9th (Read 12057 times)

ptanabe

9th
« on: November 20, 2018, 11:26:21 AM »
Trump just blasted the 9th Circuit

Drakiir84

Re: 9th
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2018, 11:36:25 AM »
They're the worst.
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

drck1000

Re: 9th
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2018, 11:51:38 AM »
Trump condemns 'disgraceful' 9th Circuit, dubbing it rubber-stamp for his foes

Quote
In lengthy and fiery comments to reporters outside the White House on Tuesday, President Trump excoriated the liberal-leaning Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals as a "disgrace" hours after an Obama-appointed federal judge there issued a nationwide injunction against his newly announced emergency restrictions on asylum claims.

The president vowed immediate action and said he was "going to put in a major complaint" about the appellate court, based in San Francisco, without elaborating.

He also broadly criticized the increasingly common practice of individual federal judges bringing unilateral halts to executive branch policy. Trump specifically cited the Ninth Circuit's injunction against his ban on travel from several Muslim-majority nations, which was ultimately ruled a constitutional exercise of presidential authority this year by the Supreme Court.

"You go to Ninth Circuit and it's a disgrace, and I'm going to put in a major complaint. Because you cannot win, if you're us, a case in the Ninth Circuit," Trump said. "Every case that gets filed in the Ninth Circuit, nd then we end up having to go to the Supreme Court -- like the travel ban -- and we won."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-condemns-disgraceful-9th-circuit-dubbing-it-rubber-stamp-for-his-foes

changemyoil66

Re: 9th
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2018, 12:35:45 PM »
That's also why I was so surprised the Young case won in the 9th.

punaperson

Re: 9th
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2018, 02:08:35 PM »
That's also why I was so surprised the Young case won in the 9th.
Young won because of a lucky random draw on the three judge panel selections. Even the one who opposed the decision was appointed by a Republican president. That's why en banc, with a much larger draw, is less likely to have as good a fortune in terms of balance. They can pretty much guarantee they can "remedy" any errant three-judge-panel decision via the strong mathematical probability of having an en banc panel with a substantial majority of heavily left--leaning judges.

I'd like to see Trump file "a complaint" alright!  :geekdanc:

eyeeatingfish

Re: 9th
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2018, 09:58:02 PM »
Trump just blasted the 9th Circuit

Though I think the 9th circuit deserves loads of criticism I don't think Trump should be attacking the court like this.

Heavies

Re: 9th
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2018, 12:38:10 AM »
Though I think the 9th circuit deserves loads of criticism I don't think Trump should be attacking the court like this.
Why not?  Are not the three branches of Government supposed to check and balance each other?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: 9th
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2018, 01:22:46 AM »
Why not?  Are not the three branches of Government supposed to check and balance each other?

When the court attacks you and your Presidential powers first, I think characterizing Trump's actions as an "attack" is dishonest.  He's defending his position by voicing his opinion of the judge.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Inspector

Re: 9th
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 06:20:31 AM »
Though I think the 9th circuit deserves loads of criticism I don't think Trump should be attacking the court like this.
Trying to limit the president’s right to free speech? He has every right to do this and if he feels so inclined, he should.

I know you don’t like the fact he did this, but you also didn’t offer your feelings as to why, I would like to hear what your feelings are.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

changemyoil66

Re: 9th
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 09:00:42 AM »
Though I think the 9th circuit deserves loads of criticism I don't think Trump should be attacking the court like this.

1 reason why I voted for him, he calls out BS when he sees it and isn't afraid.  Not only with the 9th, but everyone else domestic and foreign.

tillamook

Re: 9th
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2018, 01:03:38 PM »
Funny to hear Roberts say there are no "Obama" judges.  Of course there are.  If you can determine the decision of the judge before the case is finished just based on their political party then they are not impartial.  there would be no "swing vote judges" if they were impartial.  They would all be swing votes if they were not partisan and impartial  If there was impartiality would 61% of the 9th decisions be overturned?  Imagine if your dentist was wrong 61% of the time, or the police, or the McDonald's drive thru?

Would there be mass panic about abortion laws if Trump didnt appoint judges?

