Discharging a Firearm on Private Property (Read 11717 times)

dogman

Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« on: September 28, 2019, 03:25:50 PM »
I had discussions today at the gun show with Hunters Ed, HRA and HIFCO with different answers. Can someone post an actual law that states it is illegal to discharge a firearm on private residential property within the City and County of Honolulu . I'm not so great at looking up these things but what I could find was discharging a firearm toward a populated area or roadway is reckless endangering. I do know the projectile cannot leave the property and there is a noise ordinance limiting decibels and duration. I looked at previous threads about this, which also had conflicting opinions, but no post contained the actual worded law that states it is illegal to discharge a firearm on private residential property within the City and County of Honolulu.

dogman

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2019, 03:40:40 PM »
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=14474.0

Hunters Ed did say I should get an eradication permit. If I heard correctly, crossbow hunting will very likely become legal.

zippz

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2019, 06:00:47 PM »
Here it is.  Follow the link for additional commentary.  The way I read it is it depends how you shoot your gun.  If you got a regular house in town and shooting in your backyard, that's not going to work.  If you got a fully contained range like the target range in a shipping container, then probably okay.  Maybe if you're property is up against a tall mountain I dunno.

Could be considered reckless even if you have berms since you can shoot over the berm or have ND's to the sides.  Forest isn't a backstop and people could be walking through it.  Lots of things to consider.

§707-714  Reckless endangering in the second degree.
 Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway; provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any person who discharges a firearm upon a target range for the purpose of the target shooting done in compliance with all laws and regulations applicable thereto.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0707/HRS_0707-0714.htm

rklapp

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2019, 06:12:21 PM »
From my understanding, it comes down to how will the police find out about you discharging a firearm on your property. If you're in the city, half your neighbors will call in. The more who call in, the more credible the report. If you're in the country, hopefully your neighbor in the property near you isn't a dickhead and report you. Too bad we can't use suppressors.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

dogman

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2019, 07:02:16 PM »

§707-714  Reckless endangering in the second degree.
 Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway; provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any person who discharges a firearm upon a target range for the purpose of the target shooting done in compliance with all laws and regulations applicable thereto.
Thanks zippz!
That's pretty clear, even for me.
If you intentionally discharge a firearm in a residential area that is not set up (compliant) as a target shooting range, you would be charged with misdemeanor reckless endangering in the second degree.

groveler

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2019, 10:19:39 AM »
From my understanding, it comes down to how will the police find out about you discharging a firearm on your property. If you're in the city, half your neighbors will call in. The more who call in, the more credible the report. If you're in the country, hopefully your neighbor in the property near you isn't a dickhead and report you. Too bad we can't use suppressors.
I had that problem, dickhead neighbor.
Dickhead moved away.
BTW Hawaii doesn't have cities.
Law says you need to be 50 yards away from a public road. 
The law also says you can't
shoot within 500 feet of an occupied dwelling.
So on my property than puts me in about a 30 foot
circle in the middle of it.
I bought a 1,000 FPS 22 cal air rifle to keep in practice.
I've fired enough ammo in my life not to flinch If I transition
back to a "real gun".
Meanwhile I keep up the breathing and squeeze muscle
training.
"Aim small, shoot small"


RSN172

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2019, 11:10:33 AM »
Subsonic 22 rimfire is extremely quiet.  22 short is quiet enough that a neighbor 200 feet away won't hear it or even if they did, won't think it was a gunshot.
Given the closeness of homes on most parts of Oahu, you might have to stick to subsonic.
Happily living in Puna

stangzilla

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2019, 08:41:59 AM »
so what if you set up a target range on your property?
ok to shoot?

6716J

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2019, 09:39:31 AM »
Do airsoft.... but here's the rules:






Article 8.  Air Guns
Sections:
41-8.1 Definitions.
41-8.2 Restrictions on sale, rental, gift or other transfer. 41-8.3 Restrictions on use.
41-8.4 Exceptions.
41-8.5 Seizure, forfeiture and disposal. 41-8.6 Violation--Penalty.

