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Time for the US to Leave Iraq (Read 11458 times)

Kuleana

Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« on: January 08, 2020, 04:22:00 PM »
Finally, a true patriotic American that sees the imperial errors and stupidity of the past and bravely advocates what needs to be done.      :thumbsup:

Tucker Carlson as well as the sound advice Trump shared back in 2007 are both the MAN!!!       :geekdanc:



God Bless America!     
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2020, 05:24:09 PM »
Confirmation bias

is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that affirms one's prior beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning.

People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way.

The effect is stronger for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply-entrenched beliefs.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 06:43:22 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on January 08, 2020, 05:24:09 PM
Confirmation bias

is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that affirms one's prior beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning.

People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way.

The effect is stronger for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply-entrenched beliefs.

If this is your response to my post, why did you not share your thoughts on the notions of what Tucker Carlson as well as what Trump said back in 2007?

The arguments put forth by both of them made sense to me.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2020, 06:49:36 PM »
Quote from: Kuleana on January 08, 2020, 06:43:22 PM
If this is your response to my post, why did you not share your thoughts on the notions of what Tucker Carlson as well as what Trump said back in 2007?

The arguments put forth by both of them made sense to me.

Tucker is an opinion show host on FOX News.  I have no arguments with well though out and factually supported commentary.  His shows are usually thought provoking and extremely well researched.

Unlike other networks, FOX emphasizes which of their shows are opinion, and which are news.  It's why FOX has topped all the other "news" organizations for the past 4 years.

Trump wasn't President in 2007.  Every presidential candidate makes comments about foreign policy positions that change once they are provided access to the current INTEL.  I'd bet even you would change some of your positions if you had access to the info our gov't can't share with the public.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2020, 06:57:55 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on January 08, 2020, 06:49:36 PM
Tucker is an opinion show host on FOX News.  I have no arguments with well though out and factually supported commentary.  His shows are usually thought provoking and extremely well researched.

Unlike other networks, FOX emphasizes which of their shows are opinion, and which are news.  It's why FOX has topped all the other "news" organizations for the past 4 years.

Trump wasn't President in 2007.  Every presidential candidate makes comments about foreign policy positions that change once they are provided access to the current INTEL.  I'd bet even you would change some of your positions if you had access to the info our gov't can't share with the public.

Wonderful!

So you agree with his position of the stupidity of the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, the insanity of marching to war with Iran, and the need to withdraw America's military forces out of Iraq.

I guess there is hope for you yet.      :love:
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2020, 07:08:29 PM »
Quote from: Kuleana on January 08, 2020, 06:57:55 PM
Wonderful!

So you agree with his position of the stupidity of the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, the insanity of marching to war with Iran, and the need to withdraw America's military forces out of Iraq.

I guess there is hope for you yet.      :love:

The US did not invade Iraq.  Operation Iraqi Freedom was a US-led coalition of MANY nations and the UN.  Try to get your facts straight, and maybe you'll see how your talking points and US-demeaning comments are about as inaccurate as they can be.



Nobody is "marching to war" with Iran.  Our embassy was attacked, we knew who was to blame, and that man is now a greasy streak inside what used to be a motor vehicle.

Was the Iraq War stupid?  About as stupid as any war has been.  Was there justification to go?  A coalition of so many nations' leaders surely must have agreed there was.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2020, 07:19:22 PM »
Hypothetically, would you give Trump praise if this entire episode leads to a real withdrawal of US troops in the Middle East?

The UN is already pulling out their Iraqi Training personnel.  Perhaps this has broken the logjam toward having our troops leaving and the locals taking over their own security against the Taliban and ISIS.

Trump merely SAID he was withdrawing from Syria, and the anti-Trumpers, in particular every Democrat in Congress, lost their freaking minds. 

Imagine if he gave you what you wanted -- a complete withdrawal of US forces in that region.  The backlash he'd be subjected to would be no less than the demonization he faced this week.  He's already being impeached for slow-rolling aid to Ukraine.   :wtf:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2020, 07:23:59 PM »
I agree.


with Sam Kinison. Move to where there is food, stability and peace.
I hope that this admin fulfills the legacy of the past to shift awareness to the Pacific. Hawaii is nice, peaceful and there is the good type of sand - on beaches!
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Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2020, 08:42:32 PM »
"Hypothetically, would you give Trump praise if this entire episode leads to a real withdrawal of US troops in the Middle East?"

