Firearms Training - Sharing Experience (Read 11341 times)

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2019, 03:16:59 PM »
The single point attaches in less than a second.  The Vickers has a QD on the rail, but needs to be wrapped around in the butt stock.  This takes way longer to set up

They make versions with QD on both ends. You can also change the hardware. That said, think you’re approaching the issue with “interesting” priorities.

“Always an enabler, never a disabler”

« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 03:35:02 PM by drck1000 »

changemyoil66

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #81 on: November 11, 2019, 12:47:46 PM »
They make versions with QD on both ends. You can also change the hardware. That said, think you’re approaching the issue with “interesting” priorities.

“Always an enabler, never a disabler”

My priorities might change after I take one of your classes. I would consider myself a noob still.

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2019, 03:54:06 PM »
Shot carbine course (skill builder) yesterday.  It was a very hot and humid day on the range.  It was overcast most of the day, but rain early and virtually NO breeze made it for a very humid day.  Of course it had to rain at this location and with this training group.  Almost tradition.   ;D 

Shot about 400 rounds rifle and some pistol mixed in.  There was opportunity to get more reps and rounds in, but I think it was a good round count for me.  I would say al quality training rounds.  We ended the day shooting steel, but time was short.  I definitely could have run a bunch more ammo shooting steel if we had more time. 

Shot my new BCM upper with LPVO.  It was the second time shooting this setup with the first being to zero.  Overall, the setup is excellent and the glass is awesome (for the price, it better be  ;D ).  I would say a decent first impression in a training environment.  No "wow, this is super awesome", but also not "meh, I'll stick with previous setups".  Will definitely be shooting this setup more, but this setup was also primarily for some specific reasons and not necessarily primary for the context of yesterday's class. 

Some highlights/notes:

1) Need more time with the LPVO, particularly tighter consistency with mounting the gun from various ready positions.  At 1x, it's decently forgiving on eye box and head position, but not nearly as forgiving as a 1x red dot (Aimpoint, EoTech, etc).  I expected this, but also different experiencing in training when there are some "stressors" added in. 

2) The LPVO setup is quite heavy.  I didn't think it was that much more than my primary setup with EoTech, but my arms were smoked by the end of the day.  There were series of strings of fire where my delts were on fire and actually started trembling.  Being out of shape/practice with shooting the AR like that was part of it, but a much younger shooter (who shoots pretty often) in my relay said similar.  I weighed both guns this morning and the LPVO setup is 9.8 lbs and my EoTech setup is 8.8 lbs.  I thought the weight difference was going to be more, but still 1 lbs is a decent amount.  I didn't have the light mounted, so the setup will only get heavier.  :(

3) The LPVO reticle seemed to help tighten up shot grouping.  At 1x, the center dot is easy to pick up, but the vertical line below the dot seemed to help tighten lateral dispersion.  Your eyes naturally picks ups on what level and or vertical as well as tries to align and/or center things.  I assume that helped.  I did notice after many shot strings that the lateral spread was pretty tight.  I was also playing around with using that portion of the reticle to help with holdovers as well. 

4) When we were doing shot strings on multiple targets, the LPVO seemed fine shooting both eyes open.  Or at least not much different in view from my EoTech.  However, I did notice that when arm fatigue set in, it affected my holds.  Seemed to get sloppy with more shots dipping low. 

5) I'm seeing the effects of "aging eyes".  When we were doing some rifle to pistol transitions, I noticed that the change in focal plane from the rifle to the pistol was lagging.  It was the first time I noticed it like that.  I've been fighting using reading glasses and have started in the last month or so.  We had a candid conversation about this in the even debrief.  I had been fighting using reading glasses or even using larger font on my phone.  Well, my aging eyes have caught up to me.

Some points to hopefully help maximize one's training time. 

6) Try your best to have your rifle setup tested before a class.  Last thing you want is to be fighting your gear when there is plenty for your mind to be absorbing.  Completely understand that sometimes there isn't enough time to do so for many.  Training is also a good time to iron out gear setups as well.  However, a malfunctioning gun will definitely hamper your day.  My new BCM upper performed flawlessly, but I did have a backup carbine ready to go if something happened.  Say I didn't mount the optic properly or anything else.  The only tweak I had to do was adjust the sling attachment on the rail to keep the sling away from my support hand.

7) Understand your zero as well as holds.  Or at least try to have a confirmed zero at known distance.  I had zeroed my LPVO at 50 yards, but the start of the day was dialing in the hold over.  Something that KHSC isn't setup well to test and see for yourself.  But there were also a couple of shooters who weren't quite dialed in on their zero.  Wasn't a big deal when shooting in the 5-10 yard range, but it did show up when we were shooting steel at "longer" distances.

