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ConCon (Read 9893 times)

hvybarrels

ConCon
« on: October 09, 2018, 08:01:38 PM »
Opportunity to expand gun rights or an excuse to get the rest of them stripped away?

https://www.civilbeat.org/2018/10/dont-let-a-campaign-of-fear-stop-a-constitutional-convention/
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changemyoil66

Re: ConCon
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2018, 09:10:27 AM »
Saw a commercial this morning to vote no.

Was this the booth at the gun show?  About getting states together to make their own laws and stuff?
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macsak

Re: ConCon
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2018, 09:12:17 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on October 10, 2018, 09:10:27 AM
Saw a commercial this morning to vote no.

Was this the booth at the gun show?  About getting states together to make their own laws and stuff?

no, that's something different
his is Hawaii only
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eyeeatingfish

Re: ConCon
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2018, 08:49:37 PM »
I haven't followed this con con closely I must admit but my main desire for a con con is to have a citizens initiative put in place so our representatives can't shut us out from trying to get pro gun laws introduced.
 
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hvybarrels

Re: ConCon
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 02:28:12 PM »
In my opinion the lack of Citizens Initiatives is why Hawaii government is so screwed up. One party and you ain't in it.
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dafrtknocker

Re: ConCon
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2018, 05:52:20 PM »
I will  vote Yes, just by looking who's against it.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/10/12/hawaii-news/constitutional-convention-draws-opposition-from-powerful-coalition/?HSA=64187817a053876962599d0e7e8f2eea5263fca5

The coalition includes many of Hawaii’s major unions, such as the Hawaii Government Employees Association, which is the state’s largest, and unions representing public school teachers, police and firefighters. The Chamber of Commerce of Hawaii, the Sierra Club of Hawaii and the Hawaii chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union have also joined in the coalition, as has the Hawaii Democratic Party.
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Rocky

Re: ConCon
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 06:10:37 PM »
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macsak

Re: ConCon
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2018, 07:21:22 PM »
Quote from: dafrtknocker on October 12, 2018, 05:52:20 PM
I will  vote Yes, just by looking who's against it.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/10/12/hawaii-news/constitutional-convention-draws-opposition-from-powerful-coalition/?HSA=64187817a053876962599d0e7e8f2eea5263fca5

The coalition includes many of Hawaii’s major unions, such as the Hawaii Government Employees Association, which is the state’s largest, and unions representing public school teachers, police and firefighters. The Chamber of Commerce of Hawaii, the Sierra Club of Hawaii and the Hawaii chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union have also joined in the coalition, as has the Hawaii Democratic Party.

I was for it from before the first anti-commercial
didn't know who made it, but I knew that the only way we can shake up the status quo is a con con
and the fact that someone was so against it reinforced my belief
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tillamook

Re: ConCon
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 07:28:11 PM »
Quote from: dafrtknocker on October 12, 2018, 05:52:20 PM
I will  vote Yes, just by looking who's against it.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/10/12/hawaii-news/constitutional-convention-draws-opposition-from-powerful-coalition/?HSA=64187817a053876962599d0e7e8f2eea5263fca5

The coalition includes many of Hawaii’s major unions, such as the Hawaii Government Employees Association, which is the state’s largest, and unions representing public school teachers, police and firefighters. The Chamber of Commerce of Hawaii, the Sierra Club of Hawaii and the Hawaii chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union have also joined in the coalition, as has the Hawaii Democratic Party.

Someone in the comments said that a blank vote is counted as a "no" vote.  Is that true in Hawaii?

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: ConCon
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 09:30:13 PM »
Quote from: tillamook on October 12, 2018, 07:28:11 PM
Someone in the comments said that a blank vote is counted as a "no" vote.  Is that true in Hawaii?

In this particular case, a blank vote is not a "No" vote.

(1)  if there are more "Yes" than "No" votes (a majority), AND
(2) if at least 50% of the total ballots cast are "Yes" votes (including blanks and over votes), then the measure passes. 

Just getting more "Yes" votes than "No" votes isn't good enough if at least 50.1% of the ballots were "No" or left blank on the question.

Example: 
   Yes:   1,000
   No:       900
   Blanks: 100

The measure would pass in this example.  If the blanks counted as a "no", there would be a tie. 
If there were 200 blank votes, then the measure would not pass ("Yes" failed to get 50% of the total ballots cast), even though there are more "Yes" than "No" votes.

Quote
At the general election, the question is approved if both qualifications are met:

Test 1: Yes votes receive a majority of votes tallied, excluding blank and over votes
Test 2: Yes votes receive at least fifty percent of the total votes cast, including blank and over votes

https://elections.hawaii.gov/resources/revision-and-amendment-of-the-hawaii-state-constitution/
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: ConCon
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2018, 11:39:49 PM »
Hanabusa is not for it, so count me in

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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punaperson

Re: ConCon
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2018, 05:27:49 PM »
Two brief statements by senator Thielen in favor of ConCon:

Shall Hawaii Hold a ConCon? The Question Comes Down to, Do You Think the Legislature Will Resolve Hawaii’s Chronic Challenges?
October 7, 2018 By Senator Laura Thielen

http://www.senatorlaurathielen.com/shall-hawaii-hold-a-concon-the-question-comes-down-to-do-you-think-the-legislature-will-resolve-hawaiis-chronic-challenges/

Hawaii legislators are the only people who can create a state law. The Governor can’t; the Judiciary can’t.

As you can imagine, this has led to situations where our state laws treat legislators differently from other government officials.

For example, all City & County Councils, State and County Boards and Commissions and Task Forces, have to follow Hawaii’s Sunshine Law. Meetings are publically noticed 7 days in advance; they can only vote on items on their agenda; the public may attend and testify; no meeting behind closed doors to discuss items they will be voting on.

The Hawaii State Legislature exempted itself from the Sunshine Law. Which is why legislators can (and have) meet behind closed doors, decide to gut a bill in Committee without notice, replace it with entirely different contents, and vote it into law.

Special treatment for state legislators can be found in other laws; from different levels of pension contributions, to no term limits, unlike every other elected politician and virtually all appointed Boards and Commissions.

We Need a Hawaii Constitutional Convention

http://www.senatorlaurathielen.com/we-need-a-hawaii-constitutional-convention/
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zippz

Re: ConCon
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2018, 12:55:18 AM »
If there is a concon, then you guys are going to be in for a lot of work to educate people and get them to vote.  What you guys are proposing is a pipedream in todays environment.  More than likely there will be enough votes to pass stuff you dont want.
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punaperson

Re: ConCon
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2018, 07:34:14 AM »
Quote from: zippz on October 15, 2018, 12:55:18 AM
If there is a concon, then you guys are going to be in for a lot of work to educate people and get them to vote.  What you guys are proposing is a pipedream in todays environment.  More than likely there will be enough votes to pass stuff you dont want.
I don't know the details of who votes where in what "districts" for the delegates to the convention, but if the voting population is the same as that which votes for the Hawaii legislature (Senate 100% Dem, House 90% Dem), it's pretty clear who and what values will be overwhelmingly represented by the delegates to any such event. That group of delegates will be highly unlikely to be in favor of more personal liberty and freedom against statist impositions for the "collective good". I don't see initiative, referendum, recall, term limits (Hawaii is the only state in the United States that does not have a single one of those provisions) or any kind of clarifying language to "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". What are they going to add? "No, seriously, we mean it... shall NOT be infringed."

On the other hand, they could go the opposite direction and impose into the constitution their preferred progressive diktats to cement the inevitable further decay and downfall of anything resembling "securing the blessings of liberty". It seems the vast majority of the population here prefers that, including the state monopoly of violence (aka civilian disarmament (aka "a few commonsense gun safety regulations"))..

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robtmc

Re: ConCon
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 07:39:40 AM »
Quote from: dafrtknocker on October 12, 2018, 05:52:20 PM
I will  vote Yes, just by looking who's against it.

Excellent method, have used it for decades with ballot measures, just look at who is for and against.
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tillamook

Re: ConCon
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2018, 07:47:22 AM »
I voted, LOL
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hvybarrels

Re: ConCon
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2018, 10:12:57 AM »
Quote from: zippz on October 15, 2018, 12:55:18 AM
If there is a concon, then you guys are going to be in for a lot of work to educate people and get them to vote.  What you guys are proposing is a pipedream in todays environment.  More than likely there will be enough votes to pass stuff you dont want.

The glass could definitely go less than half empty on smaller near n' dear issues, but the bigger picture is that the environment that created the one-party state is the reason we are backed up against a wall in the first place. Hawaii government is set up to protect the interests of a privileged few and discourage participation by the public. They love low voter turnout and people giving up in frustration and not paying attention. With all the corruption and scandals it's a great time to shake the ant farm and get everyone excited about creating something that works instead of the current slow suicide train to a concrete encased toxic island full of feral homeless and murderous law enforcement where nobody in their right mind would want to vacation.

We probably won't get everything we want, but snapping potential voters out of their humbug-coma and getting them engaged in the process is what we need.

Right now Bloomberg, Monsanto, LDS, and whoever else can march into the state and throw tons of money around to get what they want and they tell us we have to "wait until next election" to do something about it. That's just a cleverly disguised master/slave relationship.
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zippz

Re: ConCon
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2018, 10:20:50 AM »
I guess we have nothing to lose.  Legislature could vote on amenemdments for a vote anyways
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changemyoil66

Re: ConCon
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2018, 02:22:31 PM »
Many on SSH FB page are calling for a change in voting.  But it only has about 150K members or so.  Wish they would get political to help change from blue to red.
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drck1000

Re: ConCon
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2018, 02:47:55 PM »
Been looking into this and definitely see positives. But also see potential for mainland interest groups to dump a bunch of money into the process and make things worse. 
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