Socialism is a complicated subject. I am no fan of socialism as a whole but it does exist in many different forms and I think its problematic to try and paint it with a single brush.

Do you think "free healthcare" is socialism? I find this an interesting related topic.

Socialism is a complicated subject. I am no fan of socialism as a whole but it does exist in many different forms and I think its problematic to try and paint it with a single brush.

Do you think "free healthcare" is socialism? I find this an interesting related topic.

Free healthcare is part of socialism.  But countries that went full on socialist, have not done well.  This also includes, food, jobs, transportation, etc...Most recently Venezuela is an example.  Their econ crumbled so bad that their cash was useless.  People were tossing it in the streets.  People tapped into underground water lines just to get water.

I talked to a few people from diff countries who have free healthcare.  And all said it sucks and prefer USA healthcare.

Free healthcare is part of socialism.  But countries that went full on socialist, have not done well.  This also includes, food, jobs, transportation, etc...Most recently Venezuela is an example.  Their econ crumbled so bad that their cash was useless.  People were tossing it in the streets.  People tapped into underground water lines just to get water.

I talked to a few people from diff countries who have free healthcare.  And all said it sucks and prefer USA healthcare.

There is no such thing as "free health care".
"I talked to a few people from diff countries who have free healthcare.  And all said it sucks and prefer USA healthcare."
I've had the same experience.
The problem with socialism is government.
We form governments to do things that individuals generally
can't do themselves. Mainly deal with foreign nations. Money
et al our constitution pretty well spells it out.
Government is supposed to serve it's people
not rule over them.

Socialists say jump and the people say how high?

Capitalists say jump and people say how much you going to
pay me to do that?  Why are YOU telling me to jump?
I don't think I want to jump.  I'm going to go buy a beer
and think about your order.

Hawaii is just about as Socialist as you can get
and still be in America.
It is a failed state.
Ige said Jump, most people obeyed.
He and the people that obeyed, destroyed the Hawaiian
tourist industry.

I'm taking the capitalist road.

Hawaii is just about as Socialist as you can get
and still be in America.
It is a failed state.
Ige said Jump, most people obeyed.
He and the people that obeyed, destroyed the Hawaiian
tourist industry.

I'm taking the capitalist road.

Wow, scary true. Fricken Kermmit.

Wow, scary true. Fricken Kermmit.

so the shutdown is socialist...

so the shutdown is socialist...

no, it's not. . . 

 

so the shutdown is socialist...

No work, & free money (Unemployment +$600 + $1,200 per adult + $500 per child)   
free food, (not quite bread lines but they're giving away food) 
free med (virus testing and treatment)
= Socialism Utopia 

FOR NOW      

Free healthcare is part of socialism.  But countries that went full on socialist, have not done well.  This also includes, food, jobs, transportation, etc...Most recently Venezuela is an example.  Their econ crumbled so bad that their cash was useless.  People were tossing it in the streets.  People tapped into underground water lines just to get water.

I talked to a few people from diff countries who have free healthcare.  And all said it sucks and prefer USA healthcare.

My wife is from Japan and she likes their system. Our kids have had to use healthcare while there as well. There are a few complaints I had though they are more cultural than an issue with the system itself.

The reason I made my comment is that I have noticed a repeated interesting exchange back and forth between conservatives and progressives on the subject. Goes something like this:
Conservative: Socialism is bad
Progressive: It isn't all bad, look at scandinavian countries
Conservative: Those aren't socialist countries, they are still free market economies.

Then the next question to me is if these countries aren't really socialist countries then doesn't that kind of deflate one of the biggest arguments by conservatives, that free health care is socialism and therefore bad? Personally this is one of the areas I do cross the aisle and I am in favor of at least a partially socialized health care system. (More specifics available upon request)

CAPITALISM
WORK or STARVE

SOCIALISM
WORK and STARVE

Sadly our country has move so far into Socialism, most people don't even recognize it. Or care. When welfare and unemployment pay better than working, what will people do? When people denigrate those who work hard and expect them to give up ("pay their fair share") what they have worked for, it's a problem.

Pay their fair share. The progressive socialists think that "the rich" should pay more and not have these "tax havens". Why shouldn't they? They worked for their money. It's the poor who don't pay their fair share. Your outrage offends me.... Think it's not true, just look at our progressive tax system. All things being equal - married with 2 kids and no house. When a person makes $100,000 and pays $30,000 in taxes but a person who makes $30,000 gets back $5,000, who paid the fair share? The guy who paid a 30% tax or the guy who got a %16 bonus at the end of the year. That doesn't include the perks of "being poor". Free cell phones, food stamps and programs, rent assistance....

The Soviets had a saying
"They pretend to pay us, we pretend to work"

My wife is from Japan and she likes their system. Our kids have had to use healthcare while there as well. There are a few complaints I had though one of them is more cultural than an issue with the system itself.

The reason I made my comment is that I have noticed a repeated interesting exchange back and forth between conservatives and progressives on the subject. Goes something like this:
Conservative: Socialism is bad
Progressive: It isn't all bad, look at scandinavian countries
Conservative: Those aren't socialist countries, they are still free market economies.

Then the next question to me is if these countries aren't really socialist countries then doesn't that kind of deflate one of the biggest arguments by conservatives, that free health care is socialism and therefore bad? Personally this is one of the areas I do cross the aisle and I am in favor of at least a partially socialized health care system. (More specifics available upon request)

Do you pay taxes to Japan?
Their overall tax rate is 55% of personal income.
American overall tax rate is 37% of personal income.
Granted this is a real rough number, as Japan taxes
are like American "progressive and confusing.

Are you willing to give Democrats control of your
medical system?
That is all that will get hired for Administrative positions.
We just watched what Democrat administrators
have done to the American economy and the health
system.
I'll take a pass.

Do you pay taxes to Japan?
Their overall tax rate is 55% of personal income.
American overall tax rate is 37% of personal income.
Granted this is a real rough number, as Japan taxes
are like American "progressive and confusing.

Are you willing to give Democrats control of your
medical system?
That is all that will get hired for Administrative positions.
We just watched what Democrat administrators
have done to the American economy and the health
system.
I'll take a pass.

Many people pay less than 37% as well.

CAPITALISM
WORK or STARVE

SOCIALISM
WORK and STARVE

Sadly our country has move so far into Socialism, most people don't even recognize it. Or care. When welfare and unemployment pay better than working, what will people do? When people denigrate those who work hard and expect them to give up ("pay their fair share") what they have worked for, it's a problem.

Pay their fair share. The progressive socialists think that "the rich" should pay more and not have these "tax havens". Why shouldn't they? They worked for their money. It's the poor who don't pay their fair share. Your outrage offends me.... Think it's not true, just look at our progressive tax system. All things being equal - married with 2 kids and no house. When a person makes $100,000 and pays $30,000 in taxes but a person who makes $30,000 gets back $5,000, who paid the fair share? The guy who paid a 30% tax or the guy who got a %16 bonus at the end of the year. That doesn't include the perks of "being poor". Free cell phones, food stamps and programs, rent assistance....

The Soviets had a saying
"They pretend to pay us, we pretend to work"

This is the beauty of socialism and brainwashing the people.  Get them to voluntarily do it/accept it.  How many are calling for the lockdown to extend even though people are hurting and need jobs/money?  Pretty much everyone on FB commenting about the free speech protest are calling them idiots and haoles. The virus has a 98-99% survival rate.

I had a friend ask how come so many haoles at the protest.  Told her maybe cause they're from another state and know their rights.  And Hawaii people are so indoctrinated, that they side with the government.

Pay their fair share. The progressive socialists think that "the rich" should pay more and not have these "tax havens". Why shouldn't they? They worked for their money. It's the poor who don't pay their fair share. Your outrage offends me.... Think it's not true, just look at our progressive tax system. All things being equal - married with 2 kids and no house. When a person makes $100,000 and pays $30,000 in taxes but a person who makes $30,000 gets back $5,000, who paid the fair share? The guy who paid a 30% tax or the guy who got a %16 bonus at the end of the year. That doesn't include the perks of "being poor". Free cell phones, food stamps and programs, rent assistance....

You are absolutely right; the US should stop charging income taxes or any other tax entirely.

By doing so, the US will definitely have a smaller government and stop providing for any ridiculous government services that the private sector could potentially better provide.

Let's see; no more education, no more social security, no more Medicare, no more welfare, no more IRS, NSA, FBI, CIA, and above all else no more military.

You are definitely a genius, as I look forward to living in the new America.

You are absolutely right; the US should stop charging income taxes or any other tax entirely.

By doing so, the US will definitely have a smaller government and stop providing for any ridiculous government services that the private sector could potentially better provide.

Let's see; no more education, no more social security, no more Medicare, no more welfare, no more IRS, NSA, FBI, CIA, and above all else no more military.

You are definitely a genius, as I look forward to living in the new America.

Sounds like what the founding fathers had intended.

Sounds like what the founding fathers had intended.

To be very honest, I agree with you, as the Founding Fathers envisioned a Republic and a citizenry that minds its own business and doesn't infringe on the rights of its people and neighboring nations.

Unfortunately, what the American people got today is an empire, like any other empire before it, that demands obedience from those at home and abroad.

America’s problem right now is not socialism but a mutant form of capitalism that sprung up in the Clinton era where billionaires and large corporations live consequence free while the rest of us can be pushed over the edge at any time and the safety nets are being cut. Socialism for the rich and austerity for everyone else. The problem is worse in liberal cities with a wealthy elite who think of themselves as unelected benevolent overlords who have the right to tweak public policy in their favor.

Bill Gates and common core is a perfect example. You do not need socialism to force bad ideas on everyone else, since any form of regulatory capture will do.

 

America’s problem right now is not socialism but a mutant form of capitalism that sprung up in the Clinton era where billionaires and large corporations live consequence free while the rest of us can be pushed over the edge at any time and the safety nets are being cut. Socialism for the rich and austerity for everyone else. The problem is worse in liberal cities with a wealthy elite who think of themselves as unelected benevolent overlords who have the right to tweak public policy in their favor.

Bill Gates and common core is a perfect example. You do not need socialism to force bad ideas on everyone else, since any form of regulatory capture will do.

Yes crony capitalism is the problem in America right now. It can only exist because of government regulation.

America’s problem right now is not socialism but a mutant form of capitalism that sprung up in the Clinton era where billionaires and large corporations live consequence free while the rest of us can be pushed over the edge at any time and the safety nets are being cut. Socialism for the rich and austerity for everyone else. The problem is worse in liberal cities with a wealthy elite who think of themselves as unelected benevolent overlords who have the right to tweak public policy in their favor.

Bill Gates and common core is a perfect example. You do not need socialism to force bad ideas on everyone else, since any form of regulatory capture will do.

I agree.

America 2020

Nation Type: Empire in Denial

Political Organization: Oligarchical Fascism / Fake Republic

Economic Ideology: Hybrid (Socialism for the rich, Debt-based/taxation serfdom for the middle classes, Welfare handouts for those under the poverty line)