SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative? (Read 10464 times)

eyeeatingfish

Just heard this one on the radio driving home and rather disappointed.
The SCOTUS heard a case involving cell phone location data and whether cops need a search warrant. The 4 liberal judges and 1 conservative judge said a search warrant was needed while the other 4 "conservative" judges wrote strong opinions against the ruling. It wasn't even a hardline decision either, they aid police will "generally" need a search warrant.

So we elect republicans in hopes of protecting our 2nd amendment rights but seem to be giving up our 4th amendment rights in exchange.  :wtf:

changemyoil66

giving up our 4th amendment rights in exchange.  :wtf:

Wasn't the ruling stating that they do need a warrant for location tracking on cells?  So wouldn't we be gaining more 4th amendment rights?

Unless the FISA excuse is used with the rubber stamp...

ren



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Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

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Deeds Not Words

mrgaf

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To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

ren

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Deeds Not Words

eyeeatingfish

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Just because it is third party doesn't mean we should lose any right to privacy. Cell phones have sort of become a unique thing in society and aren't comparable to bank records. We are expected to have cell phones now and many of us have to have them for our jobs. Yes, technically the data belongs to the company but you don't really have the choice to opt out. Cell phone location data provides an around the clock record of where you were. We are so afraid of having our guns tracked by the government but we don't care that our service providers will just give away our information to the government?

When you lease a car or have a mortgage on a home the bank is still on the record, so why can't they consent to police searching your home or car? I rent my condo out to someone, maybe I can give police permission to go into the condo  since I am a third party.  Why not stop with location data, might as well let private companies release all communications you have ever sent with your phone, emails, texts, photos, videos.

I get that it is a useful crime fighting tool, but if the information is that important, just ask for a search warrant. The data isn't going anywhere so there is no rush.

eyeeatingfish

Wasn't the ruling stating that they do need a warrant for location tracking on cells?  So wouldn't we be gaining more 4th amendment rights?

Unless the FISA excuse is used with the rubber stamp...

Yes, the ruling reinforced our 4th amendment rights, but my point was that the conservative republican judges who are supposed to be upholding the constitution voted in a way that would have eroded our rights, not reinforced them. It was the liberal judges who voted to protect our rights, that is the problem I have.

ren

My first thank you to Democrats  :shaka:
Deeds Not Words

eyeeatingfish

Re: SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2018, 09:19:32 PM »
My first thank you to Democrats  :shaka:

It's not the first time republicans have wanted to throw out constitutional protections.

ren

Re: SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2018, 09:24:23 PM »
It's not the first time republicans have wanted to throw out constitutional protections.

throw the republicans out too  :thumbsup:
Deeds Not Words

PeaShooter

Re: SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative?
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2018, 02:56:36 PM »
I already noted in previous years that the liberal judges were the ones generally upholding our constitutional rights, or at least leaning more towards that end. The conservative judges have been garbage on everything except the second amendment. I have no faith in the US government or its legal system. In reality I might say we have no rights at all and the constitution is a sham to keep the populace feeling positive about this country.

eyeeatingfish

Re: SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2018, 03:11:10 PM »
throw the republicans out too  :thumbsup:

Sigh, if only it were as easy as that :(

ren

Re: SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2018, 04:24:24 PM »
Sigh, if only it were as easy as that :(

What?! You live in Hawaii. All I see are Smurfs now. Pointless being a Republican here or anything else other than a Democrat.
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative?
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2018, 10:55:56 PM »
The lack of understanding here of the details contained in not just the Supreme Court ruling, but also the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling which it upheld, is creating an unfounded concern over privacy..

The location data being collected by law enforcement in this case is not what you think it is.

Plus, there is existing law which allowed LE to collect the data under a Court Order, which has no probable cause requirement, but does have the test for justification:

Quote
It acquired those records pursuant to a court order under the Stored Communications Act,
which required the Government to show “reasonable grounds” for believing that the records were
“relevant and material to an ongoing investigation.” 18 U. S. C. §2703(d).


As for 4th amendment, it's YOUR responsibility to be careful you don't allow LE to collect the data, not the 3rd party's. Unless the provider has a contract with you that states they will not release your info without a warrant, you have no expectation they won't.

When you turn on a cell phone, the phone registers with a cell tower. When you move, the signal registers with towers in the next area, and the next and so on.

By connecting with the service, you are tacitly giving permission for the cell company to use that position information for billing roaming charges, selling the aggregate data for analysis, used by the company and contractors to spot coverage issues, and so forth.

While GPS information can place you in a church, sex shop, strip club, gay bar, mosque, synagogue, government building, etc, the information in this case is nowhere near that accurate. It can place you in an area within a certain radius at a given time for a given duration. That's all. No lat/long, and no specific building/space.

So, 4th amendment is not an issue. You are not being "tracked" to places you visit. You are only being placed in the vicinity of a cell tower.  It's normal cell activity for service providers.

If you don't like it, get a burner phone, or take the battery out of your cell when you don't want to reveal the vicinity you're in. 

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-402_h315.pdf

https://www.leagle.com/decision/infco20160413094
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative?
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2018, 11:04:04 AM »
Conservatives generally read the constitution for what it is, like 2a for gun rights.  Liberals see the const as a living document that can be interpreted in different ways even if its not explicitly written.

There is no general right to privacy written in the bill of rights.  There is the 4th which says police can't search for things on you or your home and secured containers.  There is nothing that says police can't follow you.  Also nothing that says private companies can't voluntarily give your information to law enforcement.

The right to privacy in this case is a liberal philosophy hence the scotus ruling.

Sorry to break the bad news to you guys, but you conservatives are actually liberal.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 11:09:09 AM by zippz »

changemyoil66

Re: SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative?
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2018, 11:17:45 AM »
  Also nothing that says private companies can't voluntarily give your information to law enforcement.


^^^This, bill of rights so the government can't censor/take rights away.  Nothing that states private businesses can't do it. 

zippz

Re: SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative?
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2018, 12:02:59 PM »
A couple more points.  Conservatives side on the police state where security overrules privacy.
And although they generally trend towards smaller government and independence in theory, even a small government can keep a close watch on its citizens.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: SCOTUS search warrant decision... Republicans no longer conservative?
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2018, 01:39:29 PM »
A couple more points.  Conservatives side on the police state where security overrules privacy.
And although they generally trend towards smaller government and independence in theory, even a small government can keep a close watch on its citizens.

Liberals should be constantly monitored -- audio, video, and electronic surveillance should be the norm.   :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw