Time to Scale Back US Military Spending (Read 19031 times)

groveler

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2020, 02:44:15 PM »
With fears of an impending global depression spoken now by both academic and so-called mainstream economists, it is imperative that the US begin scaling back not only in military spending, but also in its military presence around the globe.

America will need all what remains of its financial resources in not only maintaining the public order and trying to restart economic activity, but EVERY SOLDIER available to PREVENT a domestic communistic revolution as well as PROTECT its southern borders from the hoards of migrants and organized crime syndicates that will rush in-mass to establish a new home in the US.

The domestic situation in the US is headed to what looks like a combination of Russia in 1917 and Germany in the 1920s.
Military cannot be used Domestically.  "Posse Comitatus"
If military were available for Domestic use I doubt
the Democrat Party would exist today.
Lincoln made a mistake by not wiping that party out permanently.
Most military guys aren't Commies or Socialists.
We were trained to accomplish a mission.  Given the skills to do it,
but not always all the tools to get a job done.
The MIC isn't the problem.  Democrats that infest and run the Government are.
That is what Eisenhower warned about but was too good a politician
to say Democrat IC. I guess that would be DICs to use military
acronyms.

groveler

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2020, 02:52:01 PM »
"If you BOTHERED to watch the video, the ships are being deployed to take the overflow of non-CV patients, allowing the ashore hospitals to treat CV patients.  That adds the benefit of keeping uninfected patients apart from the possibly/verified infected."

I am not saying it will not help; I am saying such deployment is TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.

Why did it take so long for this decision?  The US already leads the way in infections and headed to lead the way in deaths.

Once more, why only two ships?

Why not TAKE every available ship in the Seventh Fleet currently making stink-face to the Chinese in the South China Sea and REPURPOSE them similarly to aid infected Americans on the West Coast?



"You hate the military.  You have only negatives to say no matter what they do.  You appear to have a "military variant" of TDS (MDS?)."

I do not hate the military per se; I hate what the US military has become...  An overbudgeted global police force to govern the declining American Empire and intimidate its enemies.

So useless to an American's daily life, except for the war hawks and the military industrial complex, it has accumulated so much tax payer monies for decades, which left no emergency funds to combat the worst medical and economic disasters in recent US history.
"So useless to an American's daily life, except for the war hawks and the military industrial complex, it has accumulated so much tax payer monies for decades, which left no emergency funds to combat the worst medical and economic disasters in recent US history."
How many years did Democrats run this show?  How are we paying now?
Don't blame the military,  blame the guys you voted for, for  your entire life.

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2020, 02:56:08 PM »
"So useless to an American's daily life, except for the war hawks and the military industrial complex, it has accumulated so much tax payer monies for decades, which left no emergency funds to combat the worst medical and economic disasters in recent US history."
How many years did Democrats run this show?  How are we paying now?
Don't blame the military,  blame the guys you voted for, for  your entire life.

I am NO FAN of any Democrat, but would have a Republican led government not allocate insane amounts of tax dollars to the military as well?

groveler

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2020, 03:06:03 PM »
I am NO FAN of any Democrat, but would have a Republican led government not allocate insane amounts of tax dollars to the military as well?
Point taken.  I can't speak for what may have been, but most Federal Military dollars flow to states with Democrat Senators.
Very curious.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2020, 04:16:28 PM »

Why did it take so long for this decision?  The US already leads the way in infections and headed to lead the way in deaths.

Perhaps because the STATE GOVERNORS have to ask for help?  Remember Katrina, when the STATE refused FEMA assistance until things deteriorated and the press wanted someone to blame?  They blamed Bush, even though he had trucks of supplies at the border for days waiting on permission to cross into Louisiana,

The Feds can't force a state to accept assistance.  Nor can any of them peer into a crystal ball and predict the extent of the infection rates.

In case you are wondering WHY NEW YORK is such a hot zone, they are (1) the most densely populated city in the nation, and (2) In Feb and Mar, the local leaders were telling everyone not to worry, to ride the subways and buses, and to attend the upcoming parade. 

