He threatened me", and get off scot-free.  It simply prevents the police from taking a clear-cut self-defense shooter and tossing them in jail for the night or the weekend.  If there were any evidence that the shooting was not a lawful case of self-defense, I'm sure the Sanford DA would have brought charges.  We'll see what happens with this special investigator, I guess.
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2

42itus

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2012, 09:08:12 PM »
I'm sure the deceased was a good kid.. But isn't this the same story over and over?  APEC, the guy getting stabbed by Kapiolani park, et al.  I'm not saying the deceased deserved to die, but it's their own actions that led to those consequences.

GZire

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2012, 09:03:22 AM »

Echo5Alpha

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2012, 07:18:36 PM »
I was thinking about bringing it up but it just irritates me so much that I decided not to.  What irritates me is the media bias.  They continually show a picture of Treyvon Martin as a young boy, however the boy pictured does not depict a 17 year old @ 6'2".  I've taken the stance to let the investigation take it's course, but leaders of special interest groups have continued to spew their input and forcing this into a "Racial Issue". 

As 42itus has said "I'm sure the deceased was a good kid.. But isn't this the same story over and over? ".  There's more to the characters of both people involved.  I can only hope the media chooses to show light.

DonRow

Trayvon Martin
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2012, 09:57:16 PM »
I love the way the parents are trying to make money off his death. And spike lee goes and post some random address that's not even the guys address on twitter. And not to mention the black panther putting a $10,000 bounty and apparently soon to be a million Dollars. The black panthers say money is coming in from actors and professional sports players. Now that's just straight up irresponsible by 1) the media for jumping on this with out the facts. 2) Obama and his administration. Remember "Trayvon could have been his son" if that's not ensighting a riot then I don't know what is.

hillbilly19

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2012, 10:47:53 PM »
Let the investigators do their jobs.  This isnt CSI where crimes are solved in 24hrs.  The last thing authorities want is to rush an investigation and have the case thrown out in court due to a technicality.  If the facts and evidence support charges against Zimmerman then so be it, but he shouldnt be charged cause a bunch of petitions, celebrities, media, and even obama himself say so.  The shit going on now makes this whole thing nothing more than a modern day witch hunt or lynching.

DonRow

Trayvon Martin
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2012, 06:23:23 AM »
Let the investigators do their jobs.  This isnt CSI where crimes are solved in 24hrs.  The last thing authorities want is to rush an investigation and have the case thrown out in court due to a technicality.  If the facts and evidence support charges against Zimmerman then so be it, but he shouldnt be charged cause a bunch of petitions, celebrities, media, and even obama himself say so.  The shit going on now makes this whole thing nothing more than a modern day witch hunt or lynching.
AAAHHHHHHHH you said lynching. On my god. AHHHHH!

Just kidding man. Lol

hillbilly19

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2012, 10:41:03 AM »
AAAHHHHHHHH you said lynching. On my god. AHHHHH!

Just kidding man. Lol

I know! Shit, I hope jesse jackson and al sharpton dont plan a rally outside my house now!

DonRow

Trayvon Martin
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2012, 01:09:19 PM »
I know! Shit, I hope jesse jackson and al sharpton dont plan a rally outside my house now!
:rofl: :rofl:

GZire

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2012, 02:00:43 PM »
I know! Shit, I hope jesse jackson and al sharpton dont plan a rally outside my house now!

If they are as sharp as Spike Lee they will tweet your address unfortunately it will be the address to some poor 70 year old couple..................

Cougar8045

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2012, 07:32:39 PM »
If they are as sharp as Spike Lee they will tweet your address unfortunately it will be the address to some poor 70 year old couple..................
Here's a great article on ThePeoplesCube.com.  For those who don't know, the Peoples' Cube is a conservative website which mocks liberalism by sarcastically imitating a Soviet agitprop website.  It's run by a former Soviet agitprop artist who immigrated to the US and found out he loves him some freedom!  Anyway, check it out.
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2

SpeedTek

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Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2012, 09:41:34 PM »
I heard the Hoodie was a 6'3" football player punk.....and the guy that shot him was a 5'9" under 200 lbs guy.  Why does the media put put pics like the guy was a scrawny kid???


From all the new reports I read TY is the bad guy....and these reports are from the main stream media.
Political Correctness is FOS
I collect M1 Carbines, PM me if youre selling!
& Bolt Action 308s also 10/22 Rugers.
Buying STOCK Ruger 10/22 parts and bits, PM me.
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hvybarrels

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2012, 12:28:17 AM »
Florida is a backwards racist-ass state run by a bunch of corrupt neo-nazi politicos and half of the cops pigs are actively involved in the KKK. They would do us all a big favor by breaking off from the continental us and sinking to the bottom of the Atlantic ocean. The only bright side of the Deepwater Horizon is has a chance of poisoning everyone and ruining their gene pool leaving them unable to reproduce. Unfortunately while we wait for them to eat enough contaminated seafood and inbreed themselves out of existence more morally depraved stories like this one can be expected.

I'm surprised no one called this out for what it is. You guys just chomped the race bait as hard as the Obama-lovin' liberals, only your cultural indoctrination happened to land on the side of white privilege in a universe where everyone has an equal shot and the reason 40% of blacks in some cities are in jail or prison is that there's something wrong with them.

The reason hoodies are showing up everywhere and that murderous psycho is still walking free is the media has it's opportunity to start wearing away at the foundations of our last remaining amendment. You have no free speech in this country anymore. No due process. No protection from torture or extraordinary rendition or getting blown up in your car by a predator drone because someone had their suspicions and that was good enough. You have no privacy, no right to counsel, no free press, and as of last week Obama just signed into law the emergency preparedness act that says private property as we know it will soon be over.

All that's left is 2a, and as soon as Obama knocks down whichever clown they put up against him in this fake contest you better believe he's going for the guns. Then maybe you will understand what occupy and the tea party were really about, but it will be too late. So keep watching your reality tv and wait for those gas prices to come back down. Who knows maybe it is possible to borrow our way out of debt.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Heavies

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2012, 04:18:39 AM »
The guy isn't white.  Or at least not what a neo-nazi, kkk, guy would call a white guy.  I guess all those conclusion jumping, idiot, protesters feel stupid now.

Justice needs to be served, Blind Justice, the facts will speak, that's all there is to it.

hvybarrels

Re: Trayvon Martin
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2012, 03:36:31 PM »
it's not like he called the cops and asked them if he could go confront hoodie and they told him to stop and leave the guy alone
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.