I have heard some disturbing news. The next meeting of Hawaii Kai Neighborhood Board will hear or discuss the Kokohead shooting complex.  Namely the concern that projectiles are, or were, falling into adjacent areas.
I heard this announcement this morning at the range right before they opened up.  I'll bet that most folks didn't even hear this announcement due to the state of the art PA system they have. None the less this is what I recall.

This can go so very badly for the range, I cannot even stress enough, the urgency of this.  It was recommended to attend the meeting if possible.  If you live in this district, please voice your opinion on this matter. 

I know that .50 BMG rounds have made it over the mountain before, but I have never heard of other incidents, recent any way, that this has been occuring.  Safety at the range is a huge concern, and I believe that the range officers do the best they can do to keep every one safe. 

The meeting is said to be next Tuesday, however, I cannot find any details or agenda on the internet.  (hum, I wonder why??)  Hope I am not crying wolf, but this is what I have heard.



Here is a listing of email addresses in case you can not attend, but want to contact the board...
http://www1.honolulu.gov/nco/members.htm#nb1

Update:

MAY 29 Tuesday
7:00 P.M.
Hawaii Kai NB 1, Hahaione
Elementary School Cafetorium,
595 Pepeekeo Street
Agendas

Update:

Agenda for meeting...
http://www1.honolulu.gov/nco/nb1/12/1mayag.htm

6.    NEW BUSINESS
    6.1.    Discussion/Action relating to the safety of Koko Head Shooting Complex and bullets recently found on rooftops of homes on Ahukini Street and in Kalama Valley

I was at the rifle side this morning and heard the same announcement.  After that announcement I remembered overhearing a couple of the guys talking about it on the pistol side a couple of weeks ago.  Apparently HPD and the complainant had been there earlier in the day investigating and speaking with staff regarding the incident.

Wondering if the projectiles punctured the persons roof, and what day this occurred?  Why would anyone be firing at that angle? ND? 

strange...

I would love to examine those bullets. I can't believe any bullets can travel that far with all the ballistics tests we use to do.

I really don't know the details, but from what I overheard, a homeowner found a bullet on their property.  The property owner, along with HPD, investigated by talking to KHSC staff about the incident.  From what I heard, the staff brought up the fact that the complex is not only used by the pubic,  but also by various agencies.  Furthermore, on Mondays and Tuesdays, the park is closed, but not exactly secured.  One thing that was allegedly brought up is that the bullet was in "pristine" condition, so it supposedly wasn't a riccochet.  Sounds like a ND, but who's to blame is the problem.

Years ago i got some first hand scoop of the 45 acp bullet that hit a house. This was when the pistol range was on the other side. It was never solved but i still think it was someone shooting from the hill into the houses. The bullet lodged into the roof and went 1" deep into the wood. The bullet was still intact and didnt look like a ricochet. It was so fishy. But hpd said it came from the range. It was just total bs.

Sounds like the result of the vigorous New Year and 4th celebrations, and a yahoo cranking off some rounds into the air.  Kalama Valley turns literally into a war zone. Easy to see why some fool could think popping a few caps would not get noticed.

.50BMG fired over the crater would land somewhere up by Makapuu, not Kalama Valley.

+1 I also wonder what type of bullet that they found. Was it a pistol or rifle bullet?

Wondering if the projectiles punctured the persons roof, and what day this occurred?  Why would anyone be firing at that angle? ND? 

strange...

Wondering if the projectiles punctured the persons roof, and what day this occurred?  Why would anyone be firing at that angle? ND? 

strange...

I seriously doubt a bullet would penetrate someone's roof unless fired directly into the roof.  If it was a ND I don't believe it's got the velocity to penetrate the roof given it's probably falling at near terminal velocity.  Also if it was a ND I think it would be fairly obvious who is responsible due to the angle they would have to be elevated at to reach those houses.

I would love to examine those bullets. I can't believe any bullets can travel that far with all the ballistics tests we use to do.

I would like to see the bullet as well.  Right now no word on if it's a rifle or a pistol bullet.

I really don't know the details, but from what I overheard, a homeowner found a bullet on their property.  The property owner, along with HPD, investigated by talking to KHSC staff about the incident.  From what I heard, the staff brought up the fact that the complex is not only used by the pubic,  but also by various agencies.  Furthermore, on Mondays and Tuesdays, the park is closed, but not exactly secured.  One thing that was allegedly brought up is that the bullet was in "pristine" condition, so it supposedly wasn't a riccochet.  Sounds like a ND, but who's to blame is the problem.

Ahukini St. I can see being a ND as you're talking about 1,000 meters (meters not yards) so it's possible.  I'm calling BS on Kalama Valley as it's pushing over 2,000 meters (rough estimates using Google Maps) unless it's a rifle round.  Again the angle needed to clear the valley and get it to either location would mean that the guy who did it intentionally or ND would be easily apparent to others.

Years ago i got some first hand scoop of the 45 acp bullet that hit a house. This was when the pistol range was on the other side. It was never solved but i still think it was someone shooting from the hill into the houses. The bullet lodged into the roof and went 1" deep into the wood. The bullet was still intact and didnt look like a ricochet. It was so fishy. But hpd said it came from the range. It was just total bs.