Another fun day on the range with an awesome group of shooters.  Hopefully I'll start shooting more consistently on my own as well as with this training group.  I was quite sore last night and this morning.  Both my shoulders as well as other parts of my body.  But all well worth a great day on the range.   :geekdanc:

PS - Oh yeah, can't forget "FIREBALL!!!"  I think some were getting a tan from that brake.   :rofl:

changemyoil66

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2019, 05:03:09 PM »
I think the wife and i will def sign up for a pistol class 1st. Saw some vids of the type that class offers.

Gotta save some $ first.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Rocky

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2019, 07:59:54 PM »
   What a coincidence.
I  was also at a Dynamic Carbine Skill Builder with a much younger shooter this weekend.
Weather wasn't as nice as it had been all week, but I would say there was some "High Humidity" falling late morning.

   Was using a 4 X 32 Trij ACOG which I had sighted in on a 25 meter zero.
This made 10yds or less kind a tough as if you did not draw up directly with in 6"s  of target, it required a little search and even at that distance, POA/POI  was just below the bottom hash mark.
Add another 3 yds and everything opened up  from there and beyond and  making POA/ POI was easy.
I was going to come with an Aimpoint, but we've been doing a lot of 100-450 yd with AR,  AK and .308 bolt so I thought I would go ACOG and work on my "short game"

   Also have my safety/reload/ safety down, something I was against  utilizing last class as my "prestidigitation" was lacking, but a 45 Degree throw ambi solved that and I kind of like the move now.

   I did have a malfunction but immediately knew what it was as it happened once before. The notorious popped primer falling into trigger assembly.
I had borrowed my back up to a pair of others who had "build issues" and missed a good target string tickling the primer out from beneath the trigger spring.
It was an ammo thing, not really equipment failure so I don't feel that bad about it, just sore I missed t the string.
I think there were 3 rifles with issues in my group which were no longer used, all of which were builds.

   I also think it's time to replace my sling as it started annoying me later in the day.
It is kinda worn.
Vickers maybe ? 

   As for your eyes, sorry, nothing I can do for you young whipper-snappers.
"Getting old isn't for pussy's." says my MIL , eh Inspector / OF  :wave:
LOL

   I personally had no issues with anybody's brake, but was told someone had a flamethrower assist on their Stouker concussion rifle.
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

   So I too had  "Another fun day on the range with an awesome group of shooters." as well as some fine instruction and look forward to seeing them all again."
GREAT Bunch !
 :thumbsup:


“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

changemyoil66

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #85 on: November 18, 2019, 10:39:59 AM »
I just googled LPVO and now I understand more.  I've tried my friends LPVO and noticed at 50 yards or less, the red dot was faster to acquire the target.  But it all depends what kind of hits you want to get and age of eyes.  If you're hitting steel or similar objects where any hit counts, then a red dot is faster and easier for me.  But if you have to stack rounds on each other, then the LVPO would come in more accurate because I can see where the POI is and adjust as needed.

So my AR has a ROMEO5 on it (red dot) because all my shooting is within 40 yards.  This is why I never got a LVPO or an ACOG type of sight.  Even at 1x on the LVPO, the acquisition was slower than a 1x red dot.

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #86 on: November 18, 2019, 12:04:45 PM »
   What a coincidence.
I  was also at a Dynamic Carbine Skill Builder with a much younger shooter this weekend.
Weather wasn't as nice as it had been all week, but I would say there was some "High Humidity" falling late morning.

   Was using a 4 X 32 Trij ACOG which I had sighted in on a 25 meter zero.
This made 10yds or less kind a tough as if you did not draw up directly with in 6"s  of target, it required a little search and even at that distance, POA/POI  was just below the bottom hash mark.
Add another 3 yds and everything opened up  from there and beyond and  making POA/ POI was easy.
I was going to come with an Aimpoint, but we've been doing a lot of 100-450 yd with AR,  AK and .308 bolt so I thought I would go ACOG and work on my "short game"

   Also have my safety/reload/ safety down, something I was against  utilizing last class as my "prestidigitation" was lacking, but a 45 Degree throw ambi solved that and I kind of like the move now.

   I did have a malfunction but immediately knew what it was as it happened once before. The notorious popped primer falling into trigger assembly.
I had borrowed my back up to a pair of others who had "build issues" and missed a good target string tickling the primer out from beneath the trigger spring.
It was an ammo thing, not really equipment failure so I don't feel that bad about it, just sore I missed t the string.
I think there were 3 rifles with issues in my group which were no longer used, all of which were builds.

