3) One could argue that picking up the dot is no different than picking up the front sight.  That said, I know many very experienced and awesome shooters that have shot times slower with a RDS than iron sights.  Is it a matter of more dry practice?  More training?  Etc?  Yeah.  I also think part of it is openness to something new and sticking with it.  I have at least a couple of friends who are pretty good shooters with iron sights seem to have a closed mind when it comes to RDS on handguns.  While I can shoot my 17 pretty flat, I did notice that I was often waiting to reacquire the dot on subsequent shots and I "felt" that that was longer than with irons, but I never compared with a shot timer.  I think part of my mind expects the dot to be as stable as when I shoot a rifle, which as mentioned above just isn't the case.  No matter how good one is on recoil control. 

For me picking up the red dot is way faster and easier.  At 7yards, rapid fire.  Grouping with irons was about a jabone.  RDS was grapefruit.  Same gun and 1 after the other, seconds apart.

For me picking up the red dot is way faster and easier.  At 7yards, rapid fire.  Grouping with irons was about a jabone.  RDS was grapefruit.  Same gun and 1 after the other, seconds apart.

You should try shooting one carry optics division 🤔

FJ gave you a pretty good response, but I'll add some of my perspective and experience.

The type of sight or technology isn't a big difference.  I've shot with the same red dots typically used on handguns on rifles (RMR, SRO, Deltapoint, etc) and they work great.  I've seen Aimpoint micros on handgun slides, but not common.  Assuming shooting both eyes open on rifle, RMR/SRO/Deltapoint/etc would be just fine on any of my rifles. 

Differences between rifle and handgun:
1) Points of contact.  You have more with a rifle and that greatly helps with consistency in the level and alignment of the axis of the gun.  Think how much more play you have with a handgun, particularly pivoting laterally in your hands, than with a rifle.  You also have the "anchor point" with the buttstock in your shoulder.

2) Reciprocating slide with handgun.  The red dot is moving along with the handgun's slide (assuming mount directly to the slide).  Combine that with muzzle flip, there's more going on with the red dot on the handgun.  Whereas the dot stays put, at least relative to the bore axis, with the rifle. 

3) One could argue that picking up the dot is no different than picking up the front sight.  That said, I know many very experienced and awesome shooters that have shot times slower with a RDS than iron sights.  Is it a matter of more dry practice?  More training?  Etc?  Yeah.  I also think part of it is openness to something new and sticking with it.  I have at least a couple of friends who are pretty good shooters with iron sights seem to have a closed mind when it comes to RDS on handguns.  While I can shoot my 17 pretty flat, I did notice that I was often waiting to reacquire the dot on subsequent shots and I "felt" that that was longer than with irons, but I never compared with a shot timer.  I think part of my mind expects the dot to be as stable as when I shoot a rifle, which as mentioned above just isn't the case.  No matter how good one is on recoil control. 

4) If I shot "poof poof" ammo like some here, I think picking up the dot in multiple shots would be easier, but that's another story.   

those poofy guys are irritating...

those poofy guys are irritating...

#notimpressedbypoofpoof

#notimpressedbypoofpoof

#takesalottoimpressyou

Holster fit and compatibility is another aspect of RDS handguns that I've learned lessons on recently. 

There are a wide variation in RDS mounting location (forward/back) and height, in addition to RDS profile itself.  Some holsters are more tolerant with this variation, some are hit or miss, and others are just non-compatible. 

I have a few holsters that fit my 19RDS no problems.  I wanted holsters with retention and my preference is Safariland ALS.  The hit or miss aspect of the Safariland RDS holsters is pretty well documented in various forums, but I experienced it personally.  I have on 6354DO with light and another without light.  The holster with the light fit perfect out of the box.  The one without the light however needed a lot of work with a dremel.  Had to dremel the ALS as well as a portion of the holster body.  Dremel on the holster body was easy, but dremel on the ALS was a PITA since the ALS takes some effort to remove if you haven't done it before.  Took a while for myself and a buddy to get the holster to fit, but it was during a BBQ, so was relaxing.   

