No one should ever take any advice from @Kuleana regarding tactics, techniques, and use of force.  He/She knows just enough about the language to be deadly wrong about the applications.  Dangerous combination.

The police report stated that one officer was in the path of the trapped vehicle.  How did that happen?  Why were police officers in a position of potential danger when their own report clearly said they established a vehicle barricade?

That's the issue though, there isn't conclusive evidence to prove that the victim was in compliance or non-compliance. 

Funny, I never offered to give any self-defense advice to anyone.

If you just plan to jump in to troll and cast insults to my character, please be a man and say so!

He's not trolling at all and he's not insulting your character - just your experience or lack of.

There are a large number os plausible explanations to this question.
-Maybe the officer did not think the individual would decided to flee for just a shoplifting offense
-In the heat of the moment there is a lot going on. 3 people in the car to watch, other vehicles to take into account. The officer might have simply decided to take the shortest path to address the driver
-When it became clear the guy was going to ram other cars  and it was time to escalate force the officer might have been in a crossfire situation and had to quickly move so as to get out of the potential fire of the other officer.

So why do you take the default position that the officer did something wrong and that he must be guilty of some wrongdoing unless he can prove his innocence?

You guys have way too much free time lol....

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I'm probably "guilty" of that lately.  However, you should be happy in a way that you have many reasons to have less free time.   

I was at the range bro!

I was gonna go Friday, but went to the dentist instead. . . 

With all due respect to HPD, I'd like to think the use of their firearms are done only as a last resort, as they are there to protect life, suspects and all.

Hence, I am always weary when we have police shooting fatalities, which have been traditionally small in number.  This being a credit to HPD, historically.

The "last resort" is a very gray area with no well defined line. Waiting an extra second could allow the officer to resort to different method but it could also cost them their life.

Granted.


Often times all we have is the officers account but it can't be discounted on the account that there are no other accounts. Obviously if we demand lethal force not be used unless there is a camera or witness then there are many times where an officer wouldn't be able to use force when they might need to to save someone's life.

Regardless, the basic question remains, were there any other less lethal options that the law enforcement officer could have utilized to regain control of the situation in both what happened in Mililani and at the capitol.  From all available facts made open to the public, arguments can be made that there was that possibility.  In both cases, neither suspect were armed with guns, while that was not true of the officers involved.

If a civilian in Hawaii decided to use their firearm to defend themselves on their property from an attempted assault from someone who was not armed and it was known the civilian actually had pepper spray and a baton on their person that they could have utilized, instead of their firearm, I would wager that person will still be facing murder/manslaughter charges from the prosecutors office.

Regardless, the basic question remains, were there any other less lethal options that the law enforcement officer could have utilized to regain control of the situation in both what happened in Mililani and at the capitol.  From all available facts made open to the public, arguments can be made that there was that possibility.  In both cases, neither suspect were armed with guns, while that was not true of the officers involved.

If a civilian in Hawaii decided to use their firearm to defend themselves on their property from an attempted assault from someone who was not armed and it was known the civilian actually had pepper spray and a baton on their person that they could have utilized, instead of their firearm, I would wager that person will still be facing murder/manslaughter charges from the prosecutors office.

There will always be a less lethal option but it doesn't make it a good option. For example, if someone were coming at you with a knife there would always be the option that you could use open hand techniques to disarm him but it is dangerous and unreasonable to expect you to take that option.

Moot point, as there is no such thing as hand-to-hand knife defense.  If there are techniques, the caveat is that they are not really meant to be used.


Now I haven't read heavily into the shooting at the capital but if I understand correclty the suspect had put the sheriff in a choke hold of some sort?
Are there escapes to choke holds? Yes but unless one is proficient it isn't going to be a realistic option.

That suspect was a 5'3", 102 lbs. disabled unarmed individual, with no prior convictions of assault or battery, who sometimes walked with a limp and cognitively incapacitated due to alcohol.


Is pepper spray or a taser a viable option? Taser is going to be difficult if the person was at your rear and pepper spray might work though you risk exposing yourself.

The deputy sheriff was not armed with a taser, but had pepper spray and a baton.  Yes, he might have exposed himself with the pepper spray, but so would the intoxicated suspect as well.  At least there would not be any lost of life.


Baton? Harder to hit the safer impact points on someone behind you and hitting them in the head is still risky and could be lethal.

Less lethal than using a firearm.


The downside to these options are that you have a very limited amount of time if someone has the choke on good, maybe 4 seconds if it is perfectly applied. If you elect to try these other less lethal options but they fail, you might not have ability to upgrade to the lethal option before passing out/dying.

That may be true, if that drunk was B.J. Penn, but the suspect physically and cognitively was no match for the trained armed deputy sheriff in-question, which is furthermore surprising how that suspect could get the jump and headlock secured on him in the first place.


A regular civilian would nearly always be arrested if they killed another person because that would be a homicide. That doesn't mean the civilian can't claim self defense and the burden of proof is on the prosecutors to prove the person wasn't acting in self defense. Yes, cops do get a pass here but it is in the beginning. Cops get a certain benefit of doubt that they were doing their job properly and then prosecutors consider the evidence and decide whether or not to charge the officer with a crime. It doesn't mean the civilian faces a different level of proof though.

Well, with the latest corruption scandals HPD and the Prosecutor's Office are mutually facing; it is hard for anyone to blindly trust their judgements on the two cases referenced above when there were no civilian eye-witnesses or video footage to corroborate the claims of the law enforcement officers involved.

Moot point, as there is no such thing as hand-to-hand knife defense.  If there are techniques, the caveat is that they are not really meant to be used.

That suspect was a 5'3", 102 lbs. disabled unarmed individual, with no prior convictions of assault or battery, who sometimes walked with a limp and cognitively incapacitated due to alcohol.

The deputy sheriff was not armed with a taser, but had pepper spray and a baton.  Yes, he might have exposed himself with the pepper spray, but so would the intoxicated suspect as well.  At least there would not be any lost of life.

Less lethal than using a firearm.

That may be true, if that drunk was B.J. Penn, but the suspect physically and cognitively was no match for the trained armed deputy sheriff in-question, which is furthermore surprising how that suspect could get the jump and headlock secured on him in the first place.

Well, with the latest corruption scandals HPD and the Prosecutor's Office are mutually facing; it is hard for anyone to blindly trust their judgements on the two cases referenced above when there were no civilian eye-witnesses or video footage to corroborate the claims of the law enforcement officers involved.

So what kind of LE training or any other type of similar training did you receive to deal with this situation?