   I also think it's time to replace my sling as it started annoying me later in the day.
It is kinda worn.
Vickers maybe ? 

   As for your eyes, sorry, nothing I can do for you young whipper-snappers.
"Getting old isn't for pussy's." says my MIL , eh Inspector / OF  :wave:
LOL

   I personally had no issues with anybody's brake, but was told someone had a flamethrower assist on their Stouker concussion rifle.
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

   So I too had  "Another fun day on the range with an awesome group of shooters." as well as some fine instruction and look forward to seeing them all again."
GREAT Bunch !
 :thumbsup:
What a coincidence!

I did notice that you and I think two others were using ACOGs. I was chatting with one guy who also had an RMR on it and he was having an easier time with the RMR, even with the steel. Think he mentioned he was having a hard time getting the steel into the ACOG’s window. I wanted to try the LPVO on 3-4x, but didn’t get a chance.

I was getting the safety manipulation down when doing deliberate reps as well as rifle only. I did catch myself not doing it a few times when we mixed in the pistol transition and multi-target strings. Mind was on keeping the shot/number/target straight. Need to work on that skill till it become habit. Getting there, but need more practice. I mean I want to, just old habits creeping in, again.

I noticed that you disappeared for a while. I wondered what happened. I actually had that primer thing happen to a gun once, where it got lodged under the trigger bar. Trigger and safety completely disabled when I was cleaning. So somehow the primer moved to the “disable spot” after shooting. It was strange. Hopefully never to be seen/experienced again.

Ahh. Didn’t know they were builds. They were in your group, so I didn’t get to chat with them much. I didn’t notice one problem gun has a fancy muzzle device and gas block. Hopefully they’ll get it sorted out. I asked if they wanted to shoot my backup, but they said they were good with alternating rifles.

You had an interesting sling method. I actually had a spare Vickers sling with me. You should’ve said something. Needed QD attachment points tho.

The guy shooting to my right had a break that had VERY efficient side venting. Felt like a leaf blower going on and off next to me. Haha. That was an interesting test for shooting with “outside” distractions.

Yup, excellent day!




drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #87 on: November 18, 2019, 01:03:50 PM »
I just googled LPVO and now I understand more.  I've tried my friends LPVO and noticed at 50 yards or less, the red dot was faster to acquire the target.  But it all depends what kind of hits you want to get and age of eyes.  If you're hitting steel or similar objects where any hit counts, then a red dot is faster and easier for me.  But if you have to stack rounds on each other, then the LVPO would come in more accurate because I can see where the POI is and adjust as needed.

So my AR has a ROMEO5 on it (red dot) because all my shooting is within 40 yards.  This is why I never got a LVPO or an ACOG type of sight.  Even at 1x on the LVPO, the acquisition was slower than a 1x red dot.
That you've tried both for yourself is great.  That said, for me it is very much about what is the purpose and intended/envisioned use.  I definitely had some things in mind that I wanted to see as well test for myself when debating investing in an LPVO.  If the benefits of the LPVO isn't what you are looking for (or maybe not even realize), then that's a different story.  That said, the performance difference between say EoTech/Aimpoint and LPVO from the  "in your face" range out to say 50 yards (actually further) was more about comparing the "just as good" factor of the LPVO in 1x to the standard red dot, and then eventually factoring in the benefits of the LPVO.  The latter aspect is one that I hope to get the delve into soon. 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 11:39:58 PM by drck1000 »

Rocky

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #88 on: November 18, 2019, 05:23:48 PM »
What a coincidence!

I did notice that you and I think two others were using ACOGs. I was chatting with one guy who also had an RMR on it and he was having an easier time with the RMR, even with the steel. Think he mentioned he was having a hard time getting the steel into the ACOG’s window. I wanted to try the LPVO on 3-4x, but didn’t get a chance.

I was getting the safety manipulation down when doing deliberate reps as well as rifle only. I did catch myself not doing it a few times when we mixed in the pistol transition and multi-target strings. Mind was on keeping the shot/number/target straight. Need to work on that skill till it become habit. Getting there, but need more practice. I mean I want to, just old habits creeping in, again.

I noticed that you disappeared for a while. I wondered what happened. I actually had that primer thing happen to a gun once, where it got lodged under the trigger bar. Trigger and safety completely disabled when I was cleaning. So somehow the primer moved to the “disable spot” after shooting. It was strange. Hopefully never to be seen/experienced again.