I've tried the same holster models that other folks had and my gun fit just find and they didn't have to do any mods.  Another friend has a 22/RDS/APL combo and his fit fine in a series that reportedly typically needed mods with the RDS. 

Picking up iron sights is a skill, and while I have been tempted to go for the red dot it is more important to me to work on preparing myself for stressful situations. Competing against guys with red dots puts a fire in my belly to step up even though I know I could do way better if I had one. Plus there is something about training myself to look through a tiny window that seems like a bad idea especially when it comes to being aware of surroundings.

That said I am also cheap and custom surfboards are expensive.

Picking up iron sights is a skill, and while I have been tempted to go for the red dot it is more important to me to work on preparing myself for stressful situations. Competing against guys with red dots puts a fire in my belly to step up even though I know I could do way better if I had one. Plus there is something about training myself to look through a tiny window that seems like a bad idea especially when it comes to being aware of surroundings.

That said I am also cheap and custom surfboards are expensive.

Your SA shouldn't be less using a red dot vs iron sights.  It's essentially a heads up display where you are transposing the dot over the target.  Yeah, I guess folks can get tunnel vision or limit their field of view by look through the red dot body, but if you're shooting both eyes open, your SA should be the full.

I can understand the hesitation on going with RDS on handgun because of the cost.  That's what kept me from trying it for 2-3 years.  Maybe a good thing that I waited as things have really picked up on that market with a lot more options. 

Cost is a huge factor. Maybe when im ready, hologram rds will exist. No need new holsters.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

i was able to modify, form-fit some Safariland holsters to fit with RDS, using a heat gun and a foam press.  took a lot of trial and error, and taping cardboard forms and shapes to the pistol to get the holster shape, contour right.  it was definitely a learning experience.

I used my Romeo 1 on the Sig 320RX for the first time at the bullseye pistol range.  Yesterday I cowitnessed the red dot to my iron sights and I was shooting spot on.  Then I noticed my groups were shifting 8 inches left and right.  My sight was loose and I didn't have a wrench.  Make sure to bring the mounting wrench with you to the range.

Today I tightened it up and it's shooting good.  Took a while to find the dot at first but 10 repetitions from the compressed ready fixed it.  Any slight movement makes the dot zig zag around whereas you wouldn't notice it as much on iron sights.  I started out shaky as I haven't dry fire practiced for a long time.

The red dot is more precise even with my astigmatism.  It is slower to aim than using irons especially during rapid fire where you can lose the dot for a split second.  The reason it's slower at the bullseye range is because any precision errors are amplified by the red dot and you're spending extra time to correct them.  Basically trading speed for extra precision.  Also the iron sights are very large compared to a tiny red dot so you don't lose sight of the irons.

I rate myself as adequate with them now.  Going to use it at Bob Smith's pistol class on the 20th.



Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

Regarding balance of speed and accuracy, “embrace the wobble” and send it.

I was hesitant on getting one for a pistol, but after putting a Holosun 507c on my Mark IV, I'm sold!   
much easier to see vs iron sights for me
i'm going to put one on my Ruger American pistol next.  I never really liked the factory irons, so this should make a nice upgrade

I was hesitant on getting one for a pistol, but after putting a Holosun 507c on my Mark IV, I'm sold!   
much easier to see vs iron sights for me
i'm going to put one on my Ruger American pistol next.  I never really liked the factory irons, so this should make a nice upgrade

Awesome! RDS on handguns like the Mark IV and S&W Victory are even better since the dot doesn’t ride on a reciprocating slide.

I haven’t been shooting that much lately, but I’m mostly shooting RDS handguns when I do. I’ll still shoot irons for sure, particularly in pistol matches when the action bays open, hopefully soon. I’ve been looking for pick up another RM06, but also want to try the Holosun. Maybe an excuse to buy a Sig X5 🤔

I like the reticle on the Holosun 507c, its like a mini Eotech reticle.  its 2 MOA dot with 32 MOA circle.  can be precise with the dot and circle get fast target acquisition.  just my preference is all
plus I couldn't find any optic ready pistol locally that I like, so i'm going to just upgrade what I already have.  save money   

Rockette has been wanting one but need the slide w/cut out.
Anybody want to swap such a slide for G17 stock slide w/ Tritium sights + other maybe even ammo ?