But, "Orange man bad"?   :sleeping:



Once more, why only two ships?

Because we only have 2 hospital ships.  Each ship provides 1,000 additional beds as well as medicines, supplies, healthcare workers and the INFRASTRUCTURE to sustain all of that.  Ships require resources to dock and provide power for lighting and equipment.  The workers have to have places to eat, sleep, and shower. 

These two ships are floating cities, capable of sustaining the mission they support.  They are the only two we have in our fleet.

Now, maybe if people would tell their elected officials to INCREASE MILITARY SPENDING, we could have more of these?   :thumbsup: :rofl:


I do not hate the military per se; I hate what the US military has become... 

A distinction without a difference.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2020, 04:26:19 PM »
"Why did it take so long for this decision?  The US already leads the way in infections and headed to lead the way in deaths"

I'm amazed you believe that fake news.  China still leads the world in cases. 

They've been reported to have buried the dead with NO TESTING DONE to identify if they had the virus, many of whom were suspect cases.

They changed their criteria for reporting cases -- only those who show symptoms, even though they tested positive, are included.

When a Socialist country reports on ANYTHING that has the potential to make them look bad, you can bet the books have been cooked.

As for the US having such a high number of cases, look to the high-density populations in NY and CA, where they already have a huge problem with dysentery, typhoid and hepatitis due to the abysmal conditions on their streets caused by their homeless population and lack of government action to take care of the problem.

If a city is breeding diseases already, what makes you think they won't be ground zero in the nation for a pandemic?

Once again, it's a state issue, not a federal one.  Not Trump's job to do the governors' jobs for them.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2020, 06:45:50 PM »
"I'm amazed you believe that fake news.  China still leads the world in cases.  They've been reported to have buried the dead with NO TESTING DONE to identify if they had the virus, many of whom were suspect cases.

They changed their criteria for reporting cases -- only those who show symptoms, even though they tested positive, are included.  When a Socialist country reports on ANYTHING that has the potential to make them look bad, you can bet the books have been cooked."

I did not know you have high level top secret clearance in China as well to be able to make such accusations and conclusions.   :worship:

What you shared is nothing but pure speculation underscored by your evident biased hatred of China.



"As for the US having such a high number of cases, look to the high-density populations in NY and CA, where they already have a huge problem with dysentery, typhoid and hepatitis due to the abysmal conditions on their streets caused by their homeless population and lack of government action to take care of the problem.

Once again, it's a state issue, not a federal one.  Not Trump's job to do the governors' jobs for them."

Though technically one could argue that it is a state issue, it does not hide the fact that the US at the federal level was/is still not prepared to handle this pandemic crisis that can be attributed to the lack of funds that military budget gobbled up.   :grrr:

macsak

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2020, 06:47:23 PM »

I am not saying it will not help; I am saying such deployment is TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.

Why did it take so long for this decision?  The US already leads the way in infections and headed to lead the way in deaths.

Once more, why only two ships?


hey genius, check the date on the story...
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/coronavirus/article241303776.html

and there are only 2 hospital ships to send...

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2020, 06:55:00 PM »
"Nor can any of them peer into a crystal ball and predict the extent of the infection rates."

They can't tell the future, but the federal government CAN ensure emergency funds be hoarded to combat future viral outbreaks by scaling back its outrageously bloated military spending.   ;)



"Now, maybe if people would tell their elected officials to INCREASE MILITARY SPENDING, we could have more of these?"

Or people can tell their elected officials to SPEND LESS on warships and MORE hospital/medical ships for the US Navy and Coast Guard.    :D

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2020, 06:55:43 PM »
"I'm amazed you believe that fake news.  China still leads the world in cases.  They've been reported to have buried the dead with NO TESTING DONE to identify if they had the virus, many of whom were suspect cases.