Absolutely!

If he finds it in his wisdom to realize true stability in the region requires the absence of the US military, I would argue he has earned the Nobel Peace Prize, unlike Obama.



Trump merely SAID he was withdrawing from Syria, and the anti-Trumpers, in particular every Democrat in Congress, lost their freaking minds. 

Imagine if he gave you what you wanted -- a complete withdrawal of US forces in that region.  The backlash he'd be subjected to would be no less than the demonization he faced this week.  He's already being impeached for slow-rolling aid to Ukraine.]

Although he is gullible and susceptible enough to be flattered to making decisions contrary to his own better judgement, to Trump's credit, he is not a true Neocon or imperialist, but a businessman who only seeks the best business deals for the US.  Unfortunately, he is surrounded by the "Deep State", Neocons, imperialist, etc., who, as late Senator McCain used to sing, "Bomb, bomb, bomb; bomb, bomb Iran,", which makes it harder for him to MAGA by returning America to the republic it once was and not the empire that it is in denial.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 09:52:34 PM by Kuleana »
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2020, 09:53:07 PM »
That may be the most non-anti-Trump comment I've seen you make.  You should probably watch this video.  It surmises this back and forth between us and Iran may be the catalyst that "accidentally" ends our presence in Iraq.

Trump Just Accidentally Ended The Iraq War, Iraq Votes For Us Military To LEAVE



 :geekdanc:


In other news:

Reports I've seen tonight say that 176 souls were lost when a Ukrainian 737-800 fell from the sky just minutes after take-off fromTehran’s Imam Ayatollah Khomeini International Airport on Wednesday morning.

No distress call.

Witnesses and reports of video footage describe the plane plummeting in a fireball before exploding on impact.

All Iranian airports were on high alert hours after they launched a missile attack into Iraq.  Iran anticipated a retaliatory response, including drone strikes, from the US military.

Ukraine is sending investigators to Iran after they initially said it was engine failure.  Well, duh!  A missile can do that!   :wacko:

Iran news initially said the crash was from a "malfunction", but they have no evidence anything malfunctioned other than the crash itself.

Early reports in Iran said it was shot out of the sky by mistake. I'm sure that media mess will be cleaned up quicker than the crash site.

I'm wondering if this incident wasn't a factor in Iran backing down.  If they continued to escalate hostilities, the dead passengers' home countries could see the "mistake" as an act of aggression (aka war) against their countries as well.

Quote
Iran is facing mounting pressure to explain the destruction of a civilian airliner near Tehran
hours after Iranian forces launched missile strikes against US forces.

Three Britons were among 176 people killed when an Ukrainian International Airlines Boeing
737 plunged into a nosedive and exploded shortly after take-off from Tehran’s Imam Ayatollah
Khomeini International Airport on Wednesday morning.

Iran dismissed speculation that the aircraft had been downed by a missile but said it would not
hand over the black boxes from the aircraft to Boeing, in an unusual move likely prompted by
high tensions with the United States.

Earlier Ukraine withdrew an initial statement attributing the crash to engine failure and ruling out
a terror attack, sparking an international scramble to investigate the crash.

The crash came three and a half hours after Iran fired a barrage of ballistic missiles at US bases
in Iraq in what it said was revenge for the assassination of general Qassim Soleimani.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/08/iran-plane-crash-170-passengers-feared-dead-ukraine-boeing-737/
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2020, 10:03:47 PM »
"That may be the most non-anti-Trump comment I've seen you make."

What ever made you think I never liked Trump?

I never identified as a Democrat and watched till midnight to make sure Trump DEFEATED Hillary back in 2016.

Trump is far the perfect President for the US, but he is way better than the career politicians that make-up the SWAMP.

Is it hard to fathom that someone who is anti-imperialism, anti-aggressive war, and anti-police brutality to actually like Trump?
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2020, 12:15:22 AM »
Quote from: Kuleana on January 08, 2020, 10:03:47 PM
"That may be the most non-anti-Trump comment I've seen you make."

What ever made you think I never liked Trump?

I never identified as a Democrat and watched till midnight to make sure Trump DEFEATED Hillary back in 2016.

Trump is far the perfect President for the US, but he is way better than the career politicians that make-up the SWAMP.

Is it hard to fathom that someone who is anti-imperialism, anti-aggressive war, and anti-police brutality to actually like Trump?


