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Open Carry Workshops if Passed (Read 7750 times)

changemyoil66

Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« on: July 25, 2018, 10:59:02 AM »
Figure it would be good as a new thread.

Seems like comments online are 50/50.  And of the 50% that don't support open carry are under the impression that someone can shoot them for what ever reason.  They don't know there is still a use of deadly force law, and duty to retreat law.  They didn't even think about rape victims or anything.  Just "I saw a gun on a hip, I will get killed" attitude.

So if we get more residents to truly understand it, maybe more will be OK with it.  I have turned some views on FB, but not all.  London does what he can to answer comments as well.  Thank you.

This might be jumping the gun (pun intended), but just a future thought.  Need to get the media involved and organizations (once law passes, they might be more open to it).  I know Xring is offering a free woman's class next month.
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eyeeatingfish

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2018, 05:50:55 PM »
I highly recommend an actual class on defensive shooting for anyone who wants to carry a firearm. Part practical exercise and part covering the legal side.
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RSN172

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2018, 09:42:25 PM »
Many of us have already done so in order to obtain our cc permits for various states in the CONUS.  I am going to take it again in October because FS requires you to take the class every two years if you want to take their higher level classes.  I agree with you.  Anyone who has not taken a formal cc class should do so.  FS also covers open carry in that class and why cc is generally better and safer in an urban setting.
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Happily living in Puna

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2018, 09:56:18 PM »
Quote from: RSN172 on July 26, 2018, 09:42:25 PM
Many of us have already done so in order to obtain our cc permits for various states in the CONUS.  I am going to take it again in October because FS requires you to take the class every two years if you want to take their higher level classes.  I agree with you.  Anyone who has not taken a formal cc class should do so.  FS also covers open carry in that class and why cc is generally better and safer in an urban setting.

The 4-day Defensive Handgun Course was a combo of open & concealed.  To do well in the test, we had to use concealed clothing over an OTW holster.  Most of the time we practiced open carry only, but toward the end, we started wearing jackets, vests, T-shirts and sweatshirts over the holster to practice drawing from a concealed holster.

I believe if we opted to take the final test without concealed carry, we couldn't get a "GRADUATE" or "DISTINGUISHED GRADUATE" certificate.  Lowest level is "Certificate of Achievement".

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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2018, 10:06:49 PM »
If anyone is considering taking the Defensive Handgun class at Front Sight, I'd highly recommend getting the videos and instructions for the malfunction drills. They are timed, and the steps must all be done quickly and in exact order.  You need to be near perfect, or you will not get the DG Certificate and go on to the advanced classes. 

Maybe if you scored 100% on the rest of the test, you might have a chance at DG, but that's very unlikely.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2018, 09:20:19 PM »
DIfference between CCW & Open Carry is for OC you need to be in a higher level of situational awareness all the time and know weapons retention/grapling skills.
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RSN172

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2018, 04:57:55 AM »
As much as I hate them, if open carry became law here, I would buy a retention holster.  And yes it is or will be very important to learn grappling and weapon retention skills.
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Happily living in Puna

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2018, 11:17:59 AM »
Quote from: RSN172 on August 01, 2018, 04:57:55 AM
As much as I hate them, if open carry became law here, I would buy a retention holster.  And yes it is or will be very important to learn grappling and weapon retention skills.

I have the Safariland ALS 6378 concealable holster for several pistols. There are many options, depending on the retention level, rise, and accessories you need/desire.  The holster is lined with a soft material to prevent marking the gun's finish.

Plenty of mounting options, so you should be able to find what works for you.

http://www.safariland.com/products/holsters-and-gear/holsters/concealable-holsters/paddle/model-6378-als-paddle-holster-23341.html#start=1


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2018, 11:36:10 AM »
I have a bunch of the Safariland ALS holsters. Mostly the 7ts and others. They are very easy to learn, quick on the draw and pretty secure retention. I used to use the SLS holsters, but I’ve found that I like the ALS much better now.

They have “concealment” versions, but they are still quite bulky. But I guess that’s relative to holsters like RCS OWB holsters.
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changemyoil66

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 12:44:37 PM »
I meant a workshop for the public who do not understand our laws.  Especially use of deadly force.  This way they don't get all freaked out when they see someone open carrying.

But I can see the workshop getting out of hand and some aunty getting all nuts.
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ren

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 01:16:44 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on August 01, 2018, 12:44:37 PM
I meant a workshop for the public who do not understand our laws.  Especially use of deadly force.  This way they don't get all freaked out when they see someone open carrying.

But I can see the workshop getting out of hand and some aunty getting all nuts.

Maybe if you tied this into a Bruno Mars concert. I don't see the general public caring about learning what open carry is. Cynic as I am, they will educate themselves with Hollywood offerings, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and their emotions.
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Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2018, 04:09:33 PM »
Quote from: ren on August 01, 2018, 01:16:44 PM
Maybe if you tied this into a Bruno Mars concert. I don't see the general public caring about learning what open carry is. Cynic as I am, they will educate themselves with Hollywood offerings, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and their emotions.

