Maunakea TMT Protests (Read 272975 times)

Rocky

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #520 on: August 11, 2019, 10:33:12 AM »
So, no dynamite was used to build the TWELVE previous telescope observatories? 

 There are 5 volcanoes on Hawaii Island:

Kilauea
Mauna Loa
Hualālai

The first three are active, Mauna Kea is dormant, and Kohala is extinct.

This information is freely available on the Internet.  No need to consult UH, USGS or your local Kahuna.

USGS available on the Internet  :rofl: :rofl:
https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2007/1284/pdf/OF7-1284_508.pdf

   Personally, I've been watching Kilauea's "Hilina Slump" for about 12 years.  :sleeping:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilina_Slump
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #521 on: August 11, 2019, 11:20:04 AM »
My subdivision is located between Kilauea and Mauna Loa.  May be I get chance for own beachfront property if the Hilina Slump breaks off into the ocean.
Happily living in Puna

robtmc

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #522 on: August 11, 2019, 12:33:12 PM »
My subdivision is located between Kilauea and Mauna Loa.  May be I get chance for own beachfront property if the Hilina Slump breaks off into the ocean.
It is the following tsunami you got to worry about.

zippz

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #523 on: August 11, 2019, 12:55:19 PM »
maybe you could call someone at UH for some info that would calm your nerves

Not only that, but what if the nuclear core goes critical and detonates. :rofl:

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #524 on: August 11, 2019, 01:01:32 PM »
tie your shoe lace!
Deeds Not Words

zippz

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #525 on: August 11, 2019, 01:04:20 PM »
I'm a TMT supporter, and also support the right to protest (but not block the road).

On the plus side, I like to see Hawaiians use their 1st amendment right to get out and protest and come together as a group.  Most of them are respectable and I appreciate that.

Lots of negatives though.  Some of them are very stupid, rude, racist, and aggressive.  It really hurts the cause and the good Hawaiians have to police their own people and help them to get a better life instead of living in the victim hood mentality.  It reminds me of the ghettos on the mainland where that ingrained victim hood mentality prevents them from living a better life even though there are lots of opportunities for them.  They should be getting a better education, some of which the TMT provides and better jobs which TMT also provides.  It's scary to think that these people want Hawaiian sovereignty and want to rule the islands when they can't even take care of themselves.

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #526 on: August 11, 2019, 02:09:42 PM »
I'm a TMT supporter, and also support the right to protest (but not block the road).

On the plus side, I like to see Hawaiians use their 1st amendment right to get out and protest and come together as a group.  Most of them are respectable and I appreciate that.

Lots of negatives though.  Some of them are very stupid, rude, racist, and aggressive.  It really hurts the cause and the good Hawaiians have to police their own people and help them to get a better life instead of living in the victim hood mentality.  It reminds me of the ghettos on the mainland where that ingrained victim hood mentality prevents them from living a better life even though there are lots of opportunities for them.  They should be getting a better education, some of which the TMT provides and better jobs which TMT also provides.  It's scary to think that these people want Hawaiian sovereignty and want to rule the islands when they can't even take care of themselves.
zippz goes full rayciss! Or tells the truth. You decide.

mrgaf

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #527 on: August 11, 2019, 05:16:36 PM »
zippz goes full rayciss! Or tells the truth. You decide.

Truth, sometimes it hurts..... :-\
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

zippz

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #528 on: August 11, 2019, 05:49:42 PM »
zippz goes full rayciss! Or tells the truth. You decide.

I believe in equal opportunity where all races have their idiots.

