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And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy. (Read 15607 times)

Flapp_Jackson

And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« on: August 10, 2018, 03:35:48 PM »
There will be no third trial for federal agent Christopher Deedy

Quote
HONOLULU (KHON2) - There will be no third trial for federal agent Christopher Deedy.

On Friday, U.S. District Judge Derrick Watson issued an order that the state may not proceed with Deedy's
October 2018 retrial on reckless manslaughter or any included offenses without violating constitutional prohibitions.

"After careful review of the record, arguments of counsel, and consideration of the relevant authorities, including
the Supreme Court’s decision in Evans v. Michigan, 568 U.S. 313 (2013), the circuit court’s determination of the
absence of evidence of recklessness, and resulting decision not to instruct or submit the reckless manslaughter
claim to the jury during the first trial, is an 'acquittal' for purposes of double jeopardy."

Deedy is accused of killing Kollin Elderts at a Waikiki McDonalds in 2011. He was assigned to provide security during
the APEC conference in Waikiki.

His first trial ended in a mistrial. The second time around, he was found not guilty of murder but jurors could not agree
on the lesser charge of manslaughter.

https://www.khon2.com/news/local-news/there-will-be-no-third-trial-for-federal-agent-christopher-deedy/1360031571
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 03:39:34 PM »
 :shaka: I approve of that message.
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Happily living in Puna

mikenkapolei

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 04:05:02 PM »
Quote from: RSN172 on August 10, 2018, 03:39:34 PM
:shaka: I approve of that message.
ditto that.  Unfortunately this decision will be appealed...it's not over yet.
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mrgaf

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 04:18:36 PM »
Quote from: mikenkapolei on August 10, 2018, 04:05:02 PM
ditto that.  Unfortunately this decision will be appealed...it's not over yet.

10-4 Mike.... this still ain’t over.....hopefully it is though.... :closed:
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To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

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macsak

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2018, 04:30:19 PM »
Quote from: mikenkapolei on August 10, 2018, 04:05:02 PM
ditto that.  Unfortunately this decision will be appealed...it's not over yet.

yup, the AG or state/circuit court judge will sue/appeal, most likely blaming the whole thing on trump
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ren

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 05:07:08 PM »
Can we try OJ Simpson again? The ratings were off the hook! ;D
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Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 06:32:49 PM »
Quote from: mikenkapolei on August 10, 2018, 04:05:02 PM
ditto that.  Unfortunately this decision will be appealed...it's not over yet.

There are lots of reasons I don't think they will appeal this. After 7 years, it's time to drop it.

The Circuit Court ruled any attempt to refile would be unconstitutional under double jeopardy.

They can waste more money appealing it, but my opinion since the end of the second trial was the same: being found not guilty on one count and unable to come to agreement on a lesser charge should have ended this case with an acquittal.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

rklapp

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 06:48:37 PM »
Quote from: ren on August 10, 2018, 05:07:08 PM
Can we try OJ Simpson again? The ratings were off the hook! ;D
It was too bad when they canceled that show. The Dancing Itos were funny. Apparently, the law school the prosecutors went to didn't cover double jeopardy.

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Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

Gordyf

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2018, 07:11:26 PM »
Curious, from the same judge that struck down one of the Trump Travel bans.
Great stuff. I hope it holds.
Aloha
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Aloha
Gordy

changemyoil66

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2018, 07:23:07 PM »
The SS has a hell of a PR firm. Little to no mention in all the years on world news.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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ren

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2018, 07:38:31 PM »
Kaniela Ing was there :rofl:
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Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2018, 08:39:51 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on August 10, 2018, 07:23:07 PM
The SS has a hell of a PR firm. Little to no mention in all the years on world news.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

They aren't called the Secret Service for nothing!   :rofl:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

z06psi

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 09:22:46 AM »
Elders was a drunk/high thug who picked on the wrong person after running his mouth. 