Sec. 41-8.1 Definitions.
"Air gun" means any gun, rifle or pistol, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a pellet or BB shot by the action of compressed air or gas, or by the action of a spring or elastic but does not include any firearm.
"Dealer" means any person engaged in the business of selling or renting air guns. (Sec. 13-19.1, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))

Sec. 41-8.2 Restrictions on sale, rental, gift or other transfer.
(a)   It is unlawful for any dealer to sell, lend, rent, give or otherwise transfer an air gun to any person under the age of 18 years where the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe the person to be under 18 years of age or where the dealer has failed to make reasonable inquiry relative to the age of such person and such person is under 18 years of age.
(b)   It is unlawful for any person to sell, lend, rent, give or otherwise transfer any air gun to any person under 18 years of age, except where the relationship of parent and child, guardian and ward, or adult instructor and pupil exists between such person and the person under 18 years of age.
(Sec. 13-19.2, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))

Sec. 41-8.3 Restrictions on use.
(a)   It is unlawful for any person to carry or display an air gun on any street, alley, public road or on any public land, unless the air gun is unloaded and in a suitable case or securely wrapped.
(b)   It is unlawful for any person to discharge any air gun from or across any street, sidewalk, alley or public land (park?), or any public place except on a properly constructed target range. Anyone know if we could set up an airsoft 3-gun or simliar in Patsy Mink or other park?
(c)   It is unlawful for any person to discharge any air gun on any private parcel of land or residence in such a manner that the pellet or BB shot may reasonably be expected to traverse any ground or space outside the limits of such parcel of land or residence or in such a manner that persons or property may be endangered; provided, that nothing in this article shall be deemed to prevent any person who has obtained a hunting license pursuant to HRS Chapter 183D from engaging in hunting in accordance with law. So set up an appropriate trap behind your target areas. But the key words are reasonably be expected
(d)   It is unlawful for any person to discharge any air gun in such a manner or under such circumstances that persons or property may be endangered.
(Sec. 13-19.3, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.); Am. Ord. 96-58, 03-23)

Sec. 41-8.4 Exceptions.
Notwithstanding any provision of this article to the contrary, it shall be lawful for any person to possess an air gun if it is:
(a)   Kept within such person's domicile.
(b)   Used by a person under 18 years of age, who is a duly enrolled member of any club, team or society organized for education or training purposes and maintaining as a part of its facilities or having written permission to use an indoor or outdoor target range, when the air gun is used at such target range under the supervision, guidance and instruction of a responsible adult.
(c)   Used by a person 18 years of age or older at a properly constructed target range.
(d)   Used in or on any private parcel of land or residence under circumstances in which the air gun can be fired, discharged or operated in such a manner as not to endanger persons or property and in such manner as to prevent the pellet or BB shot from traversing any grounds or space outside the limits of such parcel of land or residence.
(e)   Used in hunting or going to or from the place of hunting in accordance with law by a person who has obtained a hunting license pursuant to HRS Chapter 183D or who, if such person is under 18 years of age, has obtained such a hunting license and is accompanied by an adult who has obtained such hunting license.
 
(f) Used by a person involved in a living history presentation or other activity for historical interpretation or educational purposes, or by a person participating in a parade if such activity or parade participant is associated with an established historical organization, museum, military preservation organization, or other group with a mission to educate the public at various events through the use of historical artifacts, clothing, vehicles, aircraft, maritime vessels, and firearms or replicas thereof.
(Sec. 13-19.4, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.); Am. Ord. 96-58, 03-23, 03-35)

Sec. 41-8.5 Seizure, forfeiture and disposal.
Any police officer who arrests any person for possessing, using, lending, renting, giving or transferring an air gun in violation of any provisions of this article shall take custody of such air gun. Upon conviction of such person the air gun so seized shall be forfeited to the city. Any air gun so forfeited shall remain in the custody of the police department for one year and thereafter destroyed; provided, that such air gun shall be retained for subsequent proceedings, both civil or criminal, and until any such action is concluded, if any person desiring the use of such forfeited air gun as evidence files with the chief of police a written notice of an intention to so use the air gun before the destruction date herein provided. (Sec. 13-19.5, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))

Sec. 41-8.6 Violation--Penalty.
Any person violating any provision of this article shall, upon conviction, be punished by a fine not exceeding $500.00 or imprisonment for a period not exceeding one year, or both. (Sec. 13-19.6, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

groveler

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2019, 11:27:35 AM »
Do airsoft.... but here's the rules:






Article 8.  Air Guns
Sections:
41-8.1 Definitions.
41-8.2 Restrictions on sale, rental, gift or other transfer. 41-8.3 Restrictions on use.
41-8.4 Exceptions.
41-8.5 Seizure, forfeiture and disposal. 41-8.6 Violation--Penalty.