The general public is too lazy to look up simple gun-related vocabulary, like clip, magazine, shroud or automatic. It's impossible to think they would take time to go to a workshop without a real interest in firearms.

Maybe instead of an Open Carry workshop, you call it a "Common Sense Gun Control Event".  Then when they show up, start the real lecture on open carry.

Door prizes, refreshments and door guards at all the exits might be helpful.   :thumbsup:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2018, 04:20:14 PM »
General public wont go to a workshop.  Better options are public service announcements on TV and social media, and short info briefing at all of the neighborhood boards.
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Rocky

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2018, 07:21:08 PM »
Quote from: RSN172 on August 01, 2018, 04:57:55 AM
As much as I hate them, if open carry became law here, I would buy a retention holster.  And yes it is or will be very important to learn grappling and weapon retention skills.
I don't hate them. I have Safari SLS and it's just a matter of practice, practice, practice.
But I totally agree with you on grappling and weapon retention skills but with a side of dis-armament.
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“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

changemyoil66

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2018, 09:06:17 PM »
Quote from: Rocky on August 01, 2018, 07:21:08 PM
I don't hate them. I have Safari SLS and it's just a matter of practice, practice, practice.
But I totally agree with you on grappling and weapon retention skills but with a side of dis-armament.
"Crush everything"

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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drck1000

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2018, 07:13:59 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on August 01, 2018, 12:44:37 PM
I meant a workshop for the public who do not understand our laws.  Especially use of deadly force.  This way they don't get all freaked out when they see someone open carrying.

But I can see the workshop getting out of hand and some aunty getting all nuts.
I applaud your effort and I think the public needs to be better educated on laws, used of deadly force, misconceptions of firearms, etc.  That said, see mostly folks who already know most of that and support gun rights that will attend.  One good way I see is for the pro-2A folks to bring a neutral or even anti-2A person that they know.  One risk I see is anti-2A folks attending to make a point, cause a scene and get it on video.  That you have to be prepared for that, through on point information and being able to reason with them.  It's the reasoning part that I think is nearly impossible. 

I try to do this on a more personal level with folks that I feel receptive to learning about firearms.  I've found that the irrational anti-2A folks just don't want to hear it.  The closest I get to those is when I have a buddy that likes to shoot, but his wife is anti-gun.  If he brings things up, I'll support him and try to reason with the anti-gun wife.  However, I've found that that is like talking about politics and religion.  I admit that I could to better on brushing up on my solid facts and debating skills, but I've often found that those anti-2A folks just won't be swayed by facts.  Their minds have been poisoned by the BS MSM has been pushing about guns for so long.  I mean I'll still try, but in many cases not worth it.  I tend to want to focus my energies on helping those who a new to shooting or supporting 2A.  Thankfully, I'm seeing more and more these days. 
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drck1000

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2018, 07:24:44 AM »
Quote from: Rocky on August 01, 2018, 07:21:08 PM
I don't hate them. I have Safari SLS and it's just a matter of practice, practice, practice.
But I totally agree with you on grappling and weapon retention skills but with a side of dis-armament.
There are so many gun encounters shown on FB, YouTube, etc where I've noticed if folks have some basic gun disarm techniques, the could have easily disarmed the attacker.  They always tend to want to put the gun in the face of the person with an outstretched arm and puts the gun well within reach.  Like that video of the guy that was sitting along a fence around what looked like a park.  Then a smaller guy comes out with a gun, pointing it at the guy who is sitting in that classic gansta grip and put it near his face.  The guy sitting seemed pretty cool and didn't panic, but there were many opportunities for him to do a disarm. 

I've never faced down the barrel of a gun and I hope I never will, so I can't say for sure what I would do.  Maybe I might freeze in fear.  Who knows.  But my point is some basic techniques and practiced could make all the difference. 

We've done them the yellow training barrels that you can put in Glocks so you can practice tap-rack stuff.  But it also allows the attacker to try to pull the trigger and see if your disarm would have been effective. We've done it with airsoft a few times, but not everyone has the protective gear.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2018, 08:36:34 AM »
Quote from: drck1000 on August 02, 2018, 07:24:44 AM
There are so many gun encounters shown on FB, YouTube, etc where I've noticed if folks have some basic gun disarm techniques, the could have easily disarmed the attacker.  They always tend to want to put the gun in the face of the person with an outstretched arm and puts the gun well within reach.  Like that video of the guy that was sitting along a fence around what looked like a park.  Then a smaller guy comes out with a gun, pointing it at the guy who is sitting in that classic gansta grip and put it near his face.  The guy sitting seemed pretty cool and didn't panic, but there were many opportunities for him to do a disarm. 

I've never faced down the barrel of a gun and I hope I never will, so I can't say for sure what I would do.  Maybe I might freeze in fear.  Who knows.  But my point is some basic techniques and practiced could make all the difference. 

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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2018, 08:53:45 AM »
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drck1000

Re: Open Carry Workshops if Passed
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2018, 08:56:19 AM »


This was a pretty good one.  Lots of lessons to be learned here.  That cashier was super calm. . . 

I'm pretty sure he didn't see the malfunction.  Not that I would have seen it TBH. 
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