George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police (Read 51184 times)

Kuleana

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2020, 10:38:00 PM »
You're delisional.

If there are bad Cops, the leadership needs to weed them out and discipline those who break the law.

If the leadership isn't doing that, replace the leaders.

If the gov't isn't doing that, replace the people in gov't.

The remedies are no different than any large private company.


The problem with your counterargument is that police brutality has been going on for years, despite the change of political administration throughout the decades.  The fact is police brutality has not gone away, hence, how can one not make a characterization of the said institution.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2020, 11:48:16 PM »
The problem with your counterargument is that police brutality has been going on for years, despite the change of political administration throughout the decades.  The fact is police brutality has not gone away, hence, how can one not make a characterization of the said institution.

Years?  Have you ever read history?  I seem to remember reading the Romans were particularly brutal -- in one particular case against an innocent person from Galilee.  Again before that, killing every male child born to each family.  That supposedly happened several times at key points in history.  The English, French, Spanish, you name it.  Every government has enforced its laws with sometimes the most vicious and unjust means and motives imaginable.  This is not a recent US-created development.

This is a nation of over 325 million people.  We have 50 states, 5 major territories, 3,007 counties, and 19,495 incorporated cities, towns and villages.

The federal government has it's own separate and unique law enforcement jurisdictions.

Are you trying to argue with that many people under so many local, state and federal jurisdictions, you expect there to be a "political administration" with the solution for corruption, "brutality", and  every other bad action perpetrated by government, law enforcement, organized crime and so on at every level from top to bottom?

If you have the answers, please tell the rest of the country.  I don't know why the hell you've been waiting so long to share it!

The phrase, "Power corrupts" has been proven time and again.  How do you propose to take the human condition out of law enforcement without introducing complete anarchy?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

spicynoodle_1

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #82 on: May 31, 2020, 06:21:13 AM »
Yes, no one should be judged by the actions of others.  However, when dealing with police, who are employed for the people, armed to uphold the law, and given the public trust; they have to be universally measured and held to the highest standards, unlike private citizens.

One or even a few cases of police brutality nationally is already unacceptable, but when such cases of brutality or unjustified shootings occur frequently every month, year after year, and in different parts of the country, you have a serious systemic problem and, hