Time to Scale Back US Military Spending (Read 1477 times)

hvybarrels

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Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2020, 10:48:59 PM »
Word on the street is that the fun guys in the middle east are already drumming that the US is responsible for the virus outbreak, due to the propaganda being spun out of communist China.  Keep in mind their subjects do not have free access to information like most of us do.


I fully expect a terrorist incident occurring shortly, either in the United States or in Israel.

They already have enough reason to carry out such campaigns without the virus conspiracy, but it does throw another log on the fire. With our trade agreements in tatters the American vs Chinese mad scramble for influence over oil producing countries will continue with much less diplomacy than before. We could be looking at a hot war with China in the not too distant future. A lot depends on how badly this virus ravages Africa.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2020, 10:49:29 PM »
Spoken like a true war junkie.

Instead of bailing out the ULTRA-RICH on Wall Street and feeding the military industrial complex, how about providing financial assistance to SMALL BUSINESSES and the WORKING CLASS of US Main Street, instead?

Nah, what was I thinking?

We should all believe like you in funding our soldiers wherever they are, which is MUCH BETTER than preventing COVID-19 deaths and helping the starving and soon homeless working class here in America.

That is EXACTLY what Trump and Senate Republicans did this week -- well, at least tried to do before the Democrats stopped the bill -- TWICE.

You need to reevaluate which groups you are accusing of being for or against the working class and small business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_CxhOwdnU0&t=183s
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 10:55:00 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
Liberal:  Someone who is passionately concerned with issues about which they know absolutely nothing.

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2020, 10:54:44 PM »
That is EXACTLY what Trump and Senate Republicans did this week -- well, at least tried to do before the Democrats stopped the bill -- TWICE.

You need to reevaluate which groups you are accusing of being for or against the working class and small business.

Don't be coy and throw me into the bucket of Democratic Party slime.

Your sneaky support of anything military over the needs of the citizens of this country will be the reason why the current crisis won't end quickly.

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2020, 11:01:35 PM »
They already have enough reason to carry out such campaigns without the virus conspiracy, but it does throw another log on the fire. With our trade agreements in tatters the American vs Chinese mad scramble for influence over oil producing countries will continue with much less diplomacy than before. We could be looking at a hot war with China in the not too distant future. A lot depends on how badly this virus ravages Africa.

Very possible HB, but with a global economic depression very much a possibility, no country will be able to conduct a war with each other.

Nuclear weapons notwithstanding, the resulting economic hardships due to such a war will result in the end of all of life's simplicities and bring forth widespread chaos in the streets through which the Rule of Law would cease to exist.  There is no way any country could persecute such a war under those conditions for any long period of time.

groveler

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2020, 08:26:43 AM »
I missed this Thread yesterday.
Interesting comments.
I'll say this I defended your butt once,
don't expect me to do it again.
BTW
NEX, BX, and PX are self supporting
and I shop there just to cheat you Hawaiian Democrats
out of your GET.


hvybarrels

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Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2020, 09:31:20 AM »
I missed this Thread yesterday.
Interesting comments.
I'll say this I defended your butt once,
don't expect me to do it again.
BTW
NEX, BX, and PX are self supporting
and I shop there just to cheat you Hawaiian Democrats
out of your GET.

It would be nice if businesses below a certain size were exempt too. The small business atmosphere here is very hostile.

Mdotweber

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2020, 10:22:11 AM »
"Dont forget, incoming fire has the right of way"-Clint Smith?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2020, 10:43:42 AM »
I missed this Thread yesterday.
Interesting comments.
I'll say this I defended your butt once,
don't expect me to do it again.
BTW
NEX, BX, and PX are self supporting
and I shop there just to cheat you Hawaiian Democrats
out of your GET.

To be accurate, the commissary/exchange system is a mixed bag re: self support.

In the US, that's almost true.  With economies of scale, the system buys in massive quantities at equally massive discounts. Some of the costs of operations are paid in the form of "surcharges" added to the purchases -- basically a "tax" substitute.

Where we start losing money is where costs exceed revenue (duh  :crazy:). in cities where family housing is inadequate on-base, military families/individuals live out on the local economy.  Local civilian stores are often more convenient or offer better variety.  Sometimes price is not the deciding factor when the on-base selections can't compete with online or local businesses.

The biggest issue is the overseas situation.  Cost of stocking those shelves are much higher.  Even though the military/families living there are more likely to shop on-base rather than the local stores, the prices are often higher then in the US exchanges.  It's cheaper to order from Amazon nowadays.  The exchanges are now offering online ordering, but that doesn't offer cheaper prices if Amazon isn't collecting tax at most destination locations.

