Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great" (Read 8002 times)

oldfart

What, Me Worry?

Kuleana

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2018, 10:25:11 AM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cuomo-america-was-never-that-great/ar-BBLYIOW

What a jerk :rofl:

America's greatest contribution to the World was the creation and adoption of its Constitution and Bill of Rights, which still serves as a beacon of what nations should aspire to become.

The rest of its history is no different from the other great empires in the past.  Its wars of territorial expansion, history of slavery at a time when most European and Asian nations had outlawed it years prior, extermination campaigns of Native Americans, illegal invasions and overthrows of smaller nations and installing puppet dictatorial regimes, interment camps of minorities, and etc. are but some of the examples that I am sure the framers of the US Constitution did not intend to happen in America's future.

In fact, the many quotes with respect to the long-term well-being of the US by many former US Presidents are indicative, of the examples listed above, of how the US has gone astray and have become as tyrannical as all of the other empires days gone by.


“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” – Thomas Jefferson


“When a government betrays the people by amassing too much power and becoming tyrannical, the people have no choice but to exercise the original rights of self defense – to fight the government.” – Alexander Hamilton


“The ultimate authority resides in the people, and that if the federal government got too powerful and overstepped its authority, then the people would develop plans of resistance and resort to arms.” – James Madison


“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” – Thomas Jefferson


“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it.” – Abraham Lincoln


“We, the people are rightful masters of both Congress and the courts – not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” – Abraham Lincoln


“We need a revolution every 200 years, because all governments become stale and corrupt after 200 years.” – Ben Franklin


“What country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.” – Thomas Jefferson

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2018, 10:57:02 AM »
Too often, greatness is determined by whatever definition supports the person's opinion.

America has many factors in its favor to be called "great".

Our natural resources, natural boundaries, sea ports on 2 coasts, variety of climates, attraction to immigrants wanting to flee oppression, and capitalistic society that rewards hard work and innovation helped make us great.

If you only judge the US on its methods, then of course, by today's standards, the morality of many of the government's decisions were lacking. But when you judge us on success and the willingness to share that success with the rest of the world, there's no one else that comes close.

Military might, technological advances, medical discoveries, highest standard of living for everyone including the poor, infrastructure, advancement opportunities regardless of "economic class", education, environmental protection remedial actions (smog control, litter, clean water, etc.), health and safety in the workplace, civil rights, ...  It's difficult to point to another nation that's exceeded the US in all those areas.

The US is a relatively young nation.  For us to have gone from a colony to the leading Super Power on the planet in less than 2 centuries is quite an accomplishment.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

robtmc

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2018, 11:01:54 AM »
The case may be easily made that  NYC in particular, is not really part of the USA. 

Much of the rest of the state, like a lot of the northeast, is about the same.

zippz

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2018, 11:10:43 AM »
It'll be great when he gets his wish and American becomes a communist socialist utopia.  In the meantime he's free to move to China or Venezuela.

Kuleana

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2018, 11:13:08 AM »
If you only judge the US on its methods, then of course, by today's standards, the morality of many of the government's decisions were lacking. But when you judge us on success and the willingness to share that success with the rest of the world, there's no one else that comes close.

Lacking?  Try genocide or extermination in the case of Native Americans, which how could anyone with any conscious or morality forgive?

What do you mean share the success with the rest of the World?  Last time I checked, America is the largest debtor nation on the planet.  If it shares anything, it shares its financial misery to everyone else in the World.  Moreover, if you look at America's economic history especially after the mid-20th century, you will find most of its imperial invasions and overthrows was for economic gain.  Hence, how can any American deny much of its material success since WWII was as a result of the imperial exploitation of its banana republics led by installed US puppets?



Military might, technological advances, medical discoveries, highest standard of living for everyone, including the poor, infrastructure, advancement opportunities regardless of "economic class", education, environmental protection remedial actions (smog control, litter, etc.), health and safety in the workplace, civil rights, ...  It's difficult to point to another nation that's exceeded the US in all those areas.