Ahh. Didn’t know they were builds. They were in your group, so I didn’t get to chat with them much. I didn’t notice one problem gun has a fancy muzzle device and gas block. Hopefully they’ll get it sorted out. I asked if they wanted to shoot my backup, but they said they were good with alternating rifles.

You had an interesting sling method. I actually had a spare Vickers sling with me. You should’ve said something. Needed QD attachment points tho.

The guy shooting to my right had a break that had VERY efficient side venting. Felt like a leaf blower going on and off next to me. Haha. That was an interesting test for shooting with “outside” distractions.

Yup, excellent day!

   Saw the ACOGS, but I think there may even have been 4 including mine and the one with RMR.
Attempted BAC but it was not as fast for me (old eyes) and wanted to work on ACOG CQB anyway.

   Yup, knew what the primer deal was cuz it happened before.
Twice if you count the primer dropping perfectly between the gas tube and the BCG gas key slamming the primer into the gas key.
What are the odds  ?  :crazy:

   My "interesting sling method" is due to the fact I am SUPER hesitant to transition to left handed fire.
Seeing how I cannot feel with my left hand takes that transition out of play.
(I got busted by BB grabbing a pistol mag and trying to feed it into my AR mag well)  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 I rarely even support hand fire with pistol and only when I have plenty of space. :shake:
Dropping your pistol is more than embarrassing.  :P

      I think the 'Gasser" wants to come out here for some LR.
If you want to test your LPVO on some distance, LMK and I'll see if we can co-ordinate a time.
PM me

 :shaka:
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 05:40:39 PM by Rocky »
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2019, 06:10:53 PM »
   Saw the ACOGS, but I think there may even have been 4 including mine and the one with RMR.
Attempted BAC but it was not as fast for me (old eyes) and wanted to work on ACOG CQB anyway.

   Yup, knew what the primer deal was cuz it happened before.
Twice if you count the primer dropping perfectly between the gas tube and the BCG gas key slamming the primer into the gas key.
What are the odds  ?  :crazy:

   My "interesting sling method" is due to the fact I am SUPER hesitant to transition to left handed fire.
Seeing how I cannot feel with my left hand takes that transition out of play.
(I got busted by BB grabbing a pistol mag and trying to feed it into my AR mag well)  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 I rarely even support hand fire with pistol and only when I have plenty of space. :shake:
Dropping your pistol is more than embarrassing.  :P

      I think the 'Gasser" wants to come out here for some LR.
If you want to test your LPVO on some distance, LMK and I'll see if we can co-ordinate a time.
PM me

 :shaka:
I have very little experience with ACOGs and very, very little in the 5-10 yard range. Good that you’re trying and stuck with it. To a certain extent, good to “shoot what you got”. I’ve actually been wanting to do more shooting with irons.

Ahh. I forgot about your injury. Even for me, things are different after my back surgery. Wish I could go back to my physical condition when I first started doing the shooting class thing. Just gotta find a way that works, which you have been.

Yeah, I’m def down for some LD, especially with the LPVO. Keep me posted. I have some testing I want to do with various ammo, including some FGMM, with longer distance shooting in mind.  :thumbsup:

macsak

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #90 on: November 18, 2019, 07:46:46 PM »
I have very little experience with ACOGs and very, very little in the 5-10 yard range. Good that you’re trying and stuck with it. To a certain extent, good to “shoot what you got”. I’ve actually been wanting to do more shooting with irons.

Ahh. I forgot about your injury. Even for me, things are different after my back surgery. Wish I could go back to my physical condition when I first started doing the shooting class thing. Just gotta find a way that works, which you have been.

Yeah, I’m def down for some LD, especially with the LPVO. Keep me posted. I have some testing I want to do with various ammo, including some FGMM, with longer distance shooting in mind.  :thumbsup:

heads

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #91 on: December 01, 2019, 05:46:37 PM »
Wrong thread. . .

#nofocus
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 09:05:45 PM by drck1000 »

Bushido

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #92 on: December 01, 2019, 07:56:44 PM »
Shot carbine course (skill builder) yesterday.  It was a very hot and humid day on the range.  It was overcast most of the day, but rain early and virtually NO breeze made it for a very humid day.  Of course it had to rain at this location and with this training group.  Almost tradition.   ;D 

Shot about 400 rounds rifle and some pistol mixed in.  There was opportunity to get more reps and rounds in, but I think it was a good round count for me.  I would say al quality training rounds.  We ended the day shooting steel, but time was short.  I definitely could have run a bunch more ammo shooting steel if we had more time. 

