What if Soleimani wasn't killed... (Read 23726 times)

ren

What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« on: January 07, 2020, 09:28:55 AM »
I'd surmise that the Dems would accuse him of a missed opportunity. He was negligent. etc.
Deeds Not Words

drck1000

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2020, 09:37:02 AM »
I'd surmise that the Dems would accuse him of a missed opportunity. He was negligent. etc.
Wasting the $$$ for operation of the drone and cost of the hellfire. . .

stangzilla

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2020, 10:37:23 AM »
the dems statements and actions are all politically motivated
doesn't matter what Trump does, its wrong in their mind
they hate Trump so much that now they are on the terrorists side

oldfart

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2020, 10:53:10 AM »
the dems statements and actions are all politically motivated
doesn't matter what Trump does, its wrong in their mind
they hate Trump so much that now they are on the terrorists side
...
Yeah, I was just about to write the exact same thing. Trump could cure cancer and the haters will still hate him.
What, Me Worry?

changemyoil66

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2020, 12:10:08 PM »
Sounds like you need me to issue you a tin foil hat. 

Iran did say they would name names for where the billions they received from the US went.

Kuleana

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2020, 04:17:27 PM »
The only group that should rejoice in this assassination are ISIS and Al-Qaeda; since the forces he controlled were instrumental in defeating those groups in Syria and Iraq.

With his demise, I can see how ISIS and Al-Qaeda are probably singing, "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow," in praise of Trump.

Good going USA!

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2020, 05:29:48 PM »
The only group that should rejoice in this assassination are ISIS and Al-Qaeda; since the forces he controlled were instrumental in defeating those groups in Syria and Iraq.

With his demise, I can see how ISIS and Al-Qaeda are probably singing, "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow," in praise of Trump.

Good going USA!


Really?

I think ISIS and Al-Qaeda are sitting back going, "Whew!!  Glad Trump wasn't coming after us again!"

Obama embolden our enemies.  Trump is demonstrating strength and the resolve to use it.

You hate Trump and the USA.  We all know that.  Your snarky comments aren't clever.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2020, 05:42:07 PM »
Really?

I think ISIS and Al-Qaeda are sitting back going, "Whew!!  Glad Trump wasn't coming after us again!"

Obama embolden our enemies.  Trump is demonstrating strength and the resolve to use it.

You hate Trump and the USA.  We all know that.  Your snarky comments aren't clever.

Your response clearly shows how much you DO NOT KNOW about the whole situation and only wish to see an escalation of war in the Middle East by the US that will cost lots of US lives for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Oh, BTW, please CONTINUE WITH YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS, as it shows to everyone that's the ONLY THING you can offer in this discussion.




Flapp_Jackson

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2020, 05:54:43 PM »
Your response clearly shows how much you DO NOT KNOW about the whole situation and only wish to see an escalation of war in the Middle East by the US that will cost lots of US lives for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Oh, BTW, please CONTINUE WITH YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS, as it shows to everyone that's the ONLY THING you can offer in this discussion.


What I know is in April, an Iranian official requested asylum in the US.  In exchange, he handed over a large number of classified documents, including plans involving the militias under Soleimani's command.  It's been said the attack on the Baghdad Embassy was part of those plans.

It was the next month when the US designated Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a foreign terrorist organization.

This was not a coincidence.

Congress has been briefed on the intelligence used to support the assassination.  Some of their comments afterward lead me to believe many now have no problem with Trump's decision.

Soleimani was a military target, and it was 100% legit for Trump to order his termination.  Don't believe me?  Ask Obama's former DHS head.

Obama’s DHS Secretary Debunks Dems’ Claim
Trump Didn’t Have Authority To Kill Soleimani;
Now He’s Under Fire From Left


Quote
The secretary of the Department of Homeland Security under Barack Obama appeared on “Meet the Press”
Sunday to discuss President Trump’s decision to take out Iran’s top military leader, Qassem Soleimani, the
head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps-Quds Force, a U.S.-designated Foreign Terrorist Organization,
who the Pentagon says was “actively developing plans” for more attacks on Americans.

During the interview, former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson torpedoed the Democrats’ talking point about Trump
supposedly needing congressional approval to order the strike on Soleimani. Whether or not you agree with
the Trump administration’s description of Soleimani as a terrorist,” Johnson explained, the president had
“ample domestic legal authority to take him out without additional congressional authorization.”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-obamas-dhs-secretary-debunks-dems-claim-trump-didnt-have-authority-to-kill-soleimani-now-hes-under-fire-from-left

I remember the 9-11 Commission gave part of the blame for the attack to President Clinton, who had more than one opportunity to kill Bin Laden but decided not to.

Imagine if the attacks Soleimani had planned were executed and thousands were killed.  Imagine the finger-pointing in Trump's direction when it's learned he'd decided not to take the opportunity when he had it.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2020, 05:58:09 PM »
Oh, BTW, please CONTINUE WITH YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS, as it shows to everyone that's the ONLY THING you can offer in this discussion.
[/b]


Cry me a river.  Your anti-US, anti-Trump BS gets really old.  Maybe post something positive once in a while, and everybody here won't click on a thread, see your name, and think, "Oh, fuck!  Here he goes again!"
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2020, 06:29:06 PM »
Your response clearly shows how much you DO NOT KNOW about the whole situation and only wish to see an escalation of war in the Middle East by the US that will cost lots of US lives for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Oh, BTW, please CONTINUE WITH YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS, as it shows to everyone that's the ONLY THING you can offer in this discussion.


curious, what's your background in middle east affairs? Did you major in pol sci?
Deeds Not Words

aieahound

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2020, 06:38:07 PM »
curious, what's your background in middle east affairs? Did you major in pol sci?