They changed their criteria for reporting cases -- only those who show symptoms, even though they tested positive, are included.  When a Socialist country reports on ANYTHING that has the potential to make them look bad, you can bet the books have been cooked."

I did not know you have high level top secret clearance in China as well to be able to make such accusations and conclusions.   :worship:

What you shared is nothing but pure speculation underscored by your evident biased hatred of China.



"As for the US having such a high number of cases, look to the high-density populations in NY and CA, where they already have a huge problem with dysentery, typhoid and hepatitis due to the abysmal conditions on their streets caused by their homeless population and lack of government action to take care of the problem.

Once again, it's a state issue, not a federal one.  Not Trump's job to do the governors' jobs for them."

Though technically one could argue that it is a state issue, it does not hide the fact that the US at the federal level was/is still not prepared to handle this pandemic crisis that can be attributed to the lack of funds that military budget gobbled up.   :grrr:

Obama cut the military's funding by 1/3 through sequestration.

Obama also cut the CDC and NHS budgets.

So, the premise that cutting the military budget will guarantee more health care spending for emergencies is false.

BTW, Trump increased BOTH military FEMA and CDC spending.  Do some research.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2020, 06:59:55 PM »
"Nor can any of them peer into a crystal ball and predict the extent of the infection rates."

They can't tell the future, but the federal government CAN ensure emergency funds be hoarded to combat future viral outbreaks by scaling back its outrageously bloated military spending.   ;)



"Now, maybe if people would tell their elected officials to INCREASE MILITARY SPENDING, we could have more of these?"

Or people can tell their elected officials to SPEND LESS on warships and MORE hospital/medical ships for the US Navy and Coast Guard.    :D

The military's primary mission is to make war, not perform humanitarian aid.

If you want more equipment for the latter, then the budget needs to be increased for that, not reduced for the primary mission.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2020, 07:01:02 PM »
hey genius, check the date on the story...
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/coronavirus/article241303776.html

and there are only 2 hospital ships to send...

Hey Dr. Open Mouth, I already knew that when Trump did his speech.

If you read my responses to the resident intelligence informant, I asked that question as a springboard to point out that there are many other ships in the US Navy that could be retrofitted and serve similar functions to help those infected on the West Coast.

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2020, 07:07:16 PM »
"Obama cut the military's funding by 1/3 through sequestration.   Obama also cut the CDC and NHS budgets.  So, the premise that cutting the military budget will guarantee more health care spending for emergencies is false."

No, that does not prove anything.  America's military spending under Obongo still shadowed the military spending by Russia and China combined.  Hence, America was still spending too much on the military.



"BTW, Trump increased BOTH military FEMA and CDC spending.  Do some research."

Well, obviously, Trump did not give enough to the CDC.  Trump should have DECREASED the military spending and GAVE a better Christmas gift to FEMA and the CDC.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2020, 07:08:23 PM »
Hey Dr. Open Mouth, I already knew that when Trump did his speech.

If you read my responses to the resident intelligence informant, I asked that question as a springboard to point out that there are many other ships in the US Navy that could be retrofitted and serve similar functions to help those infected on the West Coast.

"Retrofitter" is not a minor task when the design is for weapons and electronics, not a sterile operating room, 1,000 patient beds, bunks for support and medical personnel, etc.

The Mercy and Comfort were former oil tankers, because they didn't have lots of internal compartments and systems already running throughout.

Naval resources are tight, mainly because the ships and aircraft require massive amounts of time and money to maintain and upgrade them.

These are not cars you buy and take care of for 10 years, then go out and buy a new one.  The Mercy was launched in 1975,  Most of the staff on her are younger than the ship.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2020, 07:09:09 PM »
Hey Dr. Open Mouth, I already knew that when Trump did his speech.

