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Face it Hawaii is a Socialist Banana Republic.
Polish the Honolulu Turd all you want,
but it is still a turd.
You have to ask permission
to do just about everything.
buy guns, buy food, go to church,
educate your children, travel,
et al.
Hawaii Democrat governments are going to fail
and I will do everything I can to kill them.
I'm sure most fellow Americans feel the same
about their Democrat governments across
our land right now.

You think some foreign guys wants to mess with
millions of Americans across our land
that hate their "own" people?

Socialism SUX!

Not following that from my post Grov but good rant.
Hope you never plan to collect socialist social security.

FAFSA economic assistance to college kids....Socialist.
Social Security...Socialist. Should have saved our own damn money and if it runs out it runs out.
EBT and assisted housing....Socialist.
Income tax for government services.....Socialist.
Federal Tax for government services...Socialist.
United States Postal Service....Socialist.
Federally funded Military.....Socialist.

Socialism in it’s academic form does suck.
But in todays’s modern society it’s infiltration is inevitable.

.

socialism works....we are in it right now.
We have a govt. that tells us when we can leave our homes, what we can leave our homes for, what we need to wear in public, what businesses and activities we can partake it based on their guidance. If anyone regardless of citizenship breaks these rules you will be arrested. All in the name of the "greater good" and under the veil of public safety.
And the population agrees with this.
Keep up the good work

Not Socialism.
Totalitarianism? Oligarchy?
Animal Farm?

You always seem to misquote people to frame them in your argument. What did I complain about in that post? No where did I say I'm a "fan" of any empire, nor did I imply an American one. What I see is a local government that is pandering to the irrational public fear to gain power and wealth. We voted these people in. We need to vote them out.
All this economic suffering is self-inflicted and exasperated by indecisiveness and political calculus. Instead of reassuring the people our leaders hold on to this cloud of fear to prolong this lockdown and hold the people hostage.
Socialism won't work but we see ourselves asking for more handouts while giving up our freedoms.

First of all, I am not entirely disagreeing with your conclusions, per se.

I am just pointing out the predicament the people of this nation is facing now is a direct result because the government is and has been ruling like an empire.  It is only now during the Covid-19 pandemic that more people can see how easy personal liberties are being suspended almost by imperial decree under the guise of public health.

Where I disagree with you is on your presumption that it is the people's fault that has brought what you perceive is socialism to the forefront.  In contrast, I have and continue to argue that the economic conditions that the US has and currently faces are a direct result of the fascist bi-party dictatorship that is running what is obviously the American empire, who ultimately serve the ultrawealthy.

How else can anyone explain how America's wealthiest got the lion share of the 6 Trillion, soon to be 9 Trillion dollar, Covid-19 bailout that the subjects of the American empire will have to pay back either in taxes or inflation for the next 100 years or so?

First of all, I am not entirely disagreeing with your conclusions, per se.

I am just pointing out the predicament the people of this nation is facing now is a direct result because the government is and has been ruling like an empire.  It is only now during the Covid-19 pandemic that more people can see how easy personal liberties are being suspended almost by imperial decree under the guise of public health.

Where I disagree with you is on your presumption that it is the people's fault that has brought what you perceive is socialism to the forefront.  In contrast, I have and continue to argue that the economic conditions that the US has and currently faces are a direct result of the fascist bi-party dictatorship that is running what is obviously the American empire, who ultimately serve the ultrawealthy.

How else can anyone explain how America's wealthiest got the lion share of the 6 Trillion, soon to be 9 Trillion dollar, Covid-19 bailout that the subjects of the American empire will have to pay back either in taxes or inflation for the next 100 years or so?

I don’t disagree with you entirely, but....
Sounds a lot like Pre-1850 Hawaii.
Pre-overthrow.
Wasn’t Kamehameha I an imperialist and established an empire ?  (Conquered all the islands which were previously independently ruled.)
Banishment of Kapu System under Kamehameha family empire rule.
Great Mahele benefitting the wealthiest Hawaii citizens and the Monarchy. (The result of fascist bi-Party dictatorship. Parties being the Monarchy and the ultra-wealthy.)

Wasn’t Kamehameha I an imperialist and established an empire ?  (Conquered all the islands which were previously independently ruled.)

He united the various kingdoms in Hawaiian chain to establish a united Kingdom of Hawaii.  It is often said that he wanted to unite the islands to fulfill some type of prophecy and to probably satisfy his ego as well.  From an international standpoint, he probably saw the advantages of establishing a united Kingdom in order to deal with the many imperial powers of his day: the British, French, Russians, and later after his death, the Americans.

