When a 80% receiver is completed and serialized, can it be registered on the first visit to HPD with the proper permit?

When a 80% receiver is completed and serialized, can it be registered on the first visit to HPD with the proper permit?

Are you asking if you want to register the same time as applying for permit to acquire?

Also, is this for a handgun or long gun?

A permit to acquire should not be necessary.  You already acquired it as an unregulated, non-firearm hunk of material.  You should only have to register it.

So, yes, if it conforms to the arbitrary interpretations of the law by whomever serves you at HPD, you should be able to register it in one visit.



We have two processes: Permits and Registrations.

Permit [to Acquire] is required for a transfer of ownership.

Registration is required for all firearms you already own, acquire or manufacture.

This is my understanding of how it works, but I have no personal experience with 80% receivers.  I've registered C&R firearms, and no permit to acquire was required.  They did ask me for my long gun permit when I registered my C&R pistol, so for a smoother transaction, you should go ahead and get/renew that before registering the receiver.

With a current Permit to Aquire, a completed 80% is registered as any legal firearm.

In order to comply with H.R.S. 134-2(a), a Permit to Aquire is needed before any work is performed on the 80% as H.R.S. 134-2(a) specifies acquisition of a firearm "in any other manner".

The amount of visits one will make depends on the 80% in question and whether one will take a chance at confiscation.  This is specific to 80% AR-types intended to be registered as a pistol.  I went first to ask Firearms Division specifically what they wanted at the same time I registered something else, then made two more visits to ensure I was proceeding in a manner acceptable to them.  However, my firearm could have been registered after completion but if there was anything they didn't like, they'd likely have confiscated it.

A permit to acquire should not be necessary.  You already acquired it as an unregulated, non-firearm hunk of material.  You should only have to register it.

So, yes, if it conforms to the arbitrary interpretations of the law by whomever serves you at HPD, you should be able to register it in one visit.



We have two processes: Permits and Registrations.

Permit [to Acquire] is required for a transfer of ownership.

Registration is required for all firearms you already own, acquire or manufacture.

This is my understanding of how it works, but I have no personal experience with 80% receivers.  I've registered C&R firearms, and no permit to acquire was required.  They did ask me for my long gun permit when I registered my C&R pistol, so for a smoother transaction, you should go ahead and get/renew that before registering the receiver.

After reading this I realize a better question is .....
to register a 80% handgun receiver, do I need to apply for a permit to acquire and wait 2 weeks?   Or do I take the receiver with me on the first visit with no PTA  to register it?
Apologies if this has been answered before.   I may need to visit HPD and get the answer personally.

What they don’t know, keep status quo.

With a current Permit to Aquire, a completed 80% is registered as any legal firearm.

In order to comply with H.R.S. 134-2(a), a Permit to Aquire is needed before any work is performed on the 80% as H.R.S. 134-2(a) specifies acquisition of a firearm "in any other manner".

The amount of visits one will make depends on the 80% in question and whether one will take a chance at confiscation.  This is specific to 80% AR-types intended to be registered as a pistol.  I went first to ask Firearms Division specifically what they wanted at the same time I registered something else, then made two more visits to ensure I was proceeding in a manner acceptable to them.  However, my firearm could have been registered after completion but if there was anything they didn't like, they'd likely have confiscated it.

It doesn't surprise me if HPD says you need a permit to work on it, only because it becomes a firearm at that point, but the permit to acquire "prior to working on it" is bad application of that law.  When you acquired it, it was not classified as a firearm.  Hence, there's no requirement to have a permit.  If they want to require a permit prior to manufacturing a firearm, the law should be changed to include that.

Question answered.
Mahalo

It doesn't surprise me if HPD says you need a permit to work on it, only because it becomes a firearm at that point, but the permit to acquire "prior to working on it" is bad application of that law.  When you acquired it, it was not classified as a firearm.  Hence, there's no requirement to have a permit.  If they want to require a permit prior to manufacturing a firearm, the law should be changed to include that.

Legally, the acquisition of the firearm is not when the 80% is received because at that point, it is not a firearm.  The ATF considers an 80% a firearm when work is performed to manufacture a firearm.  Using an AR-type receiver as an example, if any one hole is drilled or the fire control group pocket is started, it is considered a firearm.  For pistol types, the slide rails, barrel pocket or seat, or action pin holes.

As the 80% is simply raw material used in the manufacture of a firearm, one must refer to Laws relevant to the manufacture of a firearm, specifically, manufacture of a firearm by a non-manufacturer.  Since there are no Local or State laws addressing this, one must refer to the Federal Laws.

Where State Law applies in this case is Hawaii requires Permits to Acquire.  134-2(a) states prior to acquisition "in any other manner" so a permit is required as the acquisition is by manufacture of the firearm.

Where things become "gray" is the two week wait period as applied to pistol acquisition.  I can only speak of my experience concerning this but I registered my pistol without a wait period but I also had a Permit to Acquire for long guns.  Technically, I spent more time manufacturing the pistol so I don't know if that was a consideration but out-of-State registration doesn't have the wait period applied either.

It doesn't surprise me if HPD says you need a permit to work on it, only because it becomes a firearm at that point, but the permit to acquire "prior to working on it" is bad application of that law.  When you acquired it, it was not classified as a firearm.  Hence, there's no requirement to have a permit.  If they want to require a permit prior to manufacturing a firearm, the law should be changed to include that.

§134-2  Permits to acquire.  (a)  No person shall acquire the ownership of a firearm, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, registered under prior law or by a prior owner or unregistered, either by purchase, gift, inheritance, bequest, or in any other manner,

§134-2  Permits to acquire.  (a)  No person shall acquire the ownership of a firearm, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, registered under prior law or by a prior owner or unregistered, either by purchase, gift, inheritance, bequest, or in any other manner,

Acquiring ownership involves the transfer of a firearm to you.  That's not applicable for a non-firearm (80% receivers are not firearms).