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #529 on: August 11, 2019, 09:59:58 PM »
Deeds Not Words

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #530 on: August 12, 2019, 06:28:15 AM »
Get your official protector shirts here: https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/clo/d/keaau-kiai-mauna-kea-shirts-hoodies-hats/6954764626.html
Only $44 for the long sleeve? I'll get seven of those please. Where's the damn woven reed canoe hat? And why did that guy quit wearing it after the first few days?

oldfart

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #531 on: August 12, 2019, 07:05:09 AM »
Get your official protector shirts here: https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/clo/d/keaau-kiai-mauna-kea-shirts-hoodies-hats/6954764626.html
==============
 :rofl:
The back of the shirt says, "we're not going anywhere"

Translation: "We don't want progress or scientific research here, but we need cell phones, facebook, Instagram, craigslist, bootleg radio station, television coverage, the road that the government built for us, cars and pickup trucks that were designed by oppressive white men,"

Any life form, from viruses, to insects, to people will go extinct if they don't adapt. Those people will sit there and we are all paying for this circus.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 07:11:42 AM by oldfart »
What, Me Worry?

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #532 on: August 12, 2019, 08:10:56 AM »
Lots of negatives though.  Some of them are very stupid, rude, racist, and aggressive.

You are right on point.  There are a number of ill-informed Hawaiians who use racist arguments to get their point across.


It really hurts the cause and the good Hawaiians have to police their own people and help them to get a better life instead of living in the victim hood mentality.

Yes, it is a never-ending battle for educated Hawaiians to educate those Hawaiians with lower educational opportunities.


It reminds me of the ghettos on the mainland where that ingrained victim hood mentality prevents them from living a better life even though there are lots of opportunities for them.  They should be getting a better education, some of which the TMT provides and better jobs which TMT also provides.

You can blame the Democrats that have been in-power for that.


It's scary to think that these people want Hawaiian sovereignty and want to rule the islands when they can't even take care of themselves.

It is not just the lower educated or non-professional Hawaiians that wish restoration of our nation.  Most who are working towards the restoration of our nation are highly educated and working professionals.  That is why most people do not hear the calls for the restoration of the Hawaiian nation from this group; we are busy earning a living.    :thumbsup:

drck1000

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #533 on: August 12, 2019, 08:32:44 AM »
Was discussing TMT and other stuff with a friend last night at a BBQ.  He's actually a friend of a friend.  He isn't well off nor well educated.  His financial and living situation is actually down right crappy.  However, he is able to discuss his beliefs and values in a coherent and rational way.  He sometimes goes off into the "illegal occupation" and "Hawaii gov't as a puppet" angle at times.  Anyways, I don't feel that it's necessarily about those with formal educational opportunities and not.  Education in general can happen in many ways, and not necessarily the formal/traditional route.  Yes, his lack of education does tend to get himself into trouble (such as with his divorce) as he tends to let his emotion override reason and will say stuff that ends up being detrimental.  I see much of that in this thread and what I've read about TMT issue in general.  In the case of my friend, he does seem to be prone to propaganda and being swayed by conjecture, but he is intelligent enough to be open minded and take a pragmatic approach, as opposed to a radical approach. 

Yes, I can see much mockery of those who are choosing voice their opposition of TMT.  I have quite a few close friends who are staunch in their opposition to TMT and see some of the comments on their social media.  Personally, I avoid discussing it, same as religion and politics.  It's already a very charged issue and one which I really don't feel strongly either way. 

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #534 on: August 12, 2019, 08:55:49 AM »
I don’t care one way or the other whether or not it gets built either, as I have no “skin in the game” so to speak.  What bothers me is that an illegal blockade is being allowed when TMT has a valid permit.  Imagine if you bought a vacant lot and got a valid building permit for a home, but people who used that lot to go to the beach did not want you to build your home because it would block access to their favorite fishing spot.  They get the other ones who use that spot to block the contractors from getting there.  You call the police.  They come to watch the protesters and say as long as they are “non-violent “, they can camp on your driveway as long as they want.
Happily living in Puna

astroboy

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #535 on: August 12, 2019, 09:01:06 AM »
==============
 :rofl:
The back of the shirt says, "we're not going anywhere"

Translation: "We don't want progress or scientific research here, but we need cell phones, facebook, Instagram, craigslist, bootleg radio station, television coverage, the road that the government built for us, cars and pickup trucks that were designed by oppressive white men,"

Any life form, from viruses, to insects, to people will go extinct if they don't adapt. Those people will sit there and we are all paying for this circus.

