I thought about this to slowly end Social Security.

Early cash out option for SS. Get one payment, about half of what your total benefits would be at the time and pay no future SS taxes. This would be after you made 15 years of paying SS taxes.

You'll probably still do better investing that sum and the 7.2% taxes in the stock market and come out ahead. Businesses could optionally add their 7.2% portion to your paycheck or 401k too.

Allow the lump sum payment to be put into a 401k or IRA.  10% penalty if you dont put it into a retirement account.

How are you going to “pay no future SS taxes”? 

How are you going to “pay no future SS taxes”? 

You opted out early.  So you got a partial lump sum payment.  No future SS benefits and no future SS taxes.

You opted out early.  So you got a partial lump sum payment.  No future SS benefits and no future SS taxes.

Opt out?

Are you planning to no longer be a US Citizen? Or are you no longer going to be working in the US?

I’m gonna submit my “opt out” paperwork Monday. I’m also gonna not pay income taxes...

Opt out?

Are you planning to no longer be a US Citizen? Or are you no longer going to be working in the US?

I’m gonna submit my “opt out” paperwork Monday. I’m also gonna not pay income taxes...

heads

Opt out?

Are you planning to no longer be a US Citizen? Or are you no longer going to be working in the US?

I’m gonna submit my “opt out” paperwork Monday. I’m also gonna not pay income taxes...

You have a better proposal to give to congress?

You have a better proposal to give to congress?

Huh?

Are you talking about proposal to change SS? Or talking about a way you see around the system? To “slowly end SS”. Who is going to pay for current beneficiaries?

I’m not that well informed on SS and Medicare, but I do know that what you propose would lead to millions being exposed. Is it a perfect system? Far from it. Am I depending on it when I retire? Hellz no.

Your total SS benefits are calculated based on 30+ years of income.  Cashing out after only 15 - you’d be cheating yourself since income usually goes up as you get older.  Japan does something similar to this but totally different country and culture. 

Wanna save SS? Tell them scumbags in DC to keep their stinking paws off of the fund, that’s how you fix the system! Just take a look at the Wildlife Restoration Act of 1938 (Pitman/Robinson) to see a fed fund that works and has safeguards against the swamp dwellers stealing from it!

I kinda assumed everyone knew how social security works.  It's a huge ripoff for middle income earners as you can see below + the low rate of return versus stocks long term + the depletion of the SS fund to pay only 79% of benefits.  People make a big fuss if someone steals $1,000 from them but don't blink when SS steals hundreds of thousands of dollars from them.

Better to cut your losses and break free from SS if you can, even if you're halfway through your working ages.

PIA formula
For an individual who first becomes eligible for old-age insurance benefits or disability insurance benefits in 2019, or who dies in 2019 before becoming eligible for benefits, his/her PIA will be the sum of:
    (a) 90 percent of the first $926 of his/her average indexed monthly earnings, plus
    (b) 32 percent of his/her average indexed monthly earnings over $926 and through $5,583, plus
    (c) 15 percent of his/her average indexed monthly earnings over $5,583.

Wanna save SS? Tell them scumbags in DC to keep their stinking paws off of the fund, that’s how you fix the system! Just take a look at the Wildlife Restoration Act of 1938 (Pitman/Robinson) to see a fed fund that works and has safeguards against the swamp dwellers stealing from it!

^^^THIS^^^

I am eligible to start taking SS in a year and a half at 62 in 2020. I intend to start taking it whether I decide to keep working or not. Even with the extra taxes I will have to pay. The problem is this, in 2022 SS will hit the point where they have to start paying out more than they bing in. The money runs out in 2034. At which point, if nothing is done before this time, SS will have to reduce all recipients payments by as much as 23%. All of this is per the 2017 report and is estimated.

If you start allowing people to opt out the timeline above changes drastically. SS will run out of money even sooner. Which means you will be screwing yourself over if you already have donated to the fund for 15 or more years. I would prefer that the government takes $700B back from Obama and all Democrats in office when this money was stolen from SS to fund Obamacare and be placed back into the SS fund. And then you can allow those who are just starting to pay into the fund to opt into having all SS deductions from their check to be put directly into their 401K. This does two things. It takes the administration costs of SS for new donors out of the hands of the government and puts it into the hands of the employee. And it keeps the government from further stealing from the SS fund. Now, as the older recipients start dying off then the need for SS funds will diminish. Any and all shortages will be made up by new workers at a diminishing rate. I know this doesn’t sound fair, but it is a way out so taxpayers are not on the hook forever under the current plan. If the worker forgoes the 401K plan, then SS is not deducted from their check. Eventually, SS will die off and the tax burden can then be removed from the taxpayer. But then we get back to the problem that SS tried to solve at its inception. How to help seniors who are retiring from ending up a burden on society when they fail to plan properly earlier in their lives.

