AR Pistol with removed gas tube... legal? (Read 3025 times)

DadWagon

AR Pistol with removed gas tube... legal?
« on: April 12, 2019, 02:56:12 AM »
Aloha!  First post, and I apologize if this has been discussed before, I did a quick search didn't find the answer I'm looking for. 

I'm moving back to Oahu this summer after having been off island about 8 years, in that time I've acquired a bunch of stuff that isn't exactly Hawaii legal.  So, if I had an AR pistol, and I removed the gas tube, would that be sufficient to avoid the ridiculous, absurd, infringing and totally pointless "assault pistol" designation since it will not be able to function as a semi-auto?  I absolutely have no interest in welding a mag to a lower, that's just out of the question for me.  By removing the gas tube it becomes essentially a manually operated single shot, but when/if I end up off island again I could replace it and have it function as God and the founding fathers intended. 

Thanks!

bass monkey

Re: AR Pistol with removed gas tube... legal?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 05:50:33 AM »
Best bet would be to leave questionable items wherever you are now.  If you take it down to HPD to register and they disagree they could possibly confiscate it.
Or you could call the firearms department and ask them for their interpretation and/ or opinion.

Platinum808

Re: AR Pistol with removed gas tube... legal?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 07:08:21 AM »
Just take apart the upper n lower and just register the lower its only illegal if its put together
Oh ignorant youth, the world is not a joyous place. The time has come for you to dispense with the frivolous pleasures of childhood and get down to honest toil until you are sixty-five. Then and only then can you relax and collect your social security and live happily until the time of your death!

-Hunter S. Thompson

Heavies

Re: AR Pistol with removed gas tube... legal?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2019, 10:35:56 AM »
Just take apart the upper n lower and just register the lower its only illegal if its put together
He wouldn't be able to register because the lower is a pistol lower.  They won't do It because the mag isn't welded.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: AR Pistol with removed gas tube... legal?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2019, 10:38:03 AM »
He wouldn't be able to register because the lower is a pistol lower.  They won't do It because the mag isn't welded.

If it's not registered as a semi-auto, the mag weld should be irrelevant.  Just have to build it as single-shot, manual action.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Falken Hawke

Re: AR Pistol with removed gas tube... legal?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2019, 07:11:52 PM »
Firearms division is very narrow minded regarding AR pistols.  They will basically use any and every means at their disposal to prevent the existence of such a firearm on Oahu irregardless of what the Law says.

Even when the firearm is legal by definition, they still apply law intended for "assault pistols" to said firearm.

I would recommend if the pistol cannot remain out-of-state is to build an 80% with a welded mag(well), stamp some serial # on it, and register that assembly.  For the pistol lower at the Federal level, it can be converted to a rifle and back again if it begins life as a pistol.  There are no HI State Laws concerning this so only the Federal Laws would apply.

Another option would be to attach a 16" barrel or greater rifle upper to the pistol lower.  A pistol with a barrel 16" or greater is not an "assault pistol" but must only use 10 round magazines.  On the Federal level the pistol parts are accountable with the pistol lower and HI State Laws don't have any applicable laws for pistol parts.  So long as they are not assembled together in HI, they are legal.  If going this route however, just remember the above statement regarding HPD's attitude towards AR pistols.

There's also the remote possibility if going this route HPD will simply register it as a rifle.  Since the registration is only applicable in HI, just let them if they insist.

rpoL98

Re: AR Pistol with removed gas tube... legal?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2019, 10:06:32 PM »
is the lower itself marked as a pistol?

if not, why couldn't he strip the firearm down to the stripped lower and go down to HPD and present it?  does the owner have to present previous registrations, purchase documents, etc in order to register the lower with HPD?  just curious, if you're bringing it in from out-of-state, i.e. not purchased locally.  is there a paper trail that shows history as a pistol lower?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: AR Pistol with removed gas tube... legal?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2019, 01:39:47 AM »
is the lower itself marked as a pistol?

if not, why couldn't he strip the firearm down to the stripped lower and go down to HPD and present it?  does the owner have to present previous registrations, purchase documents, etc in order to register the lower with HPD?  just curious, if you're bringing it in from out-of-state, i.e. not purchased locally.  is there a paper trail that shows history as a pistol lower?

When a factory-completed receiver is purchased through an FFL, whatever firearm type is checked on the 4473 is what the receiver "becomes" -- legally speaking. Checking "long gun" means it can never be legally assembled as a pistol. By law, that would make it an SBR. Checking "Handgun" means you can attach any otherwise compliant pistol- or rifle-barreled upper receiver to the lower and be legal.

You are allowed to produce a firearm for personal use without possessing a Federal Firearms License to manufacture and sell guns. Whoever completes it, owns it.  There should not be a paper trail from "previous owners" of the completed receiver since you are not allowed to transfer a firearm you made unless you are a licensed firearm manufacturer.  There are exceptions, but that's the rule as I understand it.

For an 80% lower, the receiver was not required to be controlled by an FFL or registered. So, it's registered as whatever type firearm the person registering it says it is.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw