Can anyone tell me what the democrats want exactly?

Are they referring to person to person sales?

Can anyone tell me what the democrats want exactly?

Are they referring to person to person sales?

For all sales.  What they don't tell you and what most don't know is it would require national firearm registration and transactions would go through a FFL or government agency like what Hawaii does.

Can anyone tell me what the democrats want exactly?

Are they referring to person to person sales?

Haha. You think you could pin any of these people down to actually tell you what they really want? What they really want is total civilian disarmament (as per former SCOTUS justice Stevens N.Y. Times editorial re "Repeal the Second Amendment"). Whatever they might say it ("universal background checks", "assault weapon", "gun violence", etc.) means at at any particular time in any particular location in just a moment in time for the ever changing incrementalism of "a good first step". And as voiced at the D.C. protest a few weeks ago "When they give us that inch, that bump stock ban [feel free to substitute any other "commonsense gun violence prevention regulation"], we will take a mile."

For all sales.  What they don't tell you and what most don't know is it would require national firearm registration and transactions would go through a FFL or government agency like what Hawaii does.

Another thing they "forget" to mention, as has already been legislated in several locations, is that it applies to any "transfer", not just "sales". So if you lend your gun to someone, or in some cases even momentarily hand it to them anywhere other than possibly exempted locations (range, designated hunting area, etc.) you need to go to a FFL and undergo a background check, and then go back and have another check in order for it to legally be "transferred" back to you. Tell me how that is "a commonsense gun violence prevention regulation". 

Can anyone tell me what the democrats want exactly?

Are they referring to person to person sales?

They want everything

Can anyone tell me what the democrats want exactly?

Are they referring to person to person sales?

Universal Background Checks is a catch phrase that means different things depending on who you ask.  Most of the people calling for it don't understand what the current background checks are, and that they absolutely would have prevented at least 3 recent mass shooters from legally buying a gun had the government followed the laws and procedures in place now.

They also haven't looked at the laws the FBI and NICS have to follow. 

In a nutshell, the general definition of Universal Background Check (UBC) is no transfers of firearms can be completed without a background check on the transferee. 

Holes in this agenda item include:

1)  the FBI's lack of mandate and resources to do an NICS check for anything other than FFL retail sales,
2)  lack of enforceability in states that don't have 100% firearm registration laws,
3)  inability to include a mental health records check in most instances that only permit a 3-day waiting period,
4)  the failure on the part of NICS to adjudicate a BG check request in 3 days results in a default approval -- failure to properly report/manage records used by NICS.

NV already passed a UBC law, but the "news" jockeys aren't highlighting it for the simple reason it failed as soon as it was implemented.  Why?  Because of the points above.

The reasons the UBC scheme was destined to fail were explained time and again by the NRA leadership every time it was discussed.  Guess what?  Wayne was 100% correct.  Passing the law does nothing when the existing system is already broken.  You're just making more people become part of a broken system that currently has more false negative responses (denying people their right due to some mistake) versus stopping potentially bad people from acquiring guns.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nevada-law-background-checks-gun-purchases-not-enforced/

Bottom line:  Gun Control supporters have an agenda.  Their solutions are short-shighted and solve no real problems.  They trust that the government will keep them safe if only we didn't care so much about our rights.  Factual evidence that proves their solutions don't work means we need MORE laws and STRICTER restrictions on guns, not fewer.

Thanks for the info. I just want to have my facts straight when responding to anti-2a friends when the mention UBC.  I don't trust "google" as much anymore.

Thanks for the info. I just want to have my facts straight when responding to anti-2a friends when the mention UBC.  I don't trust "google" as much anymore.

I've heard NPR consistently say that anyone, anywhere in the US can get a firearm from a gun show from a gun dealer without a background check.  That is what they are saying is a loop hole.  That's a completely incorrect statement and they dont correct it when you tell them. 

So many people think that anyone can buy a firearm on the street or at a gun show without a background check. 

If you want to educate your friends, print the list of records in the NICS database and show them all the states that list zero records.  Why do a background check if the state reports no one who should not buy a firearm to the background check database.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-records-in-the-nics-indices-by-state.pdf/view

Montana has only 38 records in the entire background check database.  Wyoming only has 51.  You dont need a background check database operated by the FBI if it only has 38 names in it.  You would just print it and give it to the guns dealers

I've heard NPR consistently say that anyone, anywhere in the US can get a firearm from a gun show from a gun dealer without a background check.  That is what they are saying is a loop hole.  That's a completely incorrect statement and they dont correct it when you tell them. 

So many people think that anyone can buy a firearm on the street or at a gun show without a background check. 