Rockette has been wanting one but need the slide w/cut out.
Anybody want to swap such a slide for G17 stock slide w/ Tritium sights + other maybe even ammo ?

LMK if you want to shoot mine.  I have both a 17 and 19 slide with RMR and looking to get another RMR for another 19.  You can borrow the 17 slide for a while if you'd like to test it out.  I've been mostly shooting my 19 with RMR these days.  Hopefully will have classes again soon. 

I would also like to get either a 34 MOS or perhaps another optic ready pistol, like P10C or similar.  A buddy shot his P10C with Holosun this past weekend, but I didn't get a chance to try it out. 

I liked the Holosin 507c on the Mark IV so much I got another 507c and mounted it on my Ruger American pistol using an outer impact mount that replaces the rear sight in the dovetail
Easy install using a sight pusher and nylon rods to tap the mount into place
I never enjoyed shooting this gun bc I couldn't shoot it that well. I just didnt like the factory white dot sights. Was thinking of fiber optic sights but why not step it up a notch to the RDS 
Shot it yesterday at kokohead pistol side, and it shoots way better with the RDS. Significantly. I can see the dot much clearer than I can the front sight. Shooting more easily, more consistently. Now I enjoy shooting this gun.
If you've never shot pistol with red dot, you should try it. Some guns it would make a significant improvement over irons, or in addition to irons

I liked the Holosin 507c on the Mark IV so much I got another 507c and mounted it on my Ruger American pistol using an outer impact mount that replaces the rear sight in the dovetail
Easy install using a sight pusher and nylon rods to tap the mount into place
I never enjoyed shooting this gun bc I couldn't shoot it that well. I just didnt like the factory white dot sights. Was thinking of fiber optic sights but why not step it up a notch to the RDS 
Shot it yesterday at kokohead pistol side, and it shoots way better with the RDS. Significantly. I can see the dot much clearer than I can the front sight. Shooting more easily, more consistently. Now I enjoy shooting this gun.
If you've never shot pistol with red dot, you should try it. Some guns it would make a significant improvement over irons, or in addition to irons

Awesome!  I don't think I will follow through any time soon, but a RDS on a S&W Victory or Ruger Mark IV is something I want.  With that style of action, I can see it being VERY fast and fun to shoot! 

I saw your post on the RDS mount on the rear sight notch.  Does that not make it quite high?  I mean I am sure still effective, but I've wondered about that mount method. 

Yes!  I agree that folks should try RDS on handguns.  While I will continue to own and shoot handguns with iron sights, I am fully a believer on RDS on handguns.  As one can see from this thread, there are definitely doubts and I had mine.  But it offers so much in performance, including for those with aging eyes.  Which sadly, I am in that category. . . 

My KHSC 25 yard training routine to get familiar with red dots is do at least 10 of each.

1.  Low ready.  Bring the gun up from the low ready and fire a shot on target.  Start slow and speed up.  Goal is to bring the dot on target without having to adjust and keeping shots on a sheet of paper.

2.  Compressed ready.  This is to practice getting the dot on target from a draw   I'll start out at the compressed ready, two hand grip just infront of my chest, then punch out and shoot.  Goal is to press the trigger right at arm extension.  Start slow and speed up.  My goal is to go only as fast as I can keep all shots on a sheet of paper.  Other things to try is fire two shots instead of one.  Also start out with both hands separated on the table with the gun in one hand.

3.   Rapid fire.  I'll rapid fire 5 shots to practice tracking the dot and keeping it on target.  Start out 2 seconds between shoots starting with two shots, then increase to three shots, then four, then five.  Then speed up the cadence to 1.5 seconds then one second between shots.  Again go only as fast as you can keep the shots on a sheet of paper.

Once you get pretty good at it, do it one handed, strong and support side