Kavanaugh hearing chaos (Read 209696 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2018, 12:59:47 PM »
Whats the point of this hearing?  everyone already made up their minds prior to on both sides . Right?

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2018, 01:11:58 PM »
Whats the point of this hearing?  everyone already made up their minds prior to on both sides . Right?

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The point is ... Congress has the Constitutional right and responsibility to provide "advice and consent" under the Appointments Clause.  Confirmation hearings are happening all the time, but the Supreme Court, being the highest court in the nation and a lifetime appointment, gets special attention.

Trump just had 8 US District Court nominees confirmed 2 days ago, and 13 more in August.  That's not including other confirmations for various other courts.  We aren't seeing those confirmation hearings, are we?

Kabuki Theater is a way if life in DC.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Inspector

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2018, 05:38:18 PM »
Whats the point of this hearing?  everyone already made up their minds prior to on both sides . Right?

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It wasn’t always like this. It used to be that the senate committee would actually ask pertinent and valid questions and then make up their minds. It used to be most justices were confirmed with 90+ votes. All based on whether the appointee was actually qualified and not which side of the political spectrum the appointee would side in a case. Because if the appointee actually was unbiased, then it would not matter if they voted R or D. The results should theoretically be the same.

As soon as the Dems figured out they could legislate from the bench, the whole process became politicized. And with the Crazytown progressives trying to win back power at all cost they see this appointee as a threat to their power structure. So they do anything to play to their base. It is all preplanned and organized. It really has turned into a circus. But whether everyone has already decided or not, the process has to be performed. Mostly because now the vote pretty much goes down party lines. So if the Progressives can sway just one or two votes with their theatrics then it would be worth it for them. You watch, when they have the majority in the senate, none of these theatrics will occur. Guaranteed. JMHO
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

eyeeatingfish

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2018, 08:43:17 PM »
Whats the point of this hearing?  everyone already made up their minds prior to on both sides . Right?

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There are a few republicans that could potentially be swung. I think that is the Democrat's only plan here.

punaperson

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2018, 07:17:42 AM »
Whats the point of this hearing?  everyone already made up their minds prior to on both sides . Right?
Some people speculate that Grassley's strategy of allowing all the disruption both on the floor and on the dais was to let the Dems hang themselves with their own rope. The other side of that is that it will "stimulate" the Dem "base" to get more actively involved in the fall election.

I'm guessing that a few people will be stimulated to be more "active" than they otherwise would have been... on both sides. Net result: zero difference.

It was quite the entertaining spectacle though.

My favorite part was the other day when the girls basketball teams showed up to support their coach and had their group pictures taken with him.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 07:24:29 AM by punaperson »

macsak

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2018, 08:33:05 AM »
Some people speculate that Grassley's strategy of allowing all the disruption both on the floor and on the dais was to let the Dems hang themselves with their own rope. The other side of that is that it will "stimulate" the Dem "base" to get more actively involved in the fall election.

I'm guessing that a few people will be stimulated to be more "active" than they otherwise would have been... on both sides. Net result: zero difference.

It was quite the entertaining spectacle though.

My favorite part was the other day when the girls basketball teams showed up to support their coach and had their group pictures taken with him.

how do they decide who gets to testify?
like why was that MSD student allowed to talk?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2018, 09:09:25 AM »
how do they decide who gets to testify?
like why was that MSD student allowed to talk?

Quote
Choosing and Inviting Witnesses

In choosing witnesses, committees pay careful attention to the viewpoints that are heard, who should testify, and the order and format for presenting testimony.

In some cases a committee strives to assure that all reasonable points of view are represented, while in other cases witnesses expressing only particular points of view are invited. Senate rules allow the minority party members of a committee to call witnesses of their choice on at least one day of a hearing, when the chairman receives a request from a majority of the minority party members before the completion of the hearing (Rule XXVI, paragraph 4(d)). The Committee on Appropriations is exempt from this rule. In lieu of this formal option, the minority sometimes works informally with the majority to invite witnesses representing its views.

To testify, a witness must be invited by the committee. Before officially inviting a witness, committee staff identify, and often interview, prospective candidates. When appropriate witnesses are found, the committee chair commonly sends a formal letter of invitation. This letter gives the witness some basic information, including the purpose, subject, date, time, and place of the hearing. In addition to specifying the portion of a measure or issue the witness should address, the letter might contain a limitation on the length of the witness's oral testimony.

The committee may send the witness additional information. This information may include a list of committee members, the committee's rules, the measure under consideration, and press articles relating to the issue. A staff contact is indicated. Staff sometimes meet with witnesses before a hearing to answer questions and to review procedure.