As far as WHY the military has these facilities, those reasons have changed -- at least as far as US facilities.  In the past, almost every military member and family lived on-base for security and job purposes.  Off-base access was restricted to avoid potential problems between locals and the military.  The attitudes of many civilians toward the military were much like Kukeana's -- total hatred and disdain.   I'm talking decades ago -- post-Vietnam era.  In order to avoid confrontations, the bases pretty much issued passes one a month on a weekend to let the troops decompress.  The rest of the time, they were confined to base.

Now, there is an increasing tendency for military personnel to live off-base in private housing.  Much of the Oahu military housing is built "off-base", and members have to drive to the bases they work at.  Basically, military housing in integrated with the local civilian population.  That includes shopping, schools, restaurants, auto repair, and every other business you can name.

Anyway, there have been studies by the DoD on making the BX/PX/Commissary systems self-supporting, and the conclusion was that the system would have to be 100% scrapped if that happens.  From a purely pragmatic perspective in today's Amazon-driven consumer market, maybe it's time?
Liberal:  Someone who is passionately concerned with issues about which they know absolutely nothing.

mrgaf

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2020, 11:34:31 AM »
They already have enough reason to carry out such campaigns without the virus conspiracy, but it does throw another log on the fire. With our trade agreements in tatters the American vs Chinese mad scramble for influence over oil producing countries will continue with much less diplomacy than before. We could be looking at a hot war with China in the not too distant future. A lot depends on how badly this virus ravages Africa.

But as previously mentioned the military needs to be scaled back etc etc while China’s military is getting larger by the day! Can’t have it both ways, rite? Wait everything will be fine according to “Professor Kuleana” maybe aka Brandon...... :worship:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2020, 11:58:55 AM »
But as previously mentioned the military needs to be scaled back etc etc while China’s military is getting larger by the day! Can’t have it both ways, rite? Wait everything will be fine according to “Professor Kuleana” maybe aka Brandon...... :worship:

Why are you fear mongering at a time of Pandemic crisis?

The US military outspends both Russia and China combined by a HUGE MARGIN.  Are you a mindless follower of the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned everybody about?

If anything, the runaway spending of the military really EXPOSED how domestically vulnerable the US really is.  Not enough masks and hospitable beds, insufficient emergency medical funds to combat COVID-19 directly, etc.

Furthermore, this pandemic has just shown poorer countries the strategy to overcome America's military superiority.  No need for Ebola, just ENGINEER and deliver a super-flu on the financial centers of this country, BLAME China for it, and SIT-BACK and laugh at the chaos and rule without law that will destroy the US from within.

groveler

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2020, 12:10:44 PM »
To be accurate, the commissary/exchange system is a mixed bag re: self support.

In the US, that's almost true.  With economies of scale, the system buys in massive quantities at equally massive discounts. Some of the costs of operations are paid in the form of "surcharges" added to the purchases -- basically a "tax" substitute.

Where we start losing money is where costs exceed revenue (duh  :crazy:). in cities where family housing is inadequate on-base, military families/individuals live out on the local economy.  Local civilian stores are often more convenient or offer better variety.  Sometimes price is not the deciding factor when the on-base selections can't compete with online or local businesses.

The biggest issue is the overseas situation.  Cost of stocking those shelves are much higher.  Even though the military/families living there are more likely to shop on-base rather than the local stores, the prices are often higher then in the US exchanges.  It's cheaper to order from Amazon nowadays.  The exchanges are now offering online ordering, but that doesn't offer cheaper prices if Amazon isn't collecting tax at most destination locations.

As far as WHY the military has these facilities, those reasons have changed -- at least as far as US facilities.  In the past, almost every military member and family lived on-base for security and job purposes.  Off-base access was restricted to avoid potential problems between locals and the military.  The attitudes of many civilians toward the military were much like Kukeana's -- total hatred and disdain.   I'm talking decades ago -- post-Vietnam era.  In order to avoid confrontations, the bases pretty much issued passes one a month on a weekend to let the troops decompress.  The rest of the time, they were confined to base.

Now, there is an increasing tendency for military personnel to live off-base in private housing.  Much of the Oahu military housing is built "off-base", and members have to drive to the  bases they work at.  Basically, military housing in integrated with the local civilian population.  That includes shopping, schools, restaurants, auto repair, and every other business you can name.