Shot my new BCM upper with LPVO.  It was the second time shooting this setup with the first being to zero.  Overall, the setup is excellent and the glass is awesome (for the price, it better be  ;D ).  I would say a decent first impression in a training environment.  No "wow, this is super awesome", but also not "meh, I'll stick with previous setups".  Will definitely be shooting this setup more, but this setup was also primarily for some specific reasons and not necessarily primary for the context of yesterday's class. 

Some highlights/notes:

1) Need more time with the LPVO, particularly tighter consistency with mounting the gun from various ready positions.  At 1x, it's decently forgiving on eye box and head position, but not nearly as forgiving as a 1x red dot (Aimpoint, EoTech, etc).  I expected this, but also different experiencing in training when there are some "stressors" added in. 

2) The LPVO setup is quite heavy.  I didn't think it was that much more than my primary setup with EoTech, but my arms were smoked by the end of the day.  There were series of strings of fire where my delts were on fire and actually started trembling.  Being out of shape/practice with shooting the AR like that was part of it, but a much younger shooter (who shoots pretty often) in my relay said similar.  I weighed both guns this morning and the LPVO setup is 9.8 lbs and my EoTech setup is 8.8 lbs.  I thought the weight difference was going to be more, but still 1 lbs is a decent amount.  I didn't have the light mounted, so the setup will only get heavier.  :(

3) The LPVO reticle seemed to help tighten up shot grouping.  At 1x, the center dot is easy to pick up, but the vertical line below the dot seemed to help tighten lateral dispersion.  Your eyes naturally picks ups on what level and or vertical as well as tries to align and/or center things.  I assume that helped.  I did notice after many shot strings that the lateral spread was pretty tight.  I was also playing around with using that portion of the reticle to help with holdovers as well. 

4) When we were doing shot strings on multiple targets, the LPVO seemed fine shooting both eyes open.  Or at least not much different in view from my EoTech.  However, I did notice that when arm fatigue set in, it affected my holds.  Seemed to get sloppy with more shots dipping low. 

5) I'm seeing the effects of "aging eyes".  When we were doing some rifle to pistol transitions, I noticed that the change in focal plane from the rifle to the pistol was lagging.  It was the first time I noticed it like that.  I've been fighting using reading glasses and have started in the last month or so.  We had a candid conversation about this in the even debrief.  I had been fighting using reading glasses or even using larger font on my phone.  Well, my aging eyes have caught up to me.

Some points to hopefully help maximize one's training time. 

6) Try your best to have your rifle setup tested before a class.  Last thing you want is to be fighting your gear when there is plenty for your mind to be absorbing.  Completely understand that sometimes there isn't enough time to do so for many.  Training is also a good time to iron out gear setups as well.  However, a malfunctioning gun will definitely hamper your day.  My new BCM upper performed flawlessly, but I did have a backup carbine ready to go if something happened.  Say I didn't mount the optic properly or anything else.  The only tweak I had to do was adjust the sling attachment on the rail to keep the sling away from my support hand.

7) Understand your zero as well as holds.  Or at least try to have a confirmed zero at known distance.  I had zeroed my LPVO at 50 yards, but the start of the day was dialing in the hold over.  Something that KHSC isn't setup well to test and see for yourself.  But there were also a couple of shooters who weren't quite dialed in on their zero.  Wasn't a big deal when shooting in the 5-10 yard range, but it did show up when we were shooting steel at "longer" distances.

Another fun day on the range with an awesome group of shooters.  Hopefully I'll start shooting more consistently on my own as well as with this training group.  I was quite sore last night and this morning.  Both my shoulders as well as other parts of my body.  But all well worth a great day on the range.   :geekdanc:

PS - Oh yeah, can't forget "FIREBALL!!!"  I think some were getting a tan from that brake.   :rofl:

Thanks for sharing

macsak

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #93 on: December 01, 2019, 09:13:22 PM »

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #94 on: December 02, 2019, 04:43:40 PM »
Not quite training, but shot a pistol match this past weekend.  Haven't shot a match in over 2 years.  Just checked my emails and I last shot in June 2017.  Work, health of a family member, own ailments, etc kept me away.  I was shooting here and there during that time, but wasn't making it out to matches like I used to.  I used to shoot maybe 6-8 matches a year.  My goal at one time was to shoot at least once a month.  Lots of things have changes since I last shot a match, so I was expecting a lot of rust, adjustments to the "current me", etc. 

Overall, had a really fun day on the range.  It was raining in town when I left for the range, but it was dry once I got to Niu Valley.  It was actually a relatively cool day on the range since it was overcast most of the day and had a good breeze and the rain stayed away.  The stages were a good mix of steel and paper with varying shooting stations, the latter of which was one of my main concerns going in.  Since I had not shot a match in a while, I told myself to just take it easy, so slow (hopefully smooth) and just have fun.  Of course, once that first buzzer went off, some of that mindset went out the window as the competitive side kicked back in. 