Similar to what I mentioned above, much of the positives you have listed came from the backs of all the peoples, whose countries were subjugated by the US.


The US is a relatively young nation.  For us to have gone from a colony to the leading Super Power on the planet in less than 2 centuries is quite an accomplishment.

Impressive, but not exclusive.  For example, modern day Germany is much younger than the US.

hvybarrels

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2018, 11:32:35 AM »
There's a lot of not-so-great parts about America, but I definitely wouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

It's great to see the Democrats imploding though. They can't take on a populist agenda without upsetting their corporate overlords, so instead all they are left with is attacking Trump.

"Trump likes America? Well gosh darn it we should attack America. Oh wait..."

Very satisfying reveal of the kind of people they are: Dogwhistle opportunists who believe in nothing
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2018, 11:39:01 AM »
...

The rest of the world trades in US dollars, because we have the highest valued and most stable currency on the planet.

Depending on what you call "modern day Germany", they owe their rise to the US.

Germany is what it is for 2 reasons: 

(1) We (the imperialistic exploiters) helped Germany after WWII.  We lead UK and France to stop plundering the German industrial base in 1950. In fact, the Cold War basically started in 1948-1949 when the Soviets blockaded Berlin.  The Berlin Wall went up in 1961 officially dividing the city and country both physically and ideologically.

Under the Marshall Plan, the US gave Western European countries $12B ($100B in 2016 dollars) for rebuilding.  Germany was in 3rd place behind UK and France, as Germany received 11% of that money.

So, without US "intervention", the state of Germany would have continued to struggle alone against Socialism.  The Berlin Wall came down because of the US.  Period.

(2) The second reason is because they were forbidden from having a large standing military.  That allowed them to redirect military funding to GDP growth.


Sorry, but comparing "modern day Germany" to the success of the US in a short time is apples and oranges.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2018, 03:10:18 PM »
The rest of the world trades in US dollars, because we have the highest valued and most stable currency on the planet.

No, the World's use of the US Dollar is as a result of the Bretton-Woods Agreement after WWII and the later agreement between the US and OPEC to only use the US Dollar for the buying and selling of oil.  As a side note, that is one of the primary reasons why Saddam and Gaddafi had their respective nations invaded as well as why Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, and Venezuela are all the proclaimed enemies by the US.  Those are the nations who have tried or are moving away from the US Dollar for trade and oil purchases.


Depending on what you call "modern day Germany", they owe their rise to the US.

Germany is what it is for 2 reasons: 

(1) We (the imperialistic exploiters) helped Germany after WWII.  We lead UK and France to stop plundering the German industrial base in 1950. In fact, the Cold War basically started in 1948-1949 when the Soviets blockaded Berlin.  The Berlin Wall went up in 1961 officially dividing the city and country both physically and ideologically.

Under the Marshall Plan, the US gave Western European countries $12B ($100B in 2016 dollars) for rebuilding.  Germany was in 3rd place behind UK and France, as Germany received 11% of that money.

So, without US "intervention", the state of Germany would have continued to struggle alone against Socialism.  The Berlin Wall came down because of the US.  Period.

(2) The second reason is because they were forbidden from having a large standing military.  That allowed them to redirect military funding to GDP growth.


Sorry, but comparing "modern day Germany" to the success of the US in a short time is apples and oranges.

The modern day Germany I was referring to was the nation state of Germany that began in 1871, when it marked the beginning of the Second Reich.  Prior to 1871, there was no nation state called Germany, there was the Kingdom of Prussia and a number of smaller German principalities.  Hence, the Germany that we know of today is much younger, as a nation state, than the US.

changemyoil66

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2018, 03:48:25 PM »
Sounds like another democrat trying to keep their job with the DNC by bashing America.

Think about it, if we were just average, why would so many people from other countries want to come here?  There are way more coming here than Americans leaving to other countries, and if we do leave, we don't apply for that countries citizenship.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2018, 04:28:55 PM »
The modern day Germany I was referring to was the nation state of Germany that began in 1871, when it marked the beginning of the Second Reich.  Prior to 1871, there was no nation state called Germany, there was the Kingdom of Prussia and a number of smaller German principalities.  Hence, the Germany that we know of today is much younger, as a nation state, than the US.

