Was able to shoot some other red dots recently.  One thing I noticed is that some dots are crisper than others, at least with my vision.  I do have astigmatism, which is corrected with contacts.  With rifle, I do notice that the Aimpoint 2 MOA dots tend to bloom, especially on higher settings.  However, the EoTech reticle seems to be much clearer.  I also noticed that the EoTech reticle is much sharper when viewing with my left eye, so maybe something to do with level of correction. 

Anyways, I think it was the Leupold Deltapoint, but I recall the dot being a pretty crisp circle.  It was a larger MOA dot.  I want to say 7 MOA or larger.  It was an older dot and not sure on the model.  The current models appear to be a 2.5 MOA dot or a 7 MOA triangle.  Anyways, side-by-side with my Trijicon RMR 3.25 MOA, the bloom of the RMR was noticable.  I could actually get the RMR brighter in the sunlight, but the Deltapoint was certainly bright enough. 

I also tried a gun with the Sig Romeo, but not sure which model. 

Anyways, will see how the ZEV slide with Trijicon RMR does this weekend.  Have been doing more dry fire and I am picking up the dot better, but again, will have to see how I do in live fire.  That said, I am interested in trying out other brand dot options. 

I have a laser not a red dot, but regarding sighting in, I have my laser zero'd at 10 yards for defensive purposes and my iron sights zero'd at 25 yds.

Was able to shoot some other red dots recently.  One thing I noticed is that some dots are crisper than others, at least with my vision.  I do have astigmatism, which is corrected with contacts.  With rifle, I do notice that the Aimpoint 2 MOA dots tend to bloom, especially on higher settings.  However, the EoTech reticle seems to be much clearer.  I also noticed that the EoTech reticle is much sharper when viewing with my left eye, so maybe something to do with level of correction. 

Anyways, I think it was the Leupold Deltapoint, but I recall the dot being a pretty crisp circle.  It was a larger MOA dot.  I want to say 7 MOA or larger.  It was an older dot and not sure on the model.  The current models appear to be a 2.5 MOA dot or a 7 MOA triangle.  Anyways, side-by-side with my Trijicon RMR 3.25 MOA, the bloom of the RMR was noticable.  I could actually get the RMR brighter in the sunlight, but the Deltapoint was certainly bright enough. 

I also tried a gun with the Sig Romeo, but not sure which model. 

Anyways, will see how the ZEV slide with Trijicon RMR does this weekend.  Have been doing more dry fire and I am picking up the dot better, but again, will have to see how I do in live fire.  That said, I am interested in trying out other brand dot options.

I'm using shield red dot.  You're welcome to try them.  G17, g19, and a vp9

I'm using shield red dot.  You're welcome to try them.  G17, g19, and a vp9

Hmm. Never heard of that brand before. Seeing as you have them on a few guns, assume they’ve worked well for you. Post some pics and share your thoughts on them.

I’ve only seriously considered Trijicon and Leupold. Though I did consider Vortex and Sig as well.

Hmm. Never heard of that brand before. Seeing as you have them on a few guns, assume they’ve worked well for you. Post some pics and share your thoughts on them.

I’ve only seriously considered Trijicon and Leupold. Though I did consider Vortex and Sig as well.

Yes you have.  It's what I've had on my G19 for the last 2 years.

Yes you have.  It's what I've had on my G19 for the last 2 years.

Haha. Never noticed. And I’m sure I’d you use it, other have heard about it. Whether they wanted to or not. 

I don’t think I’ve shot your “Roland special”. I thought about going to ATEI route, but went with ZEV. Might still get a 19 and go that route.

“Where the dot is in that picture is the where my bullets impact at 25 yards, so yes that lollipop picture is the picture I use.” I was more refering to that your sight picture was the lollipop dot in the front sight blade. I was always told/taught to try to keep the dot centered in the view window, be it for handgun or long gun. Yeah, under stress, you may not have time to do so, but one should train for that sight picture for reps and muscle memory. I just never considered the way you described.

I had assumed that quality dots all have parallax correction. So if you zeroed properly, the POI will coincide with your POA. Yeah, you will be closer if your sight picture when you break the shot is what it is when your zeroed. When shooting with the dot, I also don’t really see the irons. When zeroing, I’m shooting at a slow and deliberate pace and I might notice the irons, but not when shooting at less deliberate pace.

I’ll have a chance to shoot with the dot in a training environment soon, so will see.

Honestly my rear sight, front sight, and even the window that the red dot appears on are completely out of my focus when shooting with a red dot. My complete concentration is on the target and a red dot magically hovering over it.

Both eyes merge the target into one picture and my strong eye also presents me the red dot, which is completely visible although my plane of focus is not on it.

Trijicon claims parallax free up to 50 meters. Seems true to me since my dot is not always centered in the window because that is not what my focus is on. When shooting, as long as I see a red dot on the target regardless how off center it is in the window, not that I can tell and don't worry about, I squeeze a shot off.

That lollipop picture is only when I'm attempting to zero my red dot to my iron sights before I go to the range for final adjustments.

Vp9, g17, and g19mos.  I need to put the dot back on the g19.

Vp9, g17, and g19mos.  I need to put the dot back on the g19.

Nice!  I like the look of that VP9 with the comp.  Very John Wick!    

Saw the 19 Gen 5 MOS/FS available at HGS.  Very tempting!

