9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker (Read 4046 times)

Mdotweber

9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« on: February 25, 2019, 04:42:46 PM »
"The case arose when the late Judge Stephen Reinhardt, a revered liberal jurist who died in March 2018, was listed as the author of a decision for a specially-composed 11 judge panel issued a week after his death."

https://www.dailycaller.com/2019/02/25/reinhardt-dead-supreme-court/

By any means necessary right?  Can't make this sh!t up!  :rofl:
"Dont forget, incoming fire has the right of way"-Clint Smith?

robtmc

Re: 9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2019, 11:38:59 AM »
Well, the judge will certainly still be voting democrat for decades, so why not count his vote here?

groveler

Re: 9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2019, 11:59:48 AM »
Much like they elected Patsy Mink.
I'm sure she still votes.

tillamook

Re: 9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 12:43:06 PM »
They dont need judges.  Just a check box based on their political party association.  If you can predict how the court will vote with 100% accuracy then you dont have to pay them.

eyeeatingfish

Re: 9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2019, 08:08:27 PM »
An interesting story. Personally, if the judge heard the arguments and put his position in writing I am not sure why that cannot be included just because the decision isn't released till after his death. Certainly if it were election day and you died right after voting your vote should still count even if you died before it was tallied.

Jl808

Re: 9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2019, 07:28:53 AM »
But he is no longer a judge.
I think, therefore I am armed.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: 9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 09:36:05 AM »
An interesting story. Personally, if the judge heard the arguments and put his position in writing I am not sure why that cannot be included just because the decision isn't released till after his death. Certainly if it were election day and you died right after voting your vote should still count even if you died before it was tallied.

100% wrong.

Until the decision is entered into the record officially, it doesn't exist as anything more than a draft document.

It becomes a judicial opinion and decision when the court enters the opinions into the record, and the justices vote to accept or oppose the ruling.

Judges cannot rule from the grave. If the judge dies Monday, and the court convenes on Tuesday, that judge's opinions cannot be entered into the record posthumously.

Analogies with voting or any other actions performed by anyone other than a dead judge are irrelevant. 

Federal judges are appointed for life, not for eternity.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: 9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2019, 09:48:22 PM »
100% wrong.

Until the decision is entered into the record officially, it doesn't exist as anything more than a draft document.

It becomes a judicial opinion and decision when the court enters the opinions into the record, and the justices vote to accept or oppose the ruling.

Judges cannot rule from the grave. If the judge dies Monday, and the court convenes on Tuesday, that judge's opinions cannot be entered into the record posthumously.

Analogies with voting or any other actions performed by anyone other than a dead judge are irrelevant. 

Federal judges are appointed for life, not for eternity.

I thought the judges had already voted and that it was just a matter of the votes being made official, maybe I misunderstood the procedure the article described.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: 9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2019, 11:30:51 PM »
I thought the judges had already voted and that it was just a matter of the votes being made official, maybe I misunderstood the procedure the article described.

They did vote, but the court had not reconvened to enter the official ruling.  Hence, the votes were not official other than for the purpose of preparing the opinion papers.

In this case, the dead judge would have been the tie breaker.  No 11th vote, no majority -- split decision.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: 9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2019, 09:11:55 AM »
No one has mentioned this above, maybe because it's rather common knowledge about Reinhardt, but he's the judge who, when asked about his decisions being so frequently overturned by SCOTUS, bragged “They can’t catch them all.”

https://www.nationalreview.com/bench-memos/this-day-in-liberal-judicial-activism-december-30/

Stephen Reinhardt. The Ninth Circuit arch-activist who has made a career of defying the Supreme Court—“They can’t catch them all,” he boasts of his wayward rulings—purports to take offense that a dissent from the denial of rehearing en banc in Belmontes v. Ayers (see This Day for June 13, 2008) implies that his rulings in that case have “flouted the will of the Supreme Court.” Some eleven months later, in a unanimous per curiam opinion (in Wong v. Belmontes), the Supreme Court summarily reverses Reinhardt—the third time in this same case that the Court has reversed or vacated one of his rulings. Further, the Court states that it finds his reasoning incomprehensible and fanciful, and it notes his manipulative recharacterization of the evidence.

* * * *
In the OP case being discussed, the publication of the opinion was illegal because until the moment of publication any judge partaking in the case can change their mind and alter their vote or the written opinion if they wrote it (and Reinhardt wrote this one). Obviously if a participating judge is dead at some point prior to the publishing of the opinion, they are no longer able to exercise their option to change their vote or written words, thus invalidating the final opinion.

eyeeatingfish

Re: 9th circuit counts dead Judges vote for tie breaker
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2019, 10:19:28 PM »
They did vote, but the court had not reconvened to enter the official ruling.  Hence, the votes were not official other than for the purpose of preparing the opinion papers.

In this case, the dead judge would have been the tie breaker.  No 11th vote, no majority -- split decision.

Well I guess I don't necessarily agree with the rule however if that is the rule then they must follow it.