Part Hawaiian studies? Part European studies ?  Part Asian studies ?

Maybe post something positive once in a while, and everybody here won't click on a thread, see your name, and think, "Oh, fuck!  Here he goes again!"

Damn. There’s that mirror again.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 06:51:13 PM by aieahound »

Kuleana

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2020, 08:56:06 PM »
curious, what's your background in middle east affairs? Did you major in pol sci?

For you Ren, I will answer your question.

I am a part Hawaiian and part a bunch of other ethnicities, who is an academically trained practicing economist.  I am also a life-long amateur military historian, who has enjoyed learning about wars throughout the ages and the empires that have partaken in them.

When studying the timelines of World history to the present, there has been always one or more empires in power in some part of the Globe.  After WWII, there were two empires, that of the Soviets and the Americans.  Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the American empire became the sole empire on the planet.  However, a number of metrics that are used to measure empires have pointed out that the American empire is in decline.  When I look at the problems the US has with Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, etc., I see them nothing more as nation states that knows the days of the American empire are numbered and are jockeying for position to fill the vacuum when that day happens. 

What's your background?

ren

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2020, 09:04:27 PM »
For you Ren, I will answer your question.

I am a part Hawaiian and part a bunch of other ethnicities, who is an academically trained practicing economist.  I am also a life-long amateur military historian, who has enjoyed learning about wars throughout the ages and the empires that have partaken in them.

When studying the timelines of World history to the present, there has been always one or more empires in power in some part of the Globe.  After WWII, there were two empires, that of the Soviets and the Americans.  Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the American empire became the sole empire on the planet.  However, a number of metrics that are used to measure empires have pointed out that the American empire is in decline.  When I look at the problems the US has with Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, etc., I see them nothing more as nation states that knows the days of the American empire are numbered and are jockeying for position to fill the vacuum when that day happens. 

What's your background?


I majored in business administration. I just see competition among the world powers. I don't perceive America as an Empire. Did you go to UH too?
Deeds Not Words

drck1000

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2020, 09:04:54 PM »
Kuleana - It seems (just my opinion) that you look at many things through a pretty fine lens. As an economist one some issues, as a historian on some issues, proud Hawaiian, plus others. Don’t want to presume to know your whole background. But you seem to be quick to discount what others don’t understand. Just consider the possibility that there are other lenses to view the world that others may value and have some insight. Also consider that’s there’s a lot of information on the Iran issue that is not reported on the news.

ren

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2020, 09:06:25 PM »
Kuleana - It seems (just my opinion) that you look at many things through a pretty fine lens. As an economist one some issues, as a historian on some issues, proud Hawaiian, plus others. Don’t want to presume to know your whole background. But you seem to be quick to discount what others don’t understand. Just consider the possibility that there are other lenses to view the world that others may value and have some insight. Also consider that’s there’s a lot of information on the Iran issue that is not reported on the news.

lots of Iranian propaganda that is being consumed by American social media. 'Nom "nom
Deeds Not Words

drck1000

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2020, 09:08:11 PM »
lots of Iranian propaganda that is being consumed by American social media. 'Nom "nom
Rose McGowan :facepalm:

Kuleana

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2020, 09:48:54 PM »
I majored in business administration. I just see competition among the world powers. I don't perceive America as an Empire. Did you go to UH too?

When I say America is an empire, I justify that position primarily on the relative economic and military strength as well as geopolitical projection of the US and its closest peers.  Looking back in history, Persia, Rome, the Mongols, the many dynasties of ancient China, Great Britain, etc. all ranked high on these metrics relative to the other nations during their time period.

As it stands, no other country today can match the US based on these metrics.  Russia might come close militarily, but it does not have the economy.  China has a rising economy, but its military is at least another 20+ years or so away from rivaling that of the America.  There is no other nation that can geopolitically project power via things like foreign military bases (garrisons) and pro-American led foreign nations (vassal states) like the US, as of 2020.

BTW, I did my undergraduate at UHM and graduate school in the continental US.

Kuleana

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2020, 09:49:54 PM »
Kuleana - It seems (just my opinion) that you look at many things through a pretty fine lens. As an economist one some issues, as a historian on some issues, proud Hawaiian, plus others. Don’t want to presume to know your whole background. But you seem to be quick to discount what others don’t understand. Just consider the possibility that there are other lenses to view the world that others may value and have some insight. Also consider that’s there’s a lot of information on the Iran issue that is not reported on the news.


Point Taken.   :shaka:

Kuleana

Re: What if Soleimani wasn't killed...
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2020, 09:32:27 AM »
It has been a few days now and the so-called imminent threat excuse to partake in the assassinations of not just Soleimani but other Iranian military leaders, as it is currently now being reported, is definitely in doubt.  It appears the US made their decisions based on hasty generalizations rather than specific evidence, as evident in Secretary Pompeo's interview of this action.


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/10/pompeo-spars-with-reporters-over-imminent-soleimani-threat-097175


Aside from the tragic downed airliner in Iran, things have slowed down a bit, which is a good thing.  However, the killing of foreign nationals based on questionable overgeneralized information is dangerous and has set tragic precedents that the US may regret later.