Sec. 41-8.1 Definitions.
"Air gun" means any gun, rifle or pistol, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a pellet or BB shot by the action of compressed air or gas, or by the action of a spring or elastic but does not include any firearm.
"Dealer" means any person engaged in the business of selling or renting air guns. (Sec. 13-19.1, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))

Sec. 41-8.2 Restrictions on sale, rental, gift or other transfer.
(a)   It is unlawful for any dealer to sell, lend, rent, give or otherwise transfer an air gun to any person under the age of 18 years where the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe the person to be under 18 years of age or where the dealer has failed to make reasonable inquiry relative to the age of such person and such person is under 18 years of age.
(b)   It is unlawful for any person to sell, lend, rent, give or otherwise transfer any air gun to any person under 18 years of age, except where the relationship of parent and child, guardian and ward, or adult instructor and pupil exists between such person and the person under 18 years of age.
(Sec. 13-19.2, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))

Sec. 41-8.3 Restrictions on use.
(a)   It is unlawful for any person to carry or display an air gun on any street, alley, public road or on any public land, unless the air gun is unloaded and in a suitable case or securely wrapped.
(b)   It is unlawful for any person to discharge any air gun from or across any street, sidewalk, alley or public land (park?), or any public place except on a properly constructed target range. Anyone know if we could set up an airsoft 3-gun or simliar in Patsy Mink or other park?
(c)   It is unlawful for any person to discharge any air gun on any private parcel of land or residence in such a manner that the pellet or BB shot may reasonably be expected to traverse any ground or space outside the limits of such parcel of land or residence or in such a manner that persons or property may be endangered; provided, that nothing in this article shall be deemed to prevent any person who has obtained a hunting license pursuant to HRS Chapter 183D from engaging in hunting in accordance with law. So set up an appropriate trap behind your target areas. But the key words are reasonably be expected
(d)   It is unlawful for any person to discharge any air gun in such a manner or under such circumstances that persons or property may be endangered.
(Sec. 13-19.3, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.); Am. Ord. 96-58, 03-23)

Sec. 41-8.4 Exceptions.
Notwithstanding any provision of this article to the contrary, it shall be lawful for any person to possess an air gun if it is:
(a)   Kept within such person's domicile.
(b)   Used by a person under 18 years of age, who is a duly enrolled member of any club, team or society organized for education or training purposes and maintaining as a part of its facilities or having written permission to use an indoor or outdoor target range, when the air gun is used at such target range under the supervision, guidance and instruction of a responsible adult.
(c)   Used by a person 18 years of age or older at a properly constructed target range.
(d)   Used in or on any private parcel of land or residence under circumstances in which the air gun can be fired, discharged or operated in such a manner as not to endanger persons or property and in such manner as to prevent the pellet or BB shot from traversing any grounds or space outside the limits of such parcel of land or residence.
(e)   Used in hunting or going to or from the place of hunting in accordance with law by a person who has obtained a hunting license pursuant to HRS Chapter 183D or who, if such person is under 18 years of age, has obtained such a hunting license and is accompanied by an adult who has obtained such hunting license.
 