Based on your #distressed posts, it gave me the impression you want nothing to do with any US president.  I've seen your comments about Trump increasing military spending (in the case of Iran, that turns out to be a good thing -- Peace through Strength), his failure to reduce the debt, and how you don't expect that that'll change in the 2nd term.

I'll admit, you are more general in most of your criticisms.  It's often difficult to parse whether someone is focusing on specific people when they criticize or demonize a group, or if they are generalizing with nobody in particular in mind.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Inspector

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2020, 05:59:53 AM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on January 08, 2020, 06:49:36 PM
Tucker is an opinion show host on FOX News.  I have no arguments with well though out and factually supported commentary.  His shows are usually thought provoking and extremely well researched.

Unlike other networks, FOX emphasizes which of their shows are opinion, and which are news.  It's why FOX has topped all the other "news" organizations for the past 4 years.

Trump wasn't President in 2007.  Every presidential candidate makes comments about foreign policy positions that change once they are provided access to the current INTEL.  I'd bet even you would change some of your positions if you had access to the info our gov't can't share with the public.
Well said.

I believe that there is intelligence that we are not privy to that Trump is relying on to make his decisions regarding Iraq. I am sure, he would like to pull all of our troops out of Iraq as much as I would like him to. It would be ignorant to pull out of Iraq if there is a good reason for us to stay. Especially if it provides security to us and our allies in the Middle East. I believe our presence in Iraq provides us with certain intelligence gathering abilities that we won’t have if we are not there. So while I would prefer to see us leave, I understand that the benefits of our staying currently outweigh our desire to leave if this is the case.

Unfortunately, I also believe if we leave Iraq it will create a vacuum that will be filled by Iran. Even tho Iraq is fully run by their own government, and we are helping them with their security, I believe that Iran will eventually have their way with Iraq. And Iraq will eventually become a part of Iran’s empire building scheme. Us being in Iraq prevents that from occurring. This is why it is more important to try and change Iran’s behavior.
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SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Kuleana

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2020, 07:29:48 AM »
"Based on your #distressed posts, it gave me the impression you want nothing to do with any US president.  I've seen your comments about Trump increasing military spending (in the case of Iran, that turns out to be a good thing -- Peace through Strength), his failure to reduce the debt, and how you don't expect that that'll change in the 2nd term.

I'll admit, you are more general in most of your criticisms.  It's often difficult to parse whether someone is focusing on specific people when they criticize or demonize a group, or if they are generalizing with nobody in particular in mind."


I would rather have Trump than any other person, Republican or Democrat for that matter, in the White House for 2020.

However, as consistently seen in any of my posts, policies that lead or if actions taken that hint of more imperialism-like military operations/coups/overthrows/color revolutions, increasing the debt, or movements to more of a police state; I relentlessly attack.
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drck1000

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2020, 08:22:02 AM »
Was the moon blue last night?   ???

Was listening to NPR this morning and Inskeep was interviewing Iran's ambassador to the UN (who is in NY this week).  Inskeep was actually asking very pointed questions to the ambassador and in many ways was defending the recent actions taken by the US. 

Yesterday, Rachel Martin was on with Bernie Sanders and she was challenging him with many pointed questions and went after him after repeated non-responses. 

What is this world coming to?  I mean I can get Rachel Martin and Sanders as I assume he's still viewed as the "not preferred".  But Inskeep almost always trashes Trump in any context, but he didn't seem to do that in the segment with the Iranian ambassador.  At least IMO. 
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Inspector

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2020, 10:54:15 AM »
Quote from: drck1000 on January 09, 2020, 08:22:02 AM
Was the moon blue last night?   ???

Was listening to NPR this morning and Inskeep was interviewing Iran's ambassador to the UN (who is in NY this week).  Inskeep was actually asking very pointed questions to the ambassador and in many ways was defending the recent actions taken by the US. 

Yesterday, Rachel Martin was on with Bernie Sanders and she was challenging him with many pointed questions and went after him after repeated non-responses. 

What is this world coming to?  I mean I can get Rachel Martin and Sanders as I assume he's still viewed as the "not preferred".  But Inskeep almost always trashes Trump in any context, but he didn't seem to do that in the segment with the Iranian ambassador.  At least IMO.
I think the Dems generally approve of the killing of the Iranian General. They just didn't want Trump to get the credit. Hence one of the MSM news men, right after the incident occurred said something to the effect of right action, wrong leader.  :wtf:  What I say is look for who IS NOT denouncing the drone strike? The likes of China, Russia, other Mid East countries.....