Been doing a lot more dry fire/practice the past couple of weeks and I'm picking up the dot a lot better on the draw.  I think I had developed a habit of having the front sight ever so slightly above the rear sight on the draw, just before full extension, in an effort to pick up the front sight quickly.  While I was able to pick up the front sight quickly in that way, that position was high enough that sometimes the dot was not visible in the window and I'd have to ever so slightly tilt the gun forward to pick up the dot.  Overall, I think the reps with the dot will help with irons.  Will have to try timed drills one of these days. 

Shot my Glock 17 with RMR in a handgun course this past weekend.  Posted some highlights in my thread on training experiences.  Overwall, it was a good day learning about shooting with the RMR.  Definitely see the positives, but there is a definite learning curve, at least for me.  Will definitely give this set up more time.  I see red dot use growing more and more with handguns, much like how red dots for carbines are pretty much standard nowadays. 

Shot my Glock 17 with RMR in a handgun course this past weekend.  Posted some highlights in my thread on training experiences.  Overwall, it was a good day learning about shooting with the RMR.  Definitely see the positives, but there is a definite learning curve, at least for me.  Will definitely give this set up more time.  I see red dot use growing more and more with handguns, much like how red dots for carbines are pretty much standard nowadays.

The standard for carbines is quickly becoming LVO's.  Right when we get used to red dots they come and take more of our money.

The standard for carbines is quickly becoming LVO's.  Right when we get used to red dots they come and take more of our money.

Haha. Funny you mention that. I was browsing LVOs last night. Been long wanting 1-6 or 1-8 for a carbine. I have a “spare” barrel and a Geissele rail that is needing an upper receiver to compete.

I might also try different draw techniques. I had been trying to pick up the dot as early in the draw as I could, so sort of ended up trying to get the gun level and picking up the dot before full extension. Maybe as early as half way out.

I was reading and saw video of a more diagonal path with a short vertical “pop up” at the end to pick up the dot. One of the instructors in the class this past weekend mentioned trying that method and it worked for them.

I had been trying to concentrate on the draw methods all day. In the later portion of the class, one instructor asked if I had changed my draw. I had consciously changed because of the dot and apparently it was way different from before. As mentioned in my training thread, I have taken a bunch of classes with this group and I was amazed that he noticed the difference. I had sort of been fighting it most of day and it showed. Need more practice.

Picking up the dot consistently from the draw is a whole different skill set I had to learn. My God it was frustrating at first. After thousands of reps (feels like) I've figured out that I need to naturally have my handgun lower on presentation to have the dot centered in the window compared to irons. I've become adequate at it for now. I'm striving for 99.9% dot acquisition from the draw. Great dry firing aid also. I thought I had a steady trigger pull with irons, a 3.25 moa red dot will let me know real quick I needed more practice pulling perfectly straight and to the rear.

The thing I love about red dots is once you've acquired it and learned to track it, target to target transitions are blistering fast. It'll be awhile before it catches on or even accepted, but one focal plane shooting with a handgun really is the cats pajamas lol.

The thing I love about red dots is once you've acquired it and learned to track it, target to target transitions are blistering fast. It'll be awhile before it catches on or even accepted, but one focal plane shooting with a handgun really is the cats pajamas lol.

If you think a red dot is fast, try a laser.  You will be firing as soon as you clear the holster at distances of 3 to 7 yards.  No need to acquire the sights.  Watch the target, if the dot is where you want it, press the trigger.

Picking up the dot consistently from the draw is a whole different skill set I had to learn. My God it was frustrating at first. After thousands of reps (feels like) I've figured out that I need to naturally have my handgun lower on presentation to have the dot centered in the window compared to irons. I've become adequate at it for now. I'm striving for 99.9% dot acquisition from the draw. Great dry firing aid also. I thought I had a steady trigger pull with irons, a 3.25 moa red dot will let me know real quick I needed more practice pulling perfectly straight and to the rear.

The thing I love about red dots is once you've acquired it and learned to track it, target to target transitions are blistering fast. It'll be awhile before it catches on or even accepted, but one focal plane shooting with a handgun really is the cats pajamas lol.

I had spent some time with dry practice before the class and I was getting it down.  But I also noticed during class, when under more stress or concentrating on other things, the draw suffered.  I knew it was something that would take time to adjust to, but also good to know in different context.  At least more than the Koko Head 25 yard range.  One of the instructors gave me a tip that seemed to help, which was to have the support hand "preset".  I had been trying to set things with my gun hand and while that was ok, the "preset" with the support hand seemed to be more consistent. 

After doing a bunch of draws dry and live fire, I can understand what you mean about the gun height on presentation compared to irons.  Not good or bad, just different. 

Yeah, the "dot dance" was noticeable for me.  Something that I noticed first when dry firing.  I was amazed at how much the dot moves around, even as close as 7 yards. 

I’d like to try this one of these days. Good discussion at the end in any case. Personally, I like to try things out and see for myself. As a very wise instructor said many times, “trust but verify”.

I don’t agree with all of his videos, but he does seems to approach them in a logical manner to see for himself.

That vp9 looks badass

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I will agree that slaving the red dot to your irons and leaving as is is wrong for a "zero." I would compare it to bore sighting a rifle. Gets you on paper so adjustments can be made easily.