This is a manufacturing issue.

There are ZERO federal restrictions on manufacturing a firearm for personal use.

At time of acquisition, no firearm was involved.

Pretty simple.

Acquiring ownership involves the transfer of a firearm to you.  That's not applicable for a non-firearm (80% receivers are not firearms).

This is a manufacturing issue.

There are ZERO federal restrictions on manufacturing a firearm for personal use.

At time of acquisition, no firearm was involved.

Pretty simple.

Acquiring means coming In to possession.
When you manufactured the firearm you case into possession of a firearm thru other means.

Acquiring means coming In to possession.
When you manufactured the firearm you case into possession of a firearm thru other means.

That's a twist of definitions.

If you bought an 80% receiver, you came into possession of a non-firearm part through an unrestricted, legal transaction.  ( == "acquisition")

Then you manufactured the firearm from the part you legally purchased ( == "Not acquisition")

"by other means" doesn't have meaning on its own.  You have to look at the entire sentence, which includes the phrase "shall acquire the ownership of a firearm".

So, the permit should not be required for a non-firearm acquisition.  Once you mill it, and it becomes a firearm, it needs to be registered.  If they want to require a PTA for that, too, it's a broad interpretation of the wording of the law.

Courts are inclined to interpret laws as narrowly as the law is written based on common usage and definition of the language, not in a broad catch-all manner.

"Acquisition" and "manufacturing, milling or creating" are not the same.

For your/HPD's argument to hold water, all firearms brought into the state by visitors or new residents would require a PTA, as would C&R firearms, which we know is not the case.  Therefore, "any other means" is not a universal catch-all requiring a permit for every single firearm of which you come into possession.

That's a twist of definitions.

If you bought an 80% receiver, you came into possession of a non-firearm part through an unrestricted, legal transaction.  ( == "acquisition")

Then you manufactured the firearm from the part you legally purchased ( == "Not acquisition")

"by other means" doesn't have meaning on its own.  You have to look at the entire sentence, which includes the phrase "shall acquire the ownership of a firearm".

So, the permit should not be required for a non-firearm acquisition.  Once you mill it, and it becomes a firearm, it needs to be registered.  If they want to require a PTA for that, too, it's a broad interpretation of the wording of the law.

Courts are inclined to interpret laws as narrowly as the law is written based on common usage and definition of the language, not in a broad catch-all manner.

"Acquisition" and "manufacturing, milling or creating" are not the same.

For your/HPD's argument to hold water, all firearms brought into the state by visitors or new residents would require a PTA, as would C&R firearms, which we know is not the case.  Therefore, "any other means" is not a universal catch-all requiring a permit for every single firearm of which you come into possession.

Before you mill it you are not the owner of a firearm. when you mill it you are. The milling process acquire's you the ownership of a firearm. All firearms bought into he state would not require a permit because they didn't acquire ownership in the state, C&R firearms are the same because you gain ownership when its mailed to you. Its already your before it enters the state. IF you had it sent via an FFL you would acquire it when the FFL transfers it to you.

When looking at the application of the law you have to look at the intent. The (stated) intent of the permitting system is to make everyone obtaining a firearm in the state to go though a background check.

I’ve done it before. Doesn’t matter whether it is a rifle or pistol 80%. Make sure you have a valid long gun permit to acquire before beginning work. Once you complete it and serialize it. Take just the permit to acquire and the completed receiver into HPD and they will register it (do not bring slides, barrels, uppers etc). You are then done. HPD only has one process for any type of 80%. Long gun and and handgun 80% receivers are treated the same.

The milling process acquire's you the ownership of a firearm.

And that's where you will never convince me my reading of the law is wrong. 

You can only acquire ownership of property through a transaction (purchase, inheritance, gifting).  Milling is not a transaction.  Ownership was not transferred via milling.

If you bought the receiver, you own it.  It became a firearm after acquisition.

...
the term acquire means “to come into possession of, whether directly or indirectly, through a sale, trade, exchange,
or other transaction, and the term "acquisition" means the act of acquiring.”

https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/acquire/

I’ve done it before. Doesn’t matter whether it is a rifle or pistol 80%. Make sure you have a valid long gun permit to acquire before beginning work. Once you complete it and serialize it. Take just the permit to acquire and the completed receiver into HPD and they will register it (do not bring slides, barrels, uppers etc). You are then done. HPD only has one process for any type of 80%. Long gun and and handgun 80% receivers are treated the same.

That tracks with how they treat C&R pistols, too.  Long gun permit was needed to register it, but no Permit to Acquire a handgun nor 2 week wait.

I still believe they are incorrectly applying the law requiring a long gun permit for such cases.  If it's not required for out-of-state firearms brought into the state, 80% receivers and C&R firearms you already own shouldn't require one either.  Registration should be sufficient.

And that's where you will never convince me my reading of the law is wrong. 

You can only acquire ownership of property through a transaction (purchase, inheritance, gifting).  Milling is not a transaction.  Ownership was not transferred via milling.

If you bought the receiver, you own it.  It became a firearm after acquisition.


https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/acquire/

   §134-1  Definitions.  As used in this chapter, unless the context indicates otherwise:
     "Acquire" means gain ownership of.

   §134-1  Definitions.  As used in this chapter, unless the context indicates otherwise:
     "Acquire" means gain ownership of.

And you already own the receiver blank BEFORE any milling.  Explain how you can gain ownership of something you already own.  It's impossible to do.