Hence, he did unify the islands into one political entity, but not necessarily in the same vein as the imperial European powers.

Banishment of Kapu System under Kamehameha family empire rule.

Definitely the ending of the Kapu system was orchestrated by Kaahumanu and implemented by Kamehameha II.  Whether good, bad, or indifferent, it was the first major step in modernizing Hawaii to the early 19th century.

Great Mahele benefitting the wealthiest Hawaii citizens and the Monarchy. (The result of fascist bi-Party dictatorship. Parties being the Monarchy and the ultra-wealthy.)

The Great Mahele was not undertaken to solely benefit the monarchy and wealthy Haole during Kamehameha III.  I would suggest you to view the research of Donovan Preza, perhaps the most knowledgeable authority on this topic.  He has many articles and You Tube videos on this subject.  Many people and Hawaiians alike have been mistaken on their understanding of the Great Mahele, and Preza's work is seminal.

... Many people and Hawaiians alike have been mistaken on their understanding of the Great Mahele, and Preza's work is seminal.

That explains a lot.   

That explains a lot.   

"Many people and Hawaiians"
I always thought Hawaiians were people, but they aren't, they are;
The mō’ī (king) and his ali’i nui (high chiefs) that controlled the land while the konohiki (lesser chiefs) managed it. The maka’āinana lived on and cared for the land. In return they gave the ali’i nui their service and a portion of what they produced.

Sounds pretty Feudal to me.
Our words would be King, Dukes, Barons, and Serfs.
We all know what happened to that system.
Socialists just killed or neutered the kings and kept everything else in place.

"Many people and Hawaiians"
I always thought Hawaiians were people, but they aren't, they are;
The mō’ī (king) and his ali’i nui (high chiefs) that controlled the land while the konohiki (lesser chiefs) managed it. The maka’āinana lived on and cared for the land. In return they gave the ali’i nui their service and a portion of what they produced.

Sounds pretty Feudal to me.
Our words would be King, Dukes, Barons, and Serfs.
We all know what happened to that system.
Socialists just killed or neutered the kings and kept everything else in place.

so socialism worked in those times.

so socialism worked in those times.

It was a very hard life, if you were not a chief or kahuna, prior to the Kingdom era.  However, that form of Polynesian feudalism/socialism/communism was the predominant societal form and did manage to maintain the social/economic/environmental balance on those islands.

That all changed, of course, during the Kingdom era, where the Hawaiian monarchy tried its best to modernize to the 19th century and maintain its sovereignty, despite the ongoing imperialism by the Western powers.

So let me get this straight:

Socialism can work in a Totalitarian/ Oligarchical system.
As the ancient Hawaiians proved for presumably hundreds of years.

But when you try to “modernize”, by using the imperialistic system, then other Imperialistic systems move in.
As they give away land to the “invaders” voluntarily and inter-marry “invader” money/land with Royalty.
(Bishop, Cooke, Castle, Damon, Campbell...none of them Hawaiian names)
Sometimes under the guise of Religion.

The indigenous imperialstic/empire model then fails.
And the invading Imperialistic model just needs to introduce enough Socialism to keep the people sedated.

Did I get it?

Not following that from my post Grov but good rant.
Hope you never plan to collect socialist social security.

FAFSA economic assistance to college kids....Socialist.
Social Security...Socialist. Should have saved our own damn money and if it runs out it runs out.
EBT and assisted housing....Socialist.
Income tax for government services.....Socialist.
Federal Tax for government services...Socialist.
United States Postal Service....Socialist.
Federally funded Military.....Socialist.

Socialism in it’s academic form does suck.
But in todays’s modern society it’s infiltration is inevitable.

.
Not Socialism.
Totalitarianism? Oligarchy?
Animal Farm?

And don't forget ambulances, public schools, fire departments, police departments, parks, beach parks, and the public gun range! All those pesky socialist programs. I am sure you just accidentally left those off your list.

And for the most part the USPS makes its own money, it isn't a full government funded program like others on the list.

Socialism can work in a Totalitarian/ Oligarchical system.
As the ancient Hawaiians proved for presumably hundreds of years.

Very true.

Socialism and its derivatives as an economic system can be applied and practiced in any type of governing hierarchy, be it an empire, kingdom, dictatorship, republic, and/or democracy.

But when you try to “modernize”, by using the imperialistic system, then other Imperialistic systems move in.
As they give away land to the “invaders” voluntarily and inter-marry “invader” money/land with Royalty.
(Bishop, Cooke, Castle, Damon, Campbell...none of them Hawaiian names)
Sometimes under the guise of Religion.