Supreme court justice saying the court is impartial.... He cant believe that crap. 

punaperson

Re: 9th
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 01:30:30 PM »
Funny to hear Roberts say there are no "Obama" judges.  Of course there are.  If you can determine the decision of the judge before the case is finished just based on their political party then they are not impartial.  there would be no "swing vote judges" if they were impartial.  They would all be swing votes if they were not partisan and impartial  If there was impartiality would 61% of the 9th decisions be overturned?  Imagine if your dentist was wrong 61% of the time, or the police, or the McDonald's drive thru?

Would there be mass panic about abortion laws if Trump didnt appoint judges?

Supreme court justice saying the court is impartial.... He cant believe that crap.
I suspect he, as chief justice, "has" to give lip service to the idea of impartiality, even though as we can all see in virtually every case that comes before the courts, especially re Second Amendment issues, the outcome is (nearly always) known beforehand based simply upon the party of the president who nominated the judges making up the panel.

I've become highly suspect of Roberts in recent years and fear that he is not at all a "safe" vote for our rights should another case be taken by the SCOTUS. Most people thought that the squirrelly language Scalia included in Heller was to placate Kennedy, but I now suspect Roberts was also on the edge and would only "go along" if there was a bunch of squishy stuff ("no right is absolute", "long standing... presumptively lawful", etc.) in there. We might have to wait for a Ginsburg/Breyer replacement to win one.

hvybarrels

Re: 9th
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 01:58:47 PM »
It's a dangerous precedent to attack the courts. The Democrats already crossed the line turning a nomination into a partisan freak show.

The reason is once you undermine the legitimacy of the judicial system then there is no foundation for law in the country, everyone starts to think the law is what they want it to be, and we descend into chaos and insurrection.

There are plenty of ways to work around the edges of the system without resorting to blowing the whole thing up. That's why they call it the Nuclear Option, because once you go there it narrows everyone's options in the future to slightly different scenarios of mutual self destruction.
“A Communist system can be recognized by the fact that it spares the criminals and criminalizes the political opponent.”   -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

tillamook

Re: 9th
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 02:16:18 PM »
It's a dangerous precedent to attack the courts. The Democrats already crossed the line turning a nomination into a partisan freak show.

The reason is once you undermine the legitimacy of the judicial system then there is no foundation for law in the country, everyone starts to think the law is what they want it to be, and we descend into chaos and insurrection.

There are plenty of ways to work around the edges of the system without resorting to blowing the whole thing up. That's why they call it the Nuclear Option, because once you go there it narrows everyone's options in the future to slightly different scenarios of mutual self destruction.

that is already the case.  just look at sanctuary cities.  Judges making decisions based on party platforms since they know it will cost fortunes and decades to get it overturned. I think the whole country needs to be flushed and started over but it is even dangerous to speak your mind about this now.  The titanic is sinking, there is no stopping it.  We can put a band on the deck to play music, but it is still sinking. 

eyeeatingfish

Re: 9th
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2018, 05:42:01 PM »
Trump just blasted the 9th Circuit

Trump has to get his facts straight too. The judge he was complaining about isn't on the 9th circuit but is instead a district judge.

eyeeatingfish

Re: 9th
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2018, 06:00:09 PM »
Trying to limit the president’s right to free speech? He has every right to do this and if he feels so inclined, he should.

I know you don’t like the fact he did this, but you also didn’t offer your feelings as to why, I would like to hear what your feelings are.

I never suggested we limit his free speech. Instead I would hope Trump would have the intellectual intelligence to control his speech by himself.

The legitemacy of the courts as 1/3rd of our government took a while to establish and Trump's comments undermine that. Sure, there are always people not happy with the way courts are going but we have to recognize the integrity of the courts even if we don't like some of the decisions. The courts serve as a check and balance of power in government and we risk destabilizing a fundamental institution  all for Trump's ignorance or arrogance or whatever it is that makes his brain work the way it does.

Imagine you had prosecutor's telling you the cops are crappy, or vice versa. Do you think that would really instill confidence in the system?

« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 06:05:15 PM by eyeeatingfish »

eyeeatingfish

Re: 9th
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2018, 06:03:03 PM »
When the court attacks you and your Presidential powers first, I think characterizing Trump's actions as an "attack" is dishonest.  He's defending his position by voicing his opinion of the judge.