Anyway, there have been studies by the DoD on making the BX/PX/Commissary systems self-supporting, and the conclusion was that the system would have to be 100% scrapped if that happens.  From a purely pragmatic perspective in today's Amazon-driven consumer market, maybe it's time?
Thanks for your insights.
In my last duty location there was insufficent base housing so I lived off base.
We were encouraged to appy for welfare, as housing allowance did not cover
full cost of rents in that area.
The Commissary was far cheaper than the local Safeway.
That was in 1978 I held the rank of E-5 more than 4 years in service.
Today I compare costs as I did then.
Exchange costs are comparable with other on-line services.
For the hell of it I went on Amazon to re-order
some of my previous "Prepper" stuff most every item was
not available.
I suspect Amazon will replenish soon.
My point is Amazon has it's limits as does Walmart, Ebay et al.
but I trust the military supply chain.
I remember servicing C-5 aircraft on Guam that were full of tons of disposable
diapers. Military Exchanges got the first pallets, then the civilian stores.
FedEx and UPS weren't flying there for a few weeks,  place was a mess.
Super Typhoon Pamela 1976.




groveler

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2020, 12:28:55 PM »
Why are you fear mongering at a time of Pandemic crisis?

The US military outspends both Russia and China combined by a HUGE MARGIN.  Are you a mindless follower of the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned everybody about?

If anything, the runaway spending of the military really EXPOSED how domestically vulnerable the US really is.  Not enough masks and hospitable beds, insufficient emergency medical funds to combat COVID-19 directly, etc.

Furthermore, this pandemic has just shown poorer countries the strategy to overcome America's military superiority.  No need for Ebola, just ENGINEER and deliver a super-flu on the financial centers of this country, BLAME China for it, and SIT-BACK and laugh at the chaos and rule without law that will destroy the US from within.
I tend to look at things on a per capita basis when it comes to money
go here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditure_per_capita.

Russia and China aren't even on that list.
You may have a point.

One point you also made and really miss is fear and perception
is far more powerful than facts and data.
The Governor has just virtually destroyed the largest industry in this state.
All for political reasons.
This whole thing is being Driven by Democrats that want to rule America.
I'm not going to submit to that, nor will I submit to a race based government
as you frequently advocate.
Have a good one!

mrgaf

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2020, 11:03:00 AM »
Why are you fear mongering at a time of Pandemic crisis?

The US military outspends both Russia and China combined by a HUGE MARGIN.  Are you a mindless follower of the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned everybody about?

If anything, the runaway spending of the military really EXPOSED how domestically vulnerable the US really is.  Not enough masks and hospitable beds, insufficient emergency medical funds to combat COVID-19 directly, etc.

Furthermore, this pandemic has just shown poorer countries the strategy to overcome America's military superiority.  No need for Ebola, just ENGINEER and deliver a super-flu on the financial centers of this country, BLAME China for it, and SIT-BACK and laugh at the chaos and rule without law that will destroy the US from within.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I should know better than saying anything to you! You accuse others of twisting your words around when you are quite adept at the same game. Responding to anything you say is a waste of my time. My bad. Fix some water pipes and spew your b.s. have a good day, Brandon...
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2020, 11:20:15 AM »
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I should know better than saying anything to you! You accuse others of twisting your words around when you are quite adept at the same game. Responding to anything you say is a waste of my time. My bad. Fix some water pipes and spew your b.s. have a good day, Brandon...

Dealing with individuals who thrive on personal attacks on those who do not go along with support the military first and citizens last herd mentality thinking does that to a free-thinking person.   :shake:

Be healthy; you would not want to task the system now if you get sick, since the money that should have been going to a slush fund to properly address what's currently happening got allocated to the over bloated military budget.   ;)

Brandon?  Who's Brandon?   ???

mrgaf

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2020, 05:25:02 PM »
Dealing with individuals who thrive on personal attacks on those who do not go along with support the military first and citizens last herd mentality thinking does that to a free-thinking person.   :shake:

Be healthy; you would not want to task the system now if you get sick, since the money that should have been going to a slush fund to properly address what's currently happening got allocated to the over bloated military budget.   ;)

Brandon?  Who's Brandon?   ???

 :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :wave:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

hvybarrels

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Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2020, 08:21:37 PM »
You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Just sayinʻ

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2020, 08:30:54 PM »
You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Just sayinʻ

That assumes you have some weird desire to catch flies.

I prefer to kill them.  They're called "pests' for a reason.   :geekdanc: :rofl:
Liberal:  Someone who is passionately concerned with issues about which they know absolutely nothing.

hvybarrels

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Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2020, 10:18:23 PM »
I always assumed the purpose of arguments is to be persuasive, not a public catharsis.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2020, 11:42:39 PM »
I always assumed the purpose of arguments is to be persuasive, not a public catharsis.

That of course assumes the argument is actually an argument. 

It only takes one provable, opposing example to stand a stated conclusion on its

#HEAD.   :geekdanc:
Liberal:  Someone who is passionately concerned with issues about which they know absolutely nothing.

robtmc

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2020, 07:44:50 AM »
I always assumed the purpose of arguments is to be persuasive, not a public catharsis.
There seems to be a personality type that craves argument.

Have run into quite a few online.  One huge tip is always trying for the last word or at least beating things to death. 

Not to be sexist, but the female persuasion is often seen doing this.