Shooting diamond head (Read 5684 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2020, 10:12:15 PM »
How do you come to that conclusion?
How many active shooters were on meds?

Why has none of that info been a priority, but taking guns away is?

Why is almost no news outlet telling the public this info?

Who gains from burying the above info?

Find the anwers to the above, and there are the conclusions.

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changemyoil66

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2020, 10:13:11 PM »
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/01/24/wake-diamond-head-tragedy-police-chief-seeks-tighten-loopholes-gun-laws/

In the wake of the deadly rampage in Diamond Head, Honolulu’s police chief says she wants to tighten loopholes in Hawaii’s already tough gun laws.

Police Chief Susan Ballard said Thursday that police found multiple firearms at the Hibiscus Drive property where 69-year-old suspect Jerry Hanel is accused of killing his landlord and fatally shooting two Honolulu police officers before setting a fire that destroyed five homes in the affluent community.

Hanel is also presumed dead.

The guns were all badly damaged in the scorching blaze.

Speaking to Hawaii News Now, Ballard said none of the guns found at the property were registered to the suspect, his landlord ― Lois Cain ― or her husband, who died in 2005.

“This is the time we need to do something.”

Rhodes denied the bill to remove penalties for late firearm registration. Could that have helped, we will never know.

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eyeeatingfish

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2020, 10:20:06 PM »
How many active shooters were on meds?

Lots, but the relevant question is are the meds the cause or the symptom.


Quote
Why has none of that info been a priority, but taking guns away is?
Why is almost no news outlet telling the public this info?
Who gains from burying the above info?
Find the anwers to the above, and there are the conclusions.

This is not to say drug companies are blameless or that drugs never cause any more harm than the issue they are trying to prevent but we can't simple look at the correlation of these meds and their actions and conclude a cause.

changemyoil66

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2020, 09:16:25 AM »
Lots, but the relevant question is are the meds the cause or the symptom.


This is not to say drug companies are blameless or that drugs never cause any more harm than the issue they are trying to prevent but we can't simple look at the correlation of these meds and their actions and conclude a cause.

And this is why big pharma is still not held accountable. I know a guy who was taking meds for depression.  Even though he was given the long list of possible side affects, his doctor still prescribed them.  After a few weeks, he felt suicidal and not right in the head.  Luckily, he's  a smart man and realized it wasn't him, but the meds.  So he stopped them and all went back to his non suicidal/ voices in the head state.

How many active shooters had mental problems, but not on meds? 

eyeeatingfish

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2020, 04:46:21 PM »
And this is why big pharma is still not held accountable. I know a guy who was taking meds for depression.  Even though he was given the long list of possible side affects, his doctor still prescribed them.  After a few weeks, he felt suicidal and not right in the head.  Luckily, he's  a smart man and realized it wasn't him, but the meds.  So he stopped them and all went back to his non suicidal/ voices in the head state.

I wouldn't say they are not held accountable. They have spent billions in payouts for all sorts of issues stemming from drugs and products they came up with, they are facing a lot of lawsuits over pain medications right now. Drugs are an imprecise science and doctors and scientists can never fully predict how a drug will work on everyone. Some drugs work one way on a person but have the opposite effect on another person. Sometimes the drug companies are negligent or even reckless but we can't simply blame mental health drugs, I don't think the data would support that sole conclusion. To explore the question more we could try to see what drugs are used how in what countries and try to compare similar types of violence to eliminate social and cultural factors.


Quote
How many active shooters had mental problems, but not on meds?

This isn't conclusive of anything though. All that could mean is we are better at diagnosing problems and treating them. Could be a bit of both as well. How many people who have headaches are taking Tylenol?

2ahavvaii

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #85 on: January 28, 2020, 06:44:56 PM »
Where did the officers get shot?  Neck or head?  it was supposed to be above protection of the ballistic vest.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #86 on: January 28, 2020, 06:57:19 PM »
Where did the officers get shot?  Neck or head?  it was supposed to be above protection of the ballistic vest.

I haven't seen that released yet but most rifles will penetrate most soft body armor so if the guy used a rifle it might not have mattered.

zippz

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #87 on: January 28, 2020, 07:04:38 PM »
Where did the officers get shot?  Neck or head?  it was supposed to be above protection of the ballistic vest.