So, I think generally speaking that some in the media believe it was the right thing to do. They just hate that Trump did it and it garnered the desired result. Then after that he showed a great deal of restraint in deescalating the situation when no Americans were killed. Personally, I am gaining more and more confidence in Trump as time goes on. This is just a personal opinion but I think he bumbled his way thru a bunch of stuff early on but in the long run it has turned out very good for our country. And he is now acting a little more diplomatic but still giving it to the Dems every chance he gets.  :rofl:
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SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

drck1000

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2020, 12:24:34 PM »
Quote from: Inspector on January 09, 2020, 10:54:15 AM
1) I think the Dems generally approve of the killing of the Iranian General. They just didn't want Trump to get the credit. Hence one of the MSM news men, right after the incident occurred said something to the effect of right action, wrong leader.  :wtf:  What I say is look for who IS NOT denouncing the drone strike? The likes of China, Russia, other Mid East countries.....

So, I think generally speaking that some in the media believe it was the right thing to do. They just hate that Trump did it and it garnered the desired result. Then after that he showed a great deal of restraint in deescalating the situation when no Americans were killed. Personally, I am gaining more and more confidence in Trump as time goes on. 2) This is just a personal opinion but I think he bumbled his way thru a bunch of stuff early on but in the long run it has turned out very good for our country. And he is now acting a little more diplomatic but still giving it to the Dems every chance he gets.  :rofl:
1) Agree.  Was still shocked that Inskeep, who is usually a rabid TDS'er was actually defending Trump in many regards. 

2) Mostly agree.  Still a number of "time will tell" things, but overall I do believe there was method to much of his madness.  They were talking about now Trump's stances on foreign policy keeps adversaries off balance, but also our allies.  Well, who's to say that some allies don't have additional information.  Much of what the MSM goes off of is Trumps public statements.  Come on man. . . Overall, I believe he is good for America and is has done quite a bit to at least calm much of the damage that Obama did in office.  Of course my opinion, but I can't fathom why folks viewed Obama as such a great President.  Because he was articulate? 
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Kuleana

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2020, 12:33:18 PM »
Quote from: Inspector on January 09, 2020, 05:59:53 AM
Unfortunately, I also believe if we leave Iraq it will create a vacuum that will be filled by Iran. Even tho Iraq is fully run by their own government, and we are helping them with their security, I believe that Iran will eventually have their way with Iraq. And Iraq will eventually become a part of Iran’s empire building scheme. Us being in Iraq prevents that from occurring. This is why it is more important to try and change Iran’s behavior.

I agree with your view, but would like to add a few things.

If Americans believe and defend the right to self-determination, the decision of whether Iraq wishes to become close allies to Iran is their private business.  Since Shia Muslims do make the majority of the population of Iraq anyway, any attempts to prevent the people of Iraq from choosing which country to be close with will be doomed to failure, which explains why the US has never won the hearts and minds of Iraqis since the Iraq War of 2003.

Moreover, short of deporting or killings all Shia Muslims in Iran, it is impossible to change Iran's behavior.  Iran will do what is in its best interests that is no different for any other nation.  If it is impossible to reason with those Americans who wish or has no problem confiscating privately owned firearms in America, changing the behavior of a nation like Iran to submit to the will of the US is equally impossible.
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mrgaf

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2020, 12:37:10 PM »
Here we go again.... I recommend Prozac...  :D
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Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

Kuleana

Re: Time for the US to Leave Iraq
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2020, 12:51:01 PM »
Quote from: drck1000 on January 09, 2020, 08:22:02 AM
Was listening to NPR this morning and Inskeep was interviewing Iran's ambassador to the UN (who is in NY this week).  Inskeep was actually asking very pointed questions to the ambassador and in many ways was defending the recent actions taken by the US. 

The mainstream media should never be trusted in any reports that discusses potential war with any country America's war hawks deems to be an enemy.  In the runup to the War in Iraq in 2003 under Bush, the invasion of Libya and Syria under the Obama, and the potential war with Iran today, has any of the mainstream media SERIOUSLY made an any effort to critically analyze both sides of the issue and/or try to give any pause to such madness?

Many people in the US and the international community did speak out against all of the previous military actions by the US citing the costs and de-stability it would cause.  Unfortunately, those who were against were right in the end and the imperialist were wrong.

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