That was a stand your ground case but the screwed up laws in Hawaii don't allow humans to protect themselves from thugs.  Hence why the local thugs go around pounding their chests.
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zippz

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 09:30:54 AM »
Hypotheticaly same case but there is clear evidence that Deedy commited manslaughter.  Would you support or not support a 3rd trial?
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 10:23:48 AM »
Quote from: zippz on August 12, 2018, 09:30:54 AM
Hypotheticaly same case but there is clear evidence that Deedy commited manslaughter.  Would you support or not support a 3rd trial?

Hypothetically, the prosecution would have tried him for the correct charge the first time. There should have never been a second trial, much less a third. 

Either they had the evidence to support the manslaughter conviction, or they should have offered him a plea deal for aggravated assault.

2013 -- Tried for 2nd Degree murder. Manslaughter wasn't an option.  Resulted in a hung jury.

2014 - Acquitted of 2nd Degree murder. The jury deadlocked on lesser charges of manslaughter and assault.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2018, 12:11:14 PM »
If they went for manslaughter and loss, would it set precident for anyone using deadly force in the same situation?

Maybe thats why they never go after him for that.

Unarmed vs. Armed.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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RSN172

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2018, 04:37:25 PM »
Deedy was also legally carrying a gun.
Here is a hypothetical question.
 If you got jumped by 3 guys with knives out to commit mayhem in Waikiki and  pulled your legally owned gun and they ran when they saw the gun,  who would you say is going to be arrested and be spending the night in jail?
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Happily living in Puna

Flapp_Jackson

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2018, 05:15:22 PM »
This sounds pretty specific.  The State can't file again. 

Quote
The Supreme Court curbed this discretion in Blockburger v. United States. The Court said that the government may prosecute
an individual for more than one offense stemming from a single course of conduct only when each offense requires proof of a
fact the other does not. Blockburger requires courts to examine the elements of each offense as they are delineated by statute,
without regard to the actual evidence that will be introduced at trial. The prosecution has the burden of demonstrating that each
offense has at least one mutually exclusive element. If any one offense is completely subsumed by another, such as a lesser
included offense, the two offenses are deemed the same, and punishment is allowed only for one.

Quote
Murder Reduced to Manslaughter

Generally, murder is defined as the unlawful killing of another with malice, while manslaughter is the unlawful killing of another
without malice. However, in certain situations a charge for murder (either first or second degree) can be reduced to the lesser
crime of manslaughter. In Hawaii, the charge can be reduced if the killing was committed under the influence of an extreme mental
or emotional disturbance.

I don't see how manslaughter would be based on any facts not also included in the already acquitted charge of 2nd Degree Murder.  Same course of conduct, same set of facts, same crime essentially.

If the State AG appeals this as he said he will, he's wasting our money, IMO.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like there is wide agreement across many lawyers that double jeopardy attaches unless the charges are fundamentally different.  Murder and manslaughter are essentially the same except for one additional element for murder: malice.

Had the AG not included manslaughter as a lesser included charge in trial #2 and only charged 2nd Degree Murder, does anyone thing he could come back and refile manslaughter charges for the same crime? Of course not.  The fact manslaughter was included in the trial as an option is irrelevant, regardless of the jury being deadlocked.  You shouldn't be allowed to include lesser charges as a "shoehorn" around the Constitution to refile if the primary charge is dismissed.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 11:39:16 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

rklapp

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2018, 09:09:45 PM »
So technically, he was never acquitted of manslaughter. However (AFAIK), double jeopardy is supposed to prevent the prosecutor from trying lesser charges in subsequent trials until one finally sticks. The prosecutor is supposed to look at the evidence at hand and select the charge that fits the crime. The courts are not a buffet with a pile of clean plates for each trip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy
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Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

justin1098

Re: And, It's Finally Over. No Third Trial for Deedy.
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2018, 10:10:52 PM »
This whole thing was making Hawaii look like a third world S-hole, IMO. Incompetence all around.
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