Some notes/highlights from the match:

1) I started off pretty solid scoring wise.  I think I cleaned the steel (one for one) on my first two stages and had mostly A's.  My times were, uh, respectable, but I was expecting that.  I was admittedly a little nervous prior to the first stage, but once that buzzer went off, that all went away.  My heart was racing by the end of that first stage.  While the match went smoothly, not much waiting around and squads about evenly distributed, I certainly felt a drop off in energy in the 4th and 5th stages.  I didn't feel tired, but my concentration sort of started waning.  The 4th stage was all steel and included a couple of smaller plates that seemed to be giving some shooters quite a bit of trouble (I witnessed at least one shooter run all his ammo dry on this stage).  Anyways, when I missed twice on that smaller plate, I noticed that I was prairie dogging and focus was on the plate and not my front sight.  Dammit.  After a forced respiratory pause and front sight focus, got the hit.  However, that lack of focus seemed to carry over to the 5th stage and ended up with a bunch of C's and also a mike.  Thankfully that was my only mike of the match.

2) Thanks to a couple of helpful shooters in my squad, I ended up with video of all of my stages.  Always somewhat apprehensive to watch as it can be discouraging seeing what you're actually doing.  I did notice some of my old shooting form creeping back in here and there when I was trying to focus on the hits on the smaller steel.  However, I was happy to see that most of my reloads were where they belong, and not around belt level, which is a bad habit of mine.  Video doesn't lie and overall I was happy with what I saw, but of course there were many things to work on.  Stuff like being aware of standoff to barricades, being more efficient coming "on station", etc. 

3) As mentioned above, I've been noticing changes in my eye sight lately and that was another concern.  When I was practicing at the bullseye range, it took more effort to get a crisp front sight focus.  However, during the match, the FO front sight was very bright and easy to pick up.  Or at least I didn't notice having trouble picking up the sights.

4) Be honest about how you're shooting.  I've been working on a lot of ball & dummy drills lately and it seems to have really helped.  Admittedly, it was discouraging to see the occasional (sometimes not more occasional  :( ) yank of the trigger and even flinch when encountering a misfire come through.  But no one to blame but me.  That said, there were a bunch of shooters at the match that I am sure could really benefit from some ball & dummy drills.

5) Lots of people shooting RDS.  A LOT.  I already have a Glock 17 with RMR and a Glock 19 on the way with RMR cutout.  I'm hyped to shoot RDS more.

I've definitely got the shooting bug back.  Both handguns and rifle.  Thanks to "a friend" to mentioned that they were gonna shoot the match this past weekend and was the light to get off my ass and get back in the game.  Most of my concerns about getting back into the matches didn't come up or at least wasn't something I was able to work through/around to at least some level of personal satisfaction.  In any case, another great day on the range shared with excellent shooters.   :thumbsup:

macsak

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2019, 05:02:51 PM »
Not quite training, but shot a pistol match this past weekend.  Haven't shot a match in over 2 years.  Just checked my emails and I last shot in June 2017.  Work, health of a family member, own ailments, etc kept me away.  I was shooting here and there during that time, but wasn't making it out to matches like I used to.  I used to shoot maybe 6-8 matches a year.  My goal at one time was to shoot at least once a month.  Lots of things have changes since I last shot a match, so I was expecting a lot of rust, adjustments to the "current me", etc. 

Overall, had a really fun day on the range.  It was raining in town when I left for the range, but it was dry once I got to Niu Valley.  It was actually a relatively cool day on the range since it was overcast most of the day and had a good breeze and the rain stayed away.  The stages were a good mix of steel and paper with varying shooting stations, the latter of which was one of my main concerns going in.  Since I had not shot a match in a while, I told myself to just take it easy, so slow (hopefully smooth) and just have fun.  Of course, once that first buzzer went off, some of that mindset went out the window as the competitive side kicked back in. 