It is entirely possible and most likely for any nation trying to modernize to the standards set forth by the prevailing empires of the day to be either heavily influenced, made a vassal/colony, or illegally taken over by those empires.

The indigenous imperialstic/empire model then fails.
And the invading Imperialistic model just needs to introduce enough Socialism to keep the people sedated.

No different with the current American empire, it will fail (maybe much sooner than most Americans think) and the power structure of the subject nation will either maintain the existing political/economic system, make modifications, start something new, or revert back to its original form.

Wow.. I always thought that the old Hawaii was a monarchy.  You know, with Kings, queens, princes and princesses. 

I had no idea it was a socialist / communist regime. Who’d a thunk.

And don't forget ambulances, public schools, fire departments, police departments, parks, beach parks, and the public gun range! All those pesky socialist programs. I am sure you just accidentally left those off your list.

And for the most part the USPS makes its own money, it isn't a full government funded program like others on the list.

Public services are not socialism.  You believe the memes, huh?

SERVICES that are funded by tax payers are NOT socialism for one simple reason -- they are not designed to contribute to the economy.  They are designed to provide services that are justified by the reasoning that the private sector can't reasonably do the same as well -- more often than not because there would be no profit in it.

The Constitution mandates that the US federal government fund a military as well as a postal service.  By definition, that can't be Socialist since the mandate was ratified by the individual states and codified as law.  These are services deemed fundamentally critical to the good of everyone, not a means for taking taxes only from the wealthy and providing services only to the needy.

Profit redistribution -- that's the main point when defining Socialism.  Socialists take profits and distribute them to those they think NEED it.  Whereas Capitalists give profits to those who earned it -- through investment (taking financial risks) or contributions of talent and effort.

The government never makes a profit in anything it does.  Why would they?  Congress will increase the budget if needed by raising taxes or fees.

"Big Government" is not the hallmark of Communism/Socialism.  in fact, a good number of the services you named are privatized and only funded by government, such as building roads and highways, private schools and colleges that get government funding, and even police departments who contract out support positions.

Both public and private schools receive title funds, which is money allocated through a government program
designed to give additional funds for low-income families. The average amount spent by schools on students
is about $12,000.

https://study.com/academy/lesson/how-are-schools-funded.html

Socialism is about taking private property and converting it to government ownership/control, so that the government can decide what to produce -- i.e. what's needed.  Taxes are not "private property."  They are revenue -- funds we allow our elected representatives to decide on how it's best spent.  As voters, we have the ability to stop electing people who waste our taxes on bad programs we don't agree with.  Socialism revolves around a centralized body that decides for us with no fear of losing their office over unpopular decisions.

^
I guess that concludes that there is no Socialism in Hawaii and that Hawaii is not Socialist.

So what’s a Democratic Socialist?

Wow.. I always thought that the old Hawaii was a monarchy.  You know, with Kings, queens, princes and princesses. 
I had no idea it was a socialist / communist regime. Who’d a thunk.

Historically, Same model. Different names.
Difference as I see it is in one people were force fed. In the other, they initially drank the kool-aid.
Ended up in the same boat.

^
I guess that concludes that there is no Socialism in Hawaii and that Hawaii is not Socialist.

So what’s a Democratic Socialist?


Historically, Same model. Different names.
Difference as I see it is in one people were force fed. In the other, they initially drank the kool-aid.
Ended up in the same boat.

There are a variety of Socialism models.  Didn't we have a thread on what is "pure socialism" not that long ago?

I guess that concludes that there is no Socialism in Hawaii and that Hawaii is not Socialist.

There are a number of socialist aspects that can be seen in the laws in Hawaii; but make no mistake, Hawaii is still predominately oligarchic in power structure similar to the Republican dominated Big-Five era and fascist in economic ideology, as evidenced by the state government's constant unsustainable spending on construction projects, in defiance of the wishes of its taxed out citizenry. 

So what’s a Democratic Socialist?

That deserves its own thread because there are many aspects and forms of it in practice today.

I got my socialism check from trump yesterday!

I got my socialism check from trump yesterday!

See, certain aspects of socialism ain't that bad.   

I know you don't own any firearms or ammunition, but now you can finally buy your first firearm and box of ammo.   

There are a variety of Socialism models.  Didn't we have a thread on what is "pure socialism" not that long ago?

That was exactly my point. 

Also there are Socialism aspects included in various models.

I got my socialism check from trump yesterday!

Love that Socialist check from Trump.

See, certain aspects of socialism ain't that bad.   

nope, I see all this money printing as a sure sign of inflation once the fed stops pumping up the stock market...