If you want to be accurate, Modern Day Germany as it exists today was founded Oct 3, 1990, when East & West Germanys were united.

Historically, you are incorrect.  Before it was called Germany, it was called Germania.

You skipped right over the First Reich.  In the years A.D. 900 (or 962 depending on the scholar) until 1806, Germany was part of the Holy Roman Empire. It was started by Charlemagne who became the first Holy Roman Emperor in 800 AD, and it lasted until 1806, the time of the Napoleonic Wars.

So, no. Germany didn't begin with Prussia.  In fact, Prussia was a state within the German Empire.  It was the largest of the states, but it was not what "became modern day Germany".
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

aieahound

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2018, 05:00:20 PM »
"Before Ze Germans get there"

« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 07:46:07 PM by aieahound »

eyeeatingfish

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2018, 12:17:25 AM »
Too often, greatness is determined by whatever definition supports the person's opinion.

America has many factors in its favor to be called "great".

Our natural resources, natural boundaries, sea ports on 2 coasts, variety of climates, attraction to immigrants wanting to flee oppression, and capitalistic society that rewards hard work and innovation helped make us great.

If you only judge the US on its methods, then of course, by today's standards, the morality of many of the government's decisions were lacking. But when you judge us on success and the willingness to share that success with the rest of the world, there's no one else that comes close.

Military might, technological advances, medical discoveries, highest standard of living for everyone including the poor, infrastructure, advancement opportunities regardless of "economic class", education, environmental protection remedial actions (smog control, litter, clean water, etc.), health and safety in the workplace, civil rights, ...  It's difficult to point to another nation that's exceeded the US in all those areas.

The US is a relatively young nation.  For us to have gone from a colony to the leading Super Power on the planet in less than 2 centuries is quite an accomplishment.

Agreed, there are many ways to measure greatness.

While there is a kernel of truth in his statement, given many bits of our history, the way he goes about saying it is divisive and intellectually dishonest in what it does not recognize.
 

robtmc

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2018, 08:52:11 AM »
What a jerk :rofl:
Says all you need to know about NY that they elected this POS.

mrgaf

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2018, 07:39:10 PM »
His father should have been neutered.... :thumbsup:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

changemyoil66

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2018, 02:07:35 PM »
We can look at many things that make a country great or not great.  But in the end, I would say it boils down that thousands come here every year and want to become US citizens.  This has been happening for at least 100 years.

Can you say the same about any other country?

Example: How many Chinese go to England to become an English citizen vs. come to the USA.  Can't really count Mexico because of the 2 closest options, the US is way better.

Kuleana

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2018, 04:19:16 PM »
We can look at many things that make a country great or not great.  But in the end, I would say it boils down that thousands come here every year and want to become US citizens.  This has been happening for at least 100 years.

Can you say the same about any other country?

Example: How many Chinese go to England to become an English citizen vs. come to the USA.  Can't really count Mexico because of the 2 closest options, the US is way better.


If I was reassured that I would get the same government handout, I may very well want to go somewhere other than America.

Other countries, whether they have the resources or not, are not that stupid to give free money to non-citizens.




changemyoil66

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2018, 08:26:56 AM »

If I was reassured that I would get the same government handout, I may very well want to go somewhere other than America.

Other countries, whether they have the resources or not, are not that stupid to give free money to non-citizens.


They're on their way though.  England, Germany just letting anyone in.  No questions asked.  Then the free stuff will probably follow.

Kuleana

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2018, 10:37:16 AM »
They're on their way though.  England, Germany just letting anyone in.  No questions asked.  Then the free stuff will probably follow.

So, will that make those EU member states the greatest nations in the World like the US?

changemyoil66

Re: Gov. Cuomo: "America was never that great"
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2018, 01:14:00 PM »
So, will that make those EU member states the greatest nations in the World like the US?

4th Reich.