If you read my responses to the resident intelligence informant, I asked that question as a springboard to point out that there are many other ships in the US Navy that could be retrofitted and serve similar functions to help those infected on the West Coast.

that's not what you said, you said "too little, too late" and "why did it take so long"
it took so long because they had to go from where they were to NY and LA
he made the decision long ago and they got there as quickly as they could
so neither of your statements are true
nor did you ever indicate until after the fact that you knew all along that he made the decision 10 days ago
sounds like your statement that you knew all along is "too little, too late"

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2020, 07:12:42 PM »
The military's primary mission is to make war, not perform humanitarian aid.

If you want more equipment for the latter, then the budget needs to be increased for that, not reduced for the primary mission.

That's the point!

With the level the US has been spending on the military, you would think it was at war with a military peer.  However, it has not been at war with a military peer since the 20th century.  Hence, it is FLAT OUT spending money it does not have, while siphoning off financial resources away domestically where it would do much more good, as evident with the current pandemic and economic crises.

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #76 on: March 28, 2020, 07:17:01 PM »
"Retrofitter" is not a minor task when the design is for weapons and electronics, not a sterile operating room, 1,000 patient beds, bunks for support and medical personnel, etc.

The Mercy and Comfort were former oil tankers, because they didn't have lots of internal compartments and systems already running throughout.

Naval resources are tight, mainly because the ships and aircraft require massive amounts of time and money to maintain and upgrade them.

These are not cars you buy and take care of for 10 years, then go out and buy a new one.  The Mercy was launched in 1975,  Most of the staff on her are younger than the ship.

When a nation is in distress, the leader must make do with what he has.  If he has other ships of war that is not currently making war, those resources should be utilized for the GREATER GOOD.   :thumbsup:

If Trump transformed the Seventh Fleet into a medical fleet of mercy for infected Americans on the West Coast, he would GUARANTEE HIS REELECTION for the next two terms!   :geekdanc:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2020, 07:23:11 PM »
That's the point!

With the level the US has been spending on the military, you would think it was at war with a military peer.  However, it has not been at war with a military peer since the 20th century.  Hence, it is FLAT OUT spending money it does not have, while siphoning off financial resources away domestically where it would do much more good, as evident with the current pandemic and economic crises.

When you take funds from the military, the number of personnel, the quality of the equipment, and the ability of the private sector that helps train and equip the military are all diminished. 

When the flag goes up, if you aren't ready to deploy because we cut back on maintenance, training and other vital mission tasks, it takes TIME and EVEN MORE MONEY to restart that "machine." 

Imagine a boxer being in retirement for 10 years, only to be invited to a championship fight in a month against an opponent who's been winning fights the past 4 years..  Good luck getting back into shape and having any chance of winning.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #78 on: March 28, 2020, 07:31:09 PM »
"When you take funds from the military, the number of personnel, the quality of the equipment, and the ability of the private sector that helps train and equip the military are all diminished."

Wait a minute.  Isn't what the military says to lure recruits is that they can learn a skill that they can market to employers once they get out and into the private sector?   :wtf:



"When the flag goes up, if you aren't ready to deploy because we cut back on maintenance, training and other vital mission tasks, it takes TIME and EVEN MORE MONEY to restart that "machine." 

This is true if you are planning to fight a 20th century style war in the 21st century.   :crazy:

War in the 21st century is headed towards smart missiles, cyber attacks, and un-maned war machines, if you have not noticed.   :wacko:

The age of massed invasions and the flight of bomber in mass formations like what was done up till the Gulf War is history against a military peer today.


drck1000

Re: Time to Scale Back US Military Spending
« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2020, 08:30:04 PM »
Yup. Just go ahead and “transform the 7th fleet”... Go and make that demand of the 7th Fleet Commander and the Pacific Fleet Commander. I’ll give you the PACFLT Commander’s email and work phone. Hell, even his cell phone...   :rofl:

:facepalm:

From someone who knows nothing about military budgeting or appropriations. Wants installations that he “knows” are there shut down, without even knowing what function they serve. Whose irrational fear of military capability in Hawaii and Pacific and that they need to be cut, without knowing what they are.