Well said OF. The ancient Polynesians were masters of navigation and managing the resources of each island. They also realized that each island held a finite amount of resources. Exploration became a necessity. The late great Stephen Hawking stated that due to our exponentially growing population the human race has 100-200 years left before we start to kill each other over the ever dwindling resources. Once this begins it will be too late to find another planet. We can easily envision our planet as an island in the vast universe.

The dinosaurs did not have a space program and we all know how that ended. The sooner we can locate a planet killer asteroid and deal with it, the better our chances of survival. The TMT will give us a better chance of finding a planet killer at a far enough distance that it can deal with it. If the human race goes extinct, then all cultures and religions will be lost and gone forever. No one will be left to carry on or care.     

drck1000

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #536 on: August 12, 2019, 09:02:35 AM »
I don’t care one way or the other whether or not it gets built either, as I have no “skin in the game” so to speak.  What bothers me is that an illegal blockade is being allowed when TMT has a valid permit.  Imagine if you bought a vacant lot and got a valid building permit for a home, but people who used that lot to go to the beach did not want you to build your home because it would block access to their favorite fishing spot.  They get the other ones who use that spot to block the contractors from getting there.  You call the police.  They come to watch the protesters and say as long as they are “non-violent “, they can camp on your driveway as long as they want.
Effectively a hostage situation.  And yeah, that is one aspect that is certainly troubling and I feel will only embolden those to act similarly in the future.  I am just happy that the blocking of traffic non-sense stopped. 

drck1000

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #537 on: August 12, 2019, 09:05:33 AM »
"So im against the TMT and understand all points made BUT what about the fact that they want to build a telescope near an almost active volcano (Mauna Loa).. wouldnt using dynamite near a volcano be very dangerous and unpredictable?? Ive never EVER heard of anyone building or using dynamite near a volcano that's near another volcano (kilauea) which until recently was flowing prettyy heavy. Does anyone know the "Science" of using dynamite near a volcano??? I once watched a documentary that said if Mauna loa erupted it would cause a Tsunami that would wipe out the island chain in minutes with the wave going OVER diamond head.... any thoughts?? Someone who understands geology please helppp"
It's been a while since I've taken geology (like 20+ years).  However, we are taking about orders of magnitude (quite a LOT in layman's terms) of energy differences here.  Like throwing a firecracker at a meteor the size of Texas (from Armaggedon).  Well, I guess one could get lots of TNT. . . or detonate a nuke in their silo. . .

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #538 on: August 12, 2019, 09:07:38 AM »
I don’t care one way or the other whether or not it gets built either, as I have no “skin in the game” so to speak.  What bothers me is that an illegal blockade is being allowed when TMT has a valid permit.  Imagine if you bought a vacant lot and got a valid building permit for a home, but people who used that lot to go to the beach did not want you to build your home because it would block access to their favorite fishing spot.  They get the other ones who use that spot to block the contractors from getting there.  You call the police.  They come to watch the protesters and say as long as they are “non-violent “, they can camp on your driveway as long as they want.

I never disagreed with this premise, as this is a valid argument.  I guess those in-control value the Hawaiian vote? 

In the long-run, TMT is inconsequential to the economic survival of Hawaii and to proceed with TMT at this point might be a pyrrhic victory.  If I were Ige, cut Hawaii's losses and ties with TMT and start looking for other ways to bring money to the islands.

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #539 on: August 12, 2019, 09:13:13 AM »
The sooner we can locate a planet killer asteroid and deal with it, the better our chances of survival. The TMT will give us a better chance of finding a planet killer at a far enough distance that it can deal with it. If the human race goes extinct, then all cultures and religions will be lost and gone forever. No one will be left to carry on or care.     

If the US was really serious in this regard, it should lead the way, cut their military spending, stop creating military bases all over the World, and devote more of its resources to this effect.  Having one more telescope will do nothing, if there is no additional resources to combat that killer asteroid.