Some notes/highlights from the match:

1) I started off pretty solid scoring wise.  I think I cleaned the steel (one for one) on my first two stages and had mostly A's.  My times were, uh, respectable, but I was expecting that.  I was admittedly a little nervous prior to the first stage, but once that buzzer went off, that all went away.  My heart was racing by the end of that first stage.  While the match went smoothly, not much waiting around and squads about evenly distributed, I certainly felt a drop off in energy in the 4th and 5th stages.  I didn't feel tired, but my concentration sort of started waning.  The 4th stage was all steel and included a couple of smaller plates that seemed to be giving some shooters quite a bit of trouble (I witnessed at least one shooter run all his ammo dry on this stage).  Anyways, when I missed twice on that smaller plate, I noticed that I was prairie dogging and focus was on the plate and not my front sight.  Dammit.  After a forced respiratory pause and front sight focus, got the hit.  However, that lack of focus seemed to carry over to the 5th stage and ended up with a bunch of C's and also a mike.  Thankfully that was my only mike of the match.

2) Thanks to a couple of helpful shooters in my squad, I ended up with video of all of my stages.  Always somewhat apprehensive to watch as it can be discouraging seeing what you're actually doing.  I did notice some of my old shooting form creeping back in here and there when I was trying to focus on the hits on the smaller steel.  However, I was happy to see that most of my reloads were where they belong, and not around belt level, which is a bad habit of mine.  Video doesn't lie and overall I was happy with what I saw, but of course there were many things to work on.  Stuff like being aware of standoff to barricades, being more efficient coming "on station", etc. 

3) As mentioned above, I've been noticing changes in my eye sight lately and that was another concern.  When I was practicing at the bullseye range, it took more effort to get a crisp front sight focus.  However, during the match, the FO front sight was very bright and easy to pick up.  Or at least I didn't notice having trouble picking up the sights.

4) Be honest about how you're shooting.  I've been working on a lot of ball & dummy drills lately and it seems to have really helped.  Admittedly, it was discouraging to see the occasional (sometimes not more occasional  :( ) yank of the trigger and even flinch when encountering a misfire come through.  But no one to blame but me.  That said, there were a bunch of shooters at the match that I am sure could really benefit from some ball & dummy drills.

5) Lots of people shooting RDS.  A LOT.  I already have a Glock 17 with RMR and a Glock 19 on the way with RMR cutout.  I'm hyped to shoot RDS more.

I've definitely got the shooting bug back.  Both handguns and rifle.  Thanks to "a friend" to mentioned that they were gonna shoot the match this past weekend and was the light to get off my ass and get back in the game.  Most of my concerns about getting back into the matches didn't come up or at least wasn't something I was able to work through/around to at least some level of personal satisfaction.  In any case, another great day on the range shared with excellent shooters.   :thumbsup:

just watched a friends video
lot of short stubby steps and bring the gun down while moving to the next shooting station
and stomach high reloads...

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2019, 07:47:17 PM »
just watched a friends video
lot of short stubby steps and bring the gun down while moving to the next shooting station
and stomach high reloads...
I had some of the bringing the gun down in between stations being mindful of the 180 degree rule. Not too bad though. I need to be better about getting to the station with feet and then punching out. :facepalm:

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #97 on: December 03, 2019, 09:13:27 AM »
For the past month, I've been helping a buddy who teaches a self-defense class.  He's been teaching this class for about a year now and having me around helps with someone to demonstrate many of the techniques, as well as a (somewhat) experienced person working with the students.  This class has a very diverse group of people that attend and many times has folks who just want to try a class or too.  So that leads to a class that includes those who haven't done any training to those who have some background in training.  I trained with my buddy in another class for maybe 3-4 years prior to him doing his own thing, so I'm pretty familiar with most of that he's teaching.  It also provides a good opportunity to get out and do some training as well as foster self-defense training. 

Anyways, relevance to this thread is that now that I've been helping on the instruction/teaching side of my buddy's class, I see a LOT of parallels to firearms training.  Here are some of the parallels that I've noticed:

1) Prior experience level and how quickly or readily they absorb the techniques are very similar.  I've found that those with little experience but with an open mind tend to pick up the techniques quickly.  Whereas those who have some to quite a bit of experience tend to focus on either what they THINK they are doing or want to explain how they think it should go instead of observing and learning the technique.  Same with firearm training habits, I understand that it can take time and a lot of reps to break a habit, but an open mind to try it is key. 

2) Good repetitions are key.  In many of the self-defense techniques, there are "setup" steps along the way with an ultimate end state.  Be it a knife or gun disarm, punch deflect and counter, etc.  Say a given technique has 5 steps and ends with a knife disarm.  Many often tend to want to rush through steps 1-3 in their focus on 4-5.  A parallel for me is training working the safety on AR reloads.  I can get it with deliberate reps, but then when adding say a course of fire after that, my mind is so focused on the course of fire that I notice fumbling the manipulation of the safety.  So I could use more GOOD reps to get that skill down as opposed to ingraining another bad habit. 