The courts did not attack the president or his powers in this case. A judge issued a short stay until the scheduled hearing for the suit. Even if you don't agree with the suit, a temporary hold is fairly standard.

He is voicing his opinion and he is free to do so but that doesn't make it a smart idea or ethical when he does it this way. Trump lies to us left and right, blatantly so, he refused to admit when he is wrong, and he tries to blame everyone else. He is not being a good leader for this country when he is so divisive like this.

Imagine going to war where the general gives a briefing that your medics don't know what they are doing and your air cover doesn't know how to drop bombs accurately.



« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 06:11:42 PM by eyeeatingfish »

eyeeatingfish

Re: 9th
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2018, 06:12:56 PM »
Why not?  Are not the three branches of Government supposed to check and balance each other?

But they don't check and balance each other by trying to undermine each other. At least they shouldn't.

hvybarrels

Re: 9th
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2018, 06:26:42 PM »
that is already the case.  just look at sanctuary cities.  Judges making decisions based on party platforms since they know it will cost fortunes and decades to get it overturned. I think the whole country needs to be flushed and started over but it is even dangerous to speak your mind about this now.  The titanic is sinking, there is no stopping it.  We can put a band on the deck to play music, but it is still sinking.

It might feel good to say that, but I'm pretty sure the world you are describing looks like the one Chairman Mao created with his Cultural Revolution
“A Communist system can be recognized by the fact that it spares the criminals and criminalizes the political opponent.”   -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Inspector

Re: 9th
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2018, 07:50:39 PM »
I never suggested we limit his free speech. Instead I would hope Trump would have the intellectual intelligence to control his speech by himself.

The legitemacy of the courts as 1/3rd of our government took a while to establish and Trump's comments undermine that. Sure, there are always people not happy with the way courts are going but we have to recognize the integrity of the courts even if we don't like some of the decisions. The courts serve as a check and balance of power in government and we risk destabilizing a fundamental institution  all for Trump's ignorance or arrogance or whatever it is that makes his brain work the way it does.

Imagine you had prosecutor's telling you the cops are crappy, or vice versa. Do you think that would really instill confidence in the system?
The legitimacy of the courts were undermined long before Trump came into office. Trump is just pointing out the partisan politics has invaded the SCOTUS. You are blaming him for something is incabable of doing since the partisan nature and thus the illegitimacy of the SCOTUS has been known for decades before he became president. I know you have your opinion and you disagree. But you really can’t deny Trump’s words can’t deligitimize something that has been that way long before he came into office.

Now, if you don’t like his words, I can certainly understand that. I don’t like him saying things regarding the SCOTUS either. But we live in a country that has the 1st amendment and I will defend is complaint even if I don’t like it. Do I think he should have said that? No, I don’t. I don’t think it was a wise move. But I will defend his right to say it. I think he is not making any friends by doing that. And I think there should be some respect shown towards the POTUS and towards the SCOTUS. But he is the president we have, like him or not.

As soon as the left were able to get judges into the courts that were willing to rule on a political partisan line, they realized they don’t have to vote on legislation and they can make law through the SCOTUS. I want SCOTUS justices that rule according to the way the constitution is written and rule according to the intent of the way the constitution was intended to be interpreted. Unbiased along political lines. Unfortunately, things are not that way any more. Thus, the illigimate nature of the SCOTUS exists. As long as we still have a majority of justices that interpret the law and the constitution they way it was intended, then the SCOTUS is has an air of legitimacy. But as long as the 3 or 4 Democrat justices left continue to rule on the side of politics over the law, the court is a joke. And has been for a long time. My feeling is if you have 9 unbiased impartial judges then you will mostly have 9-0, 8-1 or even 7-2 rulings 90% or more of the time. But when rulings regularly fall along partisan lines consistently, things are obviously illigimate to some (more or less) extent.

The one thing I want to say something about Trump’s complaints against the SCOTUS. While I think Trump has a right to say what he said, and I don’t think it was a good idea for him to say it. I think it was worse for justice Kennedy to defend all judges by saying none are partisan and all are unbiased was out of line for him to say. It was an obvious lie on his part and everyone is laughing at him and his comment. I honestly feel that what he said was quite ironic as I see his defense and words as being quite partisan in nature. JMHO
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!