(f) Used by a person involved in a living history presentation or other activity for historical interpretation or educational purposes, or by a person participating in a parade if such activity or parade participant is associated with an established historical organization, museum, military preservation organization, or other group with a mission to educate the public at various events through the use of historical artifacts, clothing, vehicles, aircraft, maritime vessels, and firearms or replicas thereof.
(Sec. 13-19.4, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.); Am. Ord. 96-58, 03-23, 03-35)

Sec. 41-8.5 Seizure, forfeiture and disposal.
Any police officer who arrests any person for possessing, using, lending, renting, giving or transferring an air gun in violation of any provisions of this article shall take custody of such air gun. Upon conviction of such person the air gun so seized shall be forfeited to the city. Any air gun so forfeited shall remain in the custody of the police department for one year and thereafter destroyed; provided, that such air gun shall be retained for subsequent proceedings, both civil or criminal, and until any such action is concluded, if any person desiring the use of such forfeited air gun as evidence files with the chief of police a written notice of an intention to so use the air gun before the destruction date herein provided. (Sec. 13-19.5, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))

Sec. 41-8.6 Violation--Penalty.
Any person violating any provision of this article shall, upon conviction, be punished by a fine not exceeding $500.00 or imprisonment for a period not exceeding one year, or both. (Sec. 13-19.6, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))
Hawaii has no legal rules defining a "city".
Hawaii doesn't have cities.
You are describing Honolulu county Law?
I don't live on Ohau nor would I ever,
no better than any other CA city.
I actually wish the rest of us could abandon Honolulu
and make the new capitol Lahina again.
The laws you print  seem to be pretty usual Honolulu Democrat
anti-gun crud.
That doesn't work on the other 7 islands.


ren

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2019, 12:22:40 PM »
Irrelevant as the occupiers' laws are illegal.
Deeds Not Words

drck1000

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2019, 12:39:47 PM »
Quote
(b)   It is unlawful for any person to discharge any air gun from or across any street, sidewalk, alley or public land (park?), or any public place except on a properly constructed target range. Anyone know if we could set up an airsoft 3-gun or simliar in Patsy Mink or other park?
I used to shoot with a group that would meet up somewhere on the North Shore.  I don't believe it was a formal park for airsoft. 

Two of my buddies' kids are really into airsoft.  Almost as expensive as the "real stuff".  Maybe even more as you need the gas AND the BBs, which is about the same or more $$$ as the centerfire ammo I buy.  At least the stuff I bought for my buddy's son for his birthday. 

zippz

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2019, 12:56:33 PM »
I'm sure you could get a permit to have an airsoft tournament at a public park.  But you'll spend half the day picking up pellets.

6716J

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2019, 01:25:08 PM »
I'm sure you could get a permit to have an airsoft tournament at a public park.  But you'll spend half the day picking up pellets.

Biodegradable... Doesn't say how long it takes but "environmentally friendly"...

5000 for $15, so just $0.003/each and with gas its still less than a penny a round



https://www.amazon.com/QingLiu-Airgun-0-20g-Biodegradable-Airsoft/dp/B07FRZFRF2/ref=pd_sbs_200_t_1/142-8001515-6472469?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07FRZFRF2&pd_rd_r=6f4be487-898a-4c56-964d-699ee617de01&pd_rd_w=QFpRN&pd_rd_wg=ajxCG&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=24M5ESBVJ4ZB77E9ZYQZ&psc=1&refRID=24M5ESBVJ4ZB77E9ZYQZ
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

rklapp

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2019, 10:59:31 PM »
Subsonic 22 rimfire is extremely quiet.  22 short is quiet enough that a neighbor 200 feet away won't hear it or even if they did, won't think it was a gunshot.
Given the closeness of homes on most parts of Oahu, you might have to stick to subsonic.
I have a 22 rimfire pistol. Shoots around 1050fps. I shot in the wilderness once (not here). Not ear splitting but still rather loud.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

RSN172

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2019, 06:02:41 AM »
I have a 22 rimfire pistol. Shoots around 1050fps. I shot in the wilderness once (not here). Not ear splitting but still rather loud.
That is not subsonic.  Try something around 700fps.  You will be surprised how quiet it is.
Happily living in Puna

6716J

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2019, 07:41:48 AM »
That is not subsonic.  Try something around 700fps.  You will be surprised how quiet it is.

Try the 22 CB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_CB

http://tacticalintelligence.net/blog/22-cb-cap.htm
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

rklapp

Re: Discharging a Firearm on Private Property
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2019, 09:51:05 PM »
That is not subsonic.  Try something around 700fps.  You will be surprised how quiet it is.
Technically it is but doesn't sound like it you're probably right. The 223 suppressed I've seen at the Vegas CCSC are about the same decibel. The 22CB looks interesting.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/