3) Just because you can perform a skill doesn't make you good at teaching the skill.  Breaking them down to teach a whole other skill.  In this class, I would say I know most of the techniques and how to teach them.  But there are still many that I know how to do, but I seem to struggle breaking them down and teaching someone who just isn't getting it.  Part of that is that I was I took a break from that kind of training for over a year, but the other part is teaching is a whole different level.  I think the teaching aspect is really helping me get back into thing quicker. 

4) Women tend to pick up skills quicker than men, as long as they have an "I can" or "will try" attitude, and not "I am only here because my husband wants me to be here".  Many of the self-defense techniques are quite effective in a smaller person defending themselves against a larger person.  When they see that and the light bulb goes off that they can, it's an awesome feeling.  However, same with firearms training, most men come into things with sort of "ah, I already know how to do this" and usually that means their mind isn't open to instruction. 

5) On more of a personal level, recent back issues has affected me physically with many "lingering" effects.  That has affected what I feel my capabilities are in both shooting and self-defense training.  Getting back into both at a gradual level has shown me that I just need to work through things and find a way to make it work with what I've got.  We aren't getting any younger, so just have to make the best with what we've got.  I'll never go back to how I used to be and while I am definitely feeling the effects of aging more lately, consistent training can hopefully help me make the best of what I've got.

macsak

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #98 on: December 03, 2019, 10:32:40 AM »
For the past month, I've been helping a buddy who teaches a self-defense class.  He's been teaching this class for about a year now and having me around helps with someone to demonstrate many of the techniques, as well as a (somewhat) experienced person working with the students.  This class has a very diverse group of people that attend and many times has folks who just want to try a class or too.  So that leads to a class that includes those who haven't done any training to those who have some background in training.  I trained with my buddy in another class for maybe 3-4 years prior to him doing his own thing, so I'm pretty familiar with most of that he's teaching.  It also provides a good opportunity to get out and do some training as well as foster self-defense training. 

Anyways, relevance to this thread is that now that I've been helping on the instruction/teaching side of my buddy's class, I see a LOT of parallels to firearms training.  Here are some of the parallels that I've noticed:

1) Prior experience level and how quickly or readily they absorb the techniques are very similar.  I've found that those with little experience but with an open mind tend to pick up the techniques quickly.  Whereas those who have some to quite a bit of experience tend to focus on either what they THINK they are doing or want to explain how they think it should go instead of observing and learning the technique.  Same with firearm training habits, I understand that it can take time and a lot of reps to break a habit, but an open mind to try it is key. 

2) Good repetitions are key.  In many of the self-defense techniques, there are "setup" steps along the way with an ultimate end state.  Be it a knife or gun disarm, punch deflect and counter, etc.  Say a given technique has 5 steps and ends with a knife disarm.  Many often tend to want to rush through steps 1-3 in their focus on 4-5.  A parallel for me is training working the safety on AR reloads.  I can get it with deliberate reps, but then when adding say a course of fire after that, my mind is so focused on the course of fire that I notice fumbling the manipulation of the safety.  So I could use more GOOD reps to get that skill down as opposed to ingraining another bad habit. 

3) Just because you can perform a skill doesn't make you good at teaching the skill.  Breaking them down to teach a whole other skill.  In this class, I would say I know most of the techniques and how to teach them.  But there are still many that I know how to do, but I seem to struggle breaking them down and teaching someone who just isn't getting it.  Part of that is that I was I took a break from that kind of training for over a year, but the other part is teaching is a whole different level.  I think the teaching aspect is really helping me get back into thing quicker. 

4) Women tend to pick up skills quicker than men, as long as they have an "I can" or "will try" attitude, and not "I am only here because my husband wants me to be here".  Many of the self-defense techniques are quite effective in a smaller person defending themselves against a larger person.  When they see that and the light bulb goes off that they can, it's an awesome feeling.  However, same with firearms training, most men come into things with sort of "ah, I already know how to do this" and usually that means their mind isn't open to instruction. 

5) On more of a personal level, recent back issues has affected me physically with many "lingering" effects.  That has affected what I feel my capabilities are in both shooting and self-defense training.  Getting back into both at a gradual level has shown me that I just need to work through things and find a way to make it work with what I've got.  We aren't getting any younger, so just have to make the best with what we've got.  I'll never go back to how I used to be and while I am definitely feeling the effects of aging more lately, consistent training can hopefully help me make the best of what I've got.

#truth

changemyoil66

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2019, 02:58:56 PM »
Is there a link to the rules?  Sounds like something I wanna try at least once.  But I will be shooting factory range ammo, and not that soft on the hands stuff.