While I am not a fan of social programs, I believe a properly run SS fund can be run properly and maintain the funds to keep the seniors in retirement. By funding the SS with enough seed money and turning over to private account managers I think the fund can be invested properly to keep it solvent under the current deduction and payout rules established under Reagan and Clinton. JMHO

I kinda assumed everyone knew how social security works. 

Like I said, I’m no SS expert, but I don’t think you’re seeing or appreciating the big picture. There’s much more to SS benefits than the financial aspect of old age benefits. Could we invest our monies better if we had control, sure. But there’s MUCH more to the system than that.

You mention pipe dreams, this is worse.
1) There isn’t a way for the vast majority of US citizens to simply opt out of SS. There are a few exemptions, but good luck getting more than say 10% of the population to qualify.
2) Even if your proposal, or any other proposal to “end SS” were to gain traction with law makers, you would be leaving millions exposed who depend on SS benefits. You can’t just remove the main part of the pay as you go system. At least without replacing it in another way.

I see what Is being said about mismanagement of the system. But it is also my understanding that people are simply living longer and costing the system much more than being put it. That even without mismanagement, the system needs adjusting to account for that. Stuff like increasing age for benefits and increasing taxing of those paying into the system.

I too am not a fan of all social systems, but SS is one that in its current state, I don’t believe one can just end by having the middle age folks opt out. Same with the C&C and State if Hawaii government worker pension systems. I’m not a part of that,but have close family whose lives literally depended on those benefits, especially the healthcare component.

The effort to try to find solutions is commendable, but one can’t simply take a Pollyanna approach and only consider a part of the equation.

I am eligible to start taking SS in a year and a half at 62 in 2020. I intend to start taking it whether I decide to keep working or not. Even with the extra taxes I will have to pay. The problem is this, in 2022 SS will hit the point where they have to start paying out more than they bing in. The money runs out in 2034. At which point, if nothing is done before this time, SS will have to reduce all recipients payments by as much as 23%. All of this is per the 2017 report and is estimated.

If you start allowing people to opt out the timeline above changes drastically. SS will run out of money even sooner. Which means you will be screwing yourself over if you already have donated to the fund for 15 or more years. I would prefer that the government takes $700B back from Obama and all Democrats in office when this money was stolen from SS to fund Obamacare and be placed back into the SS fund. And then you can allow those who are just starting to pay into the fund to opt into having all SS deductions from their check to be put directly into their 401K. This does two things. It takes the administration costs of SS for new donors out of the hands of the government and puts it into the hands of the employee. And it keeps the government from further stealing from the SS fund. Now, as the older recipients start dying off then the need for SS funds will diminish. Any and all shortages will be made up by new workers at a diminishing rate. I know this doesn’t sound fair, but it is a way out so taxpayers are not on the hook forever under the current plan. If the worker forgoes the 401K plan, then SS is not deducted from their check. Eventually, SS will die off and the tax burden can then be removed from the taxpayer. But then we get back to the problem that SS tried to solve at its inception. How to help seniors who are retiring from ending up a burden on society when they fail to plan properly earlier in their lives.

While I am not a fan of social programs, I believe a properly run SS fund can be run properly and maintain the funds to keep the seniors in retirement. By funding the SS with enough seed money and turning over to private account managers I think the fund can be invested properly to keep it solvent under the current deduction and payout rules established under Reagan and Clinton. JMHO

So you’re saying that in 2020, you’ll have more $$$ for guns? 

So you’re saying that in 2020, you’ll have more $$$ for guns? 

If I keep working, YES!!! 

If I don’t keep working I will have to sell my house and move back to the mainland. I am already getting ready to sell my house on the Big Island. Going to do a 1031 Exchange to a place in Phoenix. Due to the medical condition of my wife and the lack of good medical on the BI it just is not going to work for us. So it looks like an eventual move back to the mainland is in the cards for me. Maybe I can find a place with enough land where I can shoot. Either way we need to find somewhere far enough away from a big city but close enough to provide good medical for my wife.

The bottom line is this, even with more money for guns, I have stopped buying because the eventual move is coming.

If I keep working, YES!!! 

If I don’t keep working I will have to sell my house and move back to the mainland. I am already getting ready to sell my house on the Big Island. Going to do a 1031 Exchange to a place in Phoenix. Due to the medical condition of my wife and the lack of good medical on the BI it just is not going to work for us. So it looks like an eventual move back to the mainland is in the cards for me. Maybe I can find a place with enough land where I can shoot. Either way we need to find somewhere far enough away from a big city but close enough to provide good medical for my wife.

The bottom line is this, even with more money for guns, I have stopped buying because the eventual move is coming.

Ahh. Sorry to hear that you might be relocating, but definitely understand taking care of life priorities, especially the balance of healthcare. Hope all goes well!

The purpose of the15 year minimum is for people to fund contributions for the seniors.  The people who opt out paid into the system and will take a large loss but have the opportunity to make it up later through better efficiency in the commercial markets.    Seniors may have to take a small cut, perhaps minus 1% from fututre inflation adjustments.  Gov would have to increase the debt to raise money for the lump sum payments.

There would be a shared sacrifice for everyone, but things would improve in the long run.  Businesses would thrive from new money in the markets.  Greater wealth overall.  And better federal debt and budget management.

And the opt out is optional, people can continue to pay into the mandatory ponzi scheme if they want.  Eventually people will see it as the socialist money theft it is and leave too.

I think the lump sum is a bad idea.  Unfortunately, many people do not know how to budget their money.  So getting a little every month is more manageable than getting a lot at 1 time.

I can see them spending it all in a few years only to be totally broke.  Look at many professional athletes who are not franchise players.  They complain about wanting life time medical, a retirement package, etc...You just made millions of dollars right out of college.  Save some of that and don't buy 4 Bentley's and 2 houses. 

I saw a show about the non-franchinse athletes.  They got a saying 10 and you're done.  Once you got $10mil in the bank, retire.  Save your body, brain, and go find something else to do.

Also a factor is that they may know how to budget, but someone might come along (kids) wanting to "borrow" and never repay them back.

I am eligible to start taking SS in a year and a half at 62 in 2020. I intend to start taking it whether I decide to keep working or not. Even with the extra taxes I will have to pay. The problem is this, in 2022 SS will hit the point where they have to start paying out more than they bing in. The money runs out in 2034. At which point, if nothing is done before this time, SS will have to reduce all recipients payments by as much as 23%. All of this is per the 2017 report and is estimated.

If you start allowing people to opt out the timeline above changes drastically. SS will run out of money even sooner. Which means you will be screwing yourself over if you already have donated to the fund for 15 or more years. I would prefer that the government takes $700B back from Obama and all Democrats in office when this money was stolen from SS to fund Obamacare and be placed back into the SS fund. And then you can allow those who are just starting to pay into the fund to opt into having all SS deductions from their check to be put directly into their 401K. This does two things. It takes the administration costs of SS for new donors out of the hands of the government and puts it into the hands of the employee. And it keeps the government from further stealing from the SS fund. Now, as the older recipients start dying off then the need for SS funds will diminish. Any and all shortages will be made up by new workers at a diminishing rate. I know this doesn’t sound fair, but it is a way out so taxpayers are not on the hook forever under the current plan. If the worker forgoes the 401K plan, then SS is not deducted from their check. Eventually, SS will die off and the tax burden can then be removed from the taxpayer. But then we get back to the problem that SS tried to solve at its inception. How to help seniors who are retiring from ending up a burden on society when they fail to plan properly earlier in their lives.

While I am not a fan of social programs, I believe a properly run SS fund can be run properly and maintain the funds to keep the seniors in retirement. By funding the SS with enough seed money and turning over to private account managers I think the fund can be invested properly to keep it solvent under the current deduction and payout rules established under Reagan and Clinton. JMHO

I'm turning 63 next week.  I retired at age 55 and haven't yet applied for SS due to the tax and medical insurance problems it causes.
I don't think it will be politically possible to screw people out of SS, but I do expect a "Haircut" for those above a certain income level.
I'm pretty sure I won't exceed that level.
Sorry to read you must leave due to health concerns. Sorry that we have not had a chance to meet on the BI.
I looked into going back to WA state( no state income tax) Great medical, but all things added up it is cheaper to stay on the big island.
We actually have pretty good medical here.  Most people that have exceptional needs jump on a plane.  One of my neighbors
recently sent wife and sick daughter to Boston for three months for very special treatment for the kid. Community and family
came together to help them.