Are we required to give first aide? (Read 9225 times)

bass monkey

Are we required to give first aide?
« on: May 05, 2012, 06:47:03 AM »
If someone entered your house and you shot them, do you need to give aid? I know you shoot to stop the threat but I'm not the greatest shot, if you get what I'm saying. 

TeamMidori

Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 07:24:27 AM »
Hmmmm. What if u r giving first aid and he somehow isn't totally incapacitated and grabs a hidden (fill in the blank)?

I see cops on tv just walking around after an incident where someone gets hurt somehow, not necessarily shot and they're not doing jack, Just waiting for the emts.

TeamMidori

Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 07:24:53 AM »
So IMO not required. But never know that might be illegal too.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2012, 08:08:50 AM »
Officers are expected to render first aid in such situations however they handcuff the person first, remove weapons and then administer first aid. I would suggest a home owner do the same before rendering aid. An officer has much more training than the average citizen and is expected to do more. Officers are trained to shoot to stop the threat not shoot to kill.

Assuming the shooting is justified the good samaritan laws protect you when you do try to render aid. I am not sure that there is any set legal requirement for you to render aid in Hawaii but that could of course be different in different states.
I think the best answer is : It depends.

If you shot the burglar in the ankle but did not call 911 for an hour and the burglar died it is possible that you might be held liable for something that was a clearly survivable wound. However if it were a shot in a vital place that would likely have been fatal even if paramedics were there soon then you are probably not going to be held liable.

My professional opinion is that you would have to call 911 as soon as possible for starters. The priority is the safety of you and your family, first aid for the suspect comes after that. Keep in mind the totality of the circumstances and be able to articulate what you did and why you did it.

If you end up saving their life they might turn around and say you shot them without reason. I am not condoning that you make sure they die though.

spanner1751

Re: Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 09:28:24 AM »
It would certainly look better at your trial if the judge/jury thought that you had taken all steps toward administering first aid to the victim. Instead of a cold-blooded killer, you would look more like a compassionate human who was forced to shoot someone in self-defense. 

DonRow

Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 02:30:00 PM »
Hmmmm. What if u r giving first aid and he somehow isn't totally incapacitated and grabs a hidden (fill in the blank)?

I see cops on tv just walking around after an incident where someone gets hurt somehow, not necessarily shot and they're not doing jack, Just waiting for the emts.
That's why I keep flexy cuffs next to my hand gun. My wife knows already if we hear something in the house I take point with my .40 and flexy, and she covers me with the AR (she's a pretty damn good shot). Just in case the perp surrenders I flexy cuff his/ her ass. If i have to render first aid then so be it.

Dblnaknak

Re: Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 11:04:01 PM »
Officers are expected to render first aid in such situations however they handcuff the person first, remove weapons and then administer first aid. I would suggest a home owner do the same before rendering aid. An officer has much more training than the average citizen and is expected to do more. Officers are trained to shoot to stop the threat not shoot to kill

Officers are trained to shoot to kill. That is the only time you are allowed to fire. Deadly force must be necessary. You stop the threat by killing it. I have never heard of any agency training their officers not to kill the threat.

spanner1751

Re: Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2012, 11:02:01 AM »
Officers are trained to shoot to kill. That is the only time you are allowed to fire. Deadly force must be necessary. You stop the threat by killing it. I have never heard of any agency training their officers not to kill the threat.

+1 "stop the threat" is just another way of saying "shoot him until he doesn't move". That's the reason for the body armor drill. If he doesn't drop with two to the body, make sure that he's "stopped" with one to the head.

Kingkeoni

Re: Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2012, 12:11:16 PM »
"Kill" is a politically incorrect word.

Shoot to "stop"   ;) the threat.
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

GZire

Re: Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2012, 10:41:26 PM »
Nope ain't giving any medical aid.  I'm not a professional and I don't want to be further exposed to any blood borne diseases.  Just calling 911.

HiCarry

Re: Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 09:52:28 AM »
You are not obligated to render aid to anyone....whether you were the proximate cause of the injury or not.

As to whether do so after using your firearm, is another matter. There are valid reasons both pro and con.

Pro: you may save a life; the jury "may" use it to see you in a better light;

Con: exposure to blood bourne pathogens; perp may use it as an opportunity to attack you; the procecuting attorney may use it against you, especially if there is a "bad" outcome (so you weren't content to just shoot him, right? Now you purposefully caused him to die/be permanently disabled/unable to work when you did XXXX...."); and you may say something "accidently" that could be used against you in any subsequent legal proceeding

TeamMidori

Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 05:54:22 PM »


Con: exposure to blood bourne pathogens; perp may use it as an opportunity to attack you; the procecuting attorney may use it against you, especially if there is a "bad" outcome (so you weren't content to just shoot him, right? Now you purposefully caused him to die/be permanently disabled/unable to work when you did XXXX...."); and you may say something "accidently" that could be used against you in any subsequent legal proceeding

Fuxk. I guess I ain't helping.....

eyeeatingfish

Re: Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2012, 10:00:28 PM »
Officers are trained to shoot to kill. That is the only time you are allowed to fire. Deadly force must be necessary. You stop the threat by killing it. I have never heard of any agency training their officers not to kill the threat.

You shoot to stop the threat, that is common training now. If a guy is coming at you from 50 feet away with a knife and you fire one round hitting him in the shoulder (for example) causing him to drop the knife and put his hands in the air you don't get to shoot him again to kill him.

If you shoot to kill that means you empty your whole mag to make sure he is dead no matter what has happened since the justification of deadly force. You don't want all those extra rounds going down range and potentially missing. You shoot to stop the threat because when the threat is over then the justification for deadly force is over.

hvybarrels

Re: Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2012, 11:30:33 PM »
Have some quickclots around. I hear those sting like a bitch.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Growler67

Re: Are we required to give first aide?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2012, 08:53:45 PM »
The first thing you should do after you have stopped the threat and ensured the scen is secure (no buddies hanging around for a second wave) is dial 911, Identify yourself and tell them what just happened.  Then stay on the line until officers arrive and FOLLOW ALL instructions and do NOT make any appearance to be a threat to the arriving officers.  The dispatcher will inform them that you are on the line with them and will transfer contact once you confirm that officers are on the scene.  Ensure at this point that you are NO LONGER armed.  It can be nearby, just do NOT have it in your hands.

Go from there.  The dispatcher will already have medical on the way.
Practice does NOT make perfect. Perfection is an Ideal and thus cannot exist in the real world. To seek perfection is to set yourself up for failure. Instead, strive for Excellence. Excellence is an attainable goal - Coach George Yamamoto, Mililani High School, RIP