You can purchase a gun from individuals (without a FFL) in most state's without a background check, at a gun show or anywhere.  The background checks only apply when purchasing from FFLs in most cases.

Hawaii is a unique case where background checks are required for all firearm transactions from anyone.

You can purchase a gun from individuals (without a FFL) in most state's without a background check, at a gun show or anywhere.  The background checks only apply when purchasing from FFLs in most cases.

Hawaii is a unique case where background checks are required for all firearm transactions from anyone.

Hawaii is not unique in that respect.

From "Giffords Law Center", and they should know...

Nine states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington) and DC require universal background checks at the point of sale for all sales and transfers of all classes of firearms, whether they are purchased from a licensed dealer or an unlicensed seller.38 (Note, however, that Nevada’s background check law, enacted through a voter ballot initiative in 2016, has not yet been implemented).39

Two more states, Maryland and Pennsylvania, require point of sale background checks for handguns but not for long guns, like rifles and shotguns.

Instead of a point of sale background check, four states (Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, and New Jersey) require all firearm purchasers to obtain a permit, issued after a background check, in order to buy any firearm. Four more states (Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, and North Carolina) have this permit and background check requirement for the purchase of handguns, but not long guns. Illinois also requires a point of sale background check whenever a firearm is sold at a gun show.

If you want to educate your friends, print the list of records in the NICS database and show them all the states that list zero records.  Why do a background check if the state reports no one who should not buy a firearm to the background check database.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-records-in-the-nics-indices-by-state.pdf/view

Montana has only 38 records in the entire background check database.  Wyoming only has 51.  You dont need a background check database operated by the FBI if it only has 38 names in it.  You would just print it and give it to the guns dealers

If you haven't, you gotta check out this list.
Then start laughing ( or crying)
It's fu{*^ng comical.  (Or tragic)
How many states have no felons but thousands mentally adjudicated.  ( including Hawaii)
Just check it out.
The comments on this list alone would fill a thread.

Universal background check. SMH.

( thanks for that post Tillamook)

Wait so Hawaii has ZERO felons or is it zero felons tried to buy  a gun via FFL?

Yeah?
And what's NCIC and III and how do they tie into instant background checks?

You can purchase a gun from individuals (without a FFL) in most state's without a background check, at a gun show or anywhere.  The background checks only apply when purchasing from FFLs in most cases.

Hawaii is a unique case where background checks are required for all firearm transactions from anyone.

They definitely said from a dealer at a gun show.  I'm familiar with the individual sale at a gun show though even Oregon outlawed that many years ago.  This report was also after Oregon made universal background checks a law. 

Just pointing out that NPR made a blatant mistake and many people get all their information from the news. 

Wait so Hawaii has ZERO felons or is it zero felons tried to buy  a gun via FFL?

This is a list of numbers of everyone on the background check list, not just people who tried to buy a gun.  Felons are also reported a separate way from the courts which is on the bottom of that pdf. 

But look at the rest of the list,  so many states reporting no one to the background check list.  There are seriously only 3 people with domestic violence conviction in all of the history of Hawaii as on this list?   

This is why we say "we want the existing laws enforced, not new laws"   They want to push universal background checks and we need to say "why" the list is massively broken as it is.  fix this first"

This is a list of numbers of everyone on the background check list, not just people who tried to buy a gun.  Felons are also reported a separate way from the courts which is on the bottom of that pdf. 

But look at the rest of the list,  so many states reporting no one to the background check list.  There are seriously only 3 people with domestic violence conviction in all of the history of Hawaii as on this list?   

This is why we say "we want the existing laws enforced, not new laws"   They want to push universal background checks and we need to say "why" the list is massively broken as it is.  fix this first"

The "existing laws" don't require all states to report this information to the FBI for NICS use.  Of those states reporting, either by state law or voluntarily, there is a massive backlog of up to 6-12 months for entering the reported data into NICS databases.

Some states have passed laws requiring it, but it's still full of holes.  Only the people who have encountered law enforcement or a mental health facility/department will be in the system.  Those who fall through those nets will never be counted and prohibited from buying firearms. 

Then there's the decision by the Obama DOJ to purge tens of thousands of fugitives from the NICS database.  Under the narrowed definition, gun purchases can only be denied to fugitives who have crossed state lines to avoid prosecution for a crime or to avoid giving testimony in a criminal proceeding. The change makes it possible for someone with an outstanding warrant who would have previously been prohibited from buying a firearm to obtain one, unless barred for some other reason.

Government lists never seem to do what was supposedly intended. "Let's get the law passed, and we'll figure out how to make it work later."