It sounded like a rapid firing rifle in the video which makes sense as the shooter was probably inexperienced so wouldn't be a handgun.  Also police vests are only rated up to a mild 357 load so vest wouldn't have made any difference against a rifle.
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changemyoil66

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #88 on: January 28, 2020, 07:43:59 PM »
Bolt action, big game rounds

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #89 on: January 28, 2020, 07:45:45 PM »
Where did the officers get shot?  Neck or head?  it was supposed to be above protection of the ballistic vest.

In the news conference I saw, the police chief said the officers were hit above the protective area of their vests.  She wasn't any more specific as to the wound locations.

The first officer fatally wounded was one of two officers ambushed walking down the drive.  The second was when the killer was shooting into a group of officers that responded as backup.  Sounds like both kills were lucky shots while just firing at the groups.

If he were as skilled as some have commented, I think there would have been more fatalities.

JMHO.
Liberal:  Someone who is passionately concerned with issues about which they know absolutely nothing.

macsak

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #90 on: January 28, 2020, 08:05:46 PM »
Bolt action, big game rounds

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did your "intel" give you this?

ren

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #91 on: January 28, 2020, 08:11:22 PM »
Bolt action, big game rounds

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so a magazine ban would not have any effect on this crime

eyeeatingfish

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #92 on: January 28, 2020, 09:22:38 PM »
so a magazine ban would not have any effect on this crime

Hard to say. Maybe he could have gotten more rounds off and killed more people but who knows.

changemyoil66

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #93 on: January 29, 2020, 12:03:20 AM »
Hard to say. Maybe he could have gotten more rounds off and killed more people but who knows.
He could been using a belt fed rifle as well. There is nothing that disproves this either. Since ballistics were not made public yet nor were any mags, clips, links found due to the fire.

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eyeeatingfish

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #94 on: January 29, 2020, 07:56:26 PM »
He could been using a belt fed rifle as well. There is nothing that disproves this either. Since ballistics were not made public yet nor were any mags, clips, links found due to the fire.

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I think you may have just pointed out a loophole hehe. They want to ban high capacity magazines.... but they didn't say high capacity belted ammo...  >:D

2ahavvaii

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #95 on: January 30, 2020, 05:44:34 AM »
In the news conference I saw, the police chief said the officers were hit above the protective area of their vests.  She wasn't any more specific as to the wound locations.

The first officer fatally wounded was one of two officers ambushed walking down the drive.  The second was when the killer was shooting into a group of officers that responded as backup.  Sounds like both kills were lucky shots while just firing at the groups.

If he were as skilled as some have commented, I think there would have been more fatalities.

JMHO.

Thanks, that's what I read as well, so was wondering what they considered above the protective area.  The first officer being ambushed was perhaps less avoidable, but the backup being killed perhaps could have been prevented with better procedure since there was already 1 officer down and a known armed perp. hindsight 20/20 of course though.

bass monkey

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2020, 08:08:39 AM »
I'm surprised the media isn't talking about this 24/7
If it was a mass shooting they would be screaming assault weapon and we would have a timeline of events. 
I also personally never realized how big the fire was and how quickly it got that large. 

From what I've heard,  the female officer was shot first,  and the guy,  went in to rescue her, leave no officer behind. 
Only heard it once though

2ahavvaii

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2020, 08:03:29 PM »
I'm surprised the media isn't talking about this 24/7
If it was a mass shooting they would be screaming assault weapon and we would have a timeline of events. 
I also personally never realized how big the fire was and how quickly it got that large. 

From what I've heard,  the female officer was shot first,  and the guy,  went in to rescue her, leave no officer behind. 
Only heard it once though

residential fires will quickly get out of control if the fire department doesn't show up to fight it. In this case, because the situation was dangerous, they were not allowed to fight it and instead let the homes burn.

changemyoil66

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2020, 09:39:33 PM »
I'm surprised the media isn't talking about this 24/7
If it was a mass shooting they would be screaming assault weapon and we would have a timeline of events. 
I also personally never realized how big the fire was and how quickly it got that large. 

From what I've heard,  the female officer was shot first,  and the guy,  went in to rescue her, leave no officer behind. 
Only heard it once though
Because a semi auto rifle probably wasn't used. Still no ballistic reports either or body cam.

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Mdotweber

Re: Shooting diamond head
« Reply #99 on: January 30, 2020, 09:49:45 PM »
Shotgun with buckshot
"Dont forget, incoming fire has the right of way"-Clint Smith?