I would agree that if the bullet is embedded into the roof it doesn't sound like a ricochet or something that is coming down at terminal velocity.  It sounds like an aimed direct line of fire.

So what is the contingency plan were kokohead to be shut down? Or maybe half would get shut down, the half that faces the residential area (pistol/rifle.)

Maybe a roof that would catch stray bullets could be built but I would fear ricochets. Some of the units that train at kokohead do not shoot from the benches though, they are out in the field.

If it came to shutting down kokohead range or shutting down the hike I would say shut down the hike, but we cannot shutdown the residential area so what would happen if the state shut down kokohead?
I would hope they would have the decency to build a replacement range somewhere. Heck even charge a dollar admission to help cover some expenses. Where could they build it without sending it out to Waianae. (sorry Waianae people)

So what is the contingency plan were kokohead to be shut down? Or maybe half would get shut down, the half that faces the residential area (pistol/rifle.)

Maybe a roof that would catch stray bullets could be built but I would fear ricochets. Some of the units that train at kokohead do not shoot from the benches though, they are out in the field.

If it came to shutting down kokohead range or shutting down the hike I would say shut down the hike, but we cannot shutdown the residential area so what would happen if the state shut down kokohead?
I would hope they would have the decency to build a replacement range somewhere. Heck even charge a dollar admission to help cover some expenses. Where could they build it without sending it out to Waianae. (sorry Waianae people)

Is the hike legal.
.

Yes the hike is legal. I doubt koko head would be shut down...though a range closer to the north shore would be nice!

Somewhere in central Oahu would be the most fair.... Aiea, Kalihi, etc.

As long as the range continues to remain where it is, the issue will always come up every few years. It doesn't matter what changes or fixes are made, some residents won't be happy until the range is shut down.

Yes the hike is legal. I doubt koko head would be shut down...though a range closer to the north shore would be nice!

It won't...Maybe closed for "improvements", but not shut down. Having another range would be nice.

Somewhere in central Oahu would be the most fair.... Aiea, Kalihi, etc.

Ignorance exists in every neighborhood...A range in central Oahu would encounter the same problem of "phantom bullets" landing where they shouldn't. The best thing would be something miles away from residential areas that uses the Koolau or Waianae mountain range as a backstop.

Ignorance exists in every neighborhood...A range in central Oahu would encounter the same problem of "phantom bullets" landing where they shouldn't. The best thing would be something miles away from residential areas that uses the Koolau or Waianae mountain range as a backstop.

That's a riot!  (Sort of like trying to build something on an ant pile, while staying away from the ants.)

So is anyone going to the meeting tonight?  Just curious.  Might be good to have some testimony for the range, and/or to challenge the claim of the bullet found on the roof...

I just wonder where the affected (or claimed to be affected) house is located. If it's located Ewa of the range, then it would have to be from someone shooting in the bays and that could include LE and others who utilize that facility.

I've seen the local PD snipers shooting from near the roadway toward the shooting bays. This was after they had finished their shooting/training on the range. I am not positive, but I thought they were shooting at objects up on the side of the backstop, above the worn out section. I would think that they are good enough shooters to not shoot over the hill, but $hit happens.

There could also be some that use the range when it's not open. I would also be interested in seeing what caliber round found its way into the residential area. Could be from people shooting from anywhere in the area and not necessarily from the Koko Head range.

It's hard to come up with a rebuttal or excuse for this issue.  I just said in the limited experience that I have had at the range, safety is constantly enforced.  But like others have said the public is not the only one using the complex.  I have emailed, as I am not able to attend, hopefully they don't ignore it.

I just wonder where the affected (or claimed to be affected) house is located. If it's located Ewa of the range, then it would have to be from someone shooting in the bays and that could include LE and others who utilize that facility.

I've seen the local PD snipers shooting from near the roadway toward the shooting bays. This was after they had finished their shooting/training on the range. I am not positive, but I thought they were shooting at objects up on the side of the backstop, above the worn out section. I would think that they are good enough shooters to not shoot over the hill, but $hit happens.

There could also be some that use the range when it's not open. I would also be interested in seeing what caliber round found its way into the residential area. Could be from people shooting from anywhere in the area and not necessarily from the Koko Head range.

The link says Ahukini St.and Kalama Valley.  As I stated above I find it hard to believe that Kalama Valley is affected through a ND as it has to be an extreme angle and with a rifle.  It's asking a lot to do with a pistol round.  Ahukini Street I can see with a pistol or rifle round, but again the angle is extreme and not something easily done.  In either case I think the guy with the ND would be very easy to determine by those around him due to the extreme angle needing to clear the crater rim as well as get enough elevation to meet the street in question (along with the angle of aim). 

The Kalama Valley issue is even worse as you need to clear the best part of the mountain to get to the Valley.

Just go to Google maps and plug in "Ahukini Street" and "Kalama Valley" and you'll see what I'm talking about.  Run the satellite view and you can see the bays in question and how unlikely it would be that a ND would not be noticed.