A Senate standing order authorizes reimbursement for per diem expenses of witnesses (S.Res. 259, 100th Congress). The actual expense basis for reimbursement generally cannot exceed the daily rate set by the Committee on Rules and Administration although the committee may consider deviations from this policy on a case-by-case basis. A committee also may reimburse a witness for travel expenses related to testimony. If reimbursement is expected, the letter of invitation may address this. Usually a witness is reimbursed only in hardship circumstances, and then only for expenses related to transportation from the witness's place of residence to the hearing and return.

https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RL30548.html#_Toc256754276
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

changemyoil66

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2018, 12:40:35 PM »
There are a few republicans that could potentially be swung. I think that is the Democrat's only plan here.

I think even these guys have already made up their minds.

Does anyone know when was the last year that it was a real hearing (majority supported regardless of GOP/Dem values)? 

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2018, 01:15:15 PM »
Does anyone know when was the last year that it was a real hearing (majority supported regardless of GOP/Dem values)? 

Appointments have always been politically based.  The main difference in the past: it required a vote of at least 60 Senators to confirm a justice.

Because the threshold was so high, it was understood if my party fought tooth and nail to prevent your party's nominee, you'd do the same to mine.  No one wins if every nomination becomes a political mud fight.  Between 1894 and 1968, the Senate rejected just one presidential nomination to the high court. Deference to presidential prerogative prevailed.

Additionally, with 60 votes needed, you had to to count on Senators from the other party to support your choice.  That means your nominee had to at least appear to be less politically biased and more loyal to the Constitution for both sides to accept them.

Then came Thurgood Marshall, the first black justice.  That was in 1967.  With Civli Rights riots and desegregation a big issue, Many Senators, mainly from Southern Democrat states, refused to vote for him. They denigrated his credentials, of course, rather than come out and say it was racial politics.

After that, Supreme Court nominations because a game of political payback.  You didn't support our nominee "A", so we won't support your nominee "B".  it was no longer about the nominee's fitness as much as grandstanding for voters.  Filibusters were still one way to kill a nomination, since cloture could not be achieved without a super-majority vote. 

When the Bush v. Gore decision essentially named GW Bush President, the apolitical pretenses stopped.  At that point, the political biases of every Supreme Court Justice became the #1 issue.

When Harry Reid allowed the Senate rules to be changed, reducing the threshold for cloture for lower court nominees to be a simple majority (51 out of 100), the Democrats acknowledged the facade no longer exists -- that all judicial appointments are political appointments.

That's what paved the way now for Republicans to make the same rule change on Trump's Supreme Court picks. The new rule is, "Whichever party is the majority gets to pick justices unopposed."  That assumes the majority party isn't full of obstructionists, too.  john McCain comes to mind.


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/06/30/trump-supreme-court-nominations-history-bork-garland-218942
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2018, 01:17:32 PM »
Through all of this, I was a little surprised to learn about the numbers of lower court positions that have been filled.  Hopefully all good selections.  But the Dems (Mazie in particular) Sen Judiciary committee brought up all of these issues they had with many of the confirmed selections.  Uh, what do they have to do with Kavanaugh?  To me, they are just trying to make a point that has no logical basis.  So when asked to substantiate their case, they revert to stuff like "we hate Trump", which is basically what this is about.

punaperson

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2018, 04:54:18 PM »
Through all of this, I was a little surprised to learn about the numbers of lower court positions that have been filled.  Hopefully all good selections.  But the Dems (Mazie in particular) Sen Judiciary committee brought up all of these issues they had with many of the confirmed selections.  Uh, what do they have to do with Kavanaugh?  To me, they are just trying to make a point that has no logical basis.  So when asked to substantiate their case, they revert to stuff like "we hate Trump", which is basically what this is about.
Ironically, probably Trump's worst selection to the circuit court of appeals was his pick for the Ninth Circuit from Hawaii, Mark Bennett, former Hawaii state Attorney General. (Like the Ninth Circuit needs another anti-Second Amendment judge!) This is made clear by the fact that both Hirono and Schatz spoke in glowing terms of the nominee (and you saw last week how Hirono treated Kavanaugh, so...),  who famously submitted an amicus brief along with five other state AGs supporting Washington, D.C.'s handgun possession/ownership ban in the District of Columbia v. Heller case (aka Heller I). He also opposed, via amicus brief at SCOTUS, the Citizens United decision. During his confirmation hearings, Senator Cruz brought up both these issues (http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/12/ted-cruz-trump-ninth-circuit-nominee/).

drck1000

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2018, 05:14:40 PM »
Ironically, probably Trump's worst selection to the circuit court of appeals was his pick for the Ninth Circuit from Hawaii, Mark Bennett, former Hawaii state Attorney General. (Like the Ninth Circuit needs another anti-Second Amendment judge!) This is made clear by the fact that both Hirono and Schatz spoke in glowing terms of the nominee (and you saw last week how Hirono treated Kavanaugh, so...),  who famously submitted an amicus brief along with five other state AGs supporting Washington, D.C.'s handgun possession/ownership ban in the District of Columbia v. Heller case (aka Heller I). He also opposed, via amicus brief at SCOTUS, the Citizens United decision. During his confirmation hearings, Senator Cruz brought up both these issues (http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/12/ted-cruz-trump-ninth-circuit-nominee/).
Both Hirono and Schatz voted for a R Trump nominee.  Well, $hit. Will have to see how things pan out. The swamp is pretty deep in the 9th. I remember looking up the makeup after the Young decision and was shocked at justices from the Carter admin. O.o

Drakiir84

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2018, 07:28:12 AM »
Both Hirono and Schatz voted for a R Trump nominee.  Well, $hit. Will have to see how things pan out. The swamp is pretty deep in the 9th. I remember looking up the makeup after the Young decision and was shocked at justices from the Carter admin. O.o

Trump's obviously playing the long game.  Guaranteeing that gun rights cases get overturned in the 9th so it can be settled in the supreme court.  Underwater 4D chess being played right before our browbeaten eyes.
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

punaperson

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2018, 07:35:01 AM »
How things stand as of today:

The Senate Judiciary Committee has scheduled a vote for Thursday on the Supreme Court nomination of Brett Kavanaugh.

The vote follows four days of testimony surrounding his nomination last week, including two in which he answered a marathon of questions from senators on the committee.

Democrats, however, will likely delay the vote until next week, which they are allowed to do under committee rules. The nomination is expected to be reported out of committee along party lines. This timeline will likely set up a full Senate confirmation vote on Kavanaugh the week of Sept. 24.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said in an interview with Hugh Hewitt on MSNBC last week that he’ll be confirmed before the high court’s next term next month.

drck1000

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2018, 07:47:06 AM »
Trump's obviously playing the long game.  Guaranteeing that gun rights cases get overturned in the 9th so it can be settled in the supreme court.  Underwater 4D chess being played right before our browbeaten eyes.
Like many things with regards to Trump, I hope there is a method to the madness.  Just that with the 9th, things are so "thick" there that I would think it would take 3-4 terms to even get back to somewhat of a balance.  All of which affects us closer than others. 

I see what you're saying and I hope so.  That said, some of these issues are getting specific enough to expect them to be that high up on the "master plan".  Time will tell.  Again, while I do see a lot of the good in his actions, just have to wait and how things turn out.  Like I mentioned before, just because he's playing a high level of chess, doesn't necessarily mean he's playing it well or will ultimately turn out for the good in terms of 2a.  I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but also not holding my breath. 

changemyoil66

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2018, 09:15:55 AM »
How things stand as of today:

The Senate Judiciary Committee has scheduled a vote for Thursday on the Supreme Court nomination of Brett Kavanaugh.

The vote follows four days of testimony surrounding his nomination last week, including two in which he answered a marathon of questions from senators on the committee.

Democrats, however, will likely delay the vote until next week, which they are allowed to do under committee rules. The nomination is expected to be reported out of committee along party lines. This timeline will likely set up a full Senate confirmation vote on Kavanaugh the week of Sept. 24.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said in an interview with Hugh Hewitt on MSNBC last week that he’ll be confirmed before the high court’s next term next month.

So more time and tax dollars wasted.  Everyone already made up their minds, but yet the dems are going to delay.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2018, 11:14:29 PM »
So more time and tax dollars wasted.  Everyone already made up their minds, but yet the dems are going to delay.

Because that is what our congress has become. Dysfunctional bickering and wasting of time and both sides are guilty of it. Congress needs an overhaul.

punaperson

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2018, 07:38:10 AM »
Because that is what our congress has become. Dysfunctional bickering and wasting of time and both sides are guilty of it. Congress needs an overhaul.
Give us an example of the exact wording of a law or rule that would change what we saw during the Kavanuagh confirmation hearings (I mean other than limiting the time for each member to have the floor). I don't think "Be nice. And only ask questions that are REALLY relevant." will cut it. Not even a little. Nor would "Don't be a dumbass (Mazie)".

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Kavanaugh hearing chaos
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2018, 01:08:30 PM »
Give us an example of the exact wording of a law or rule that would change what we saw during the Kavanuagh confirmation hearings (I mean other than limiting the time for each member to have the floor). I don't think "Be nice. And only ask questions that are REALLY relevant." will cut it. Not even a little. Nor would "Don't be a dumbass (Mazie)".

TERM LIMITS.  Two terms, just like the President and Vice President.  Then, you have to find a job or run for a different elected position.  If you switch chambers (House <=> Senate), then you can do 4 terms (2 per).  After that, it's President or VP.  In theory, you could be VP and then President -- 4 terms total.

That sounds like a reasonable limitation.  Incumbents have too much power to leave "changing of the guards" up to the voters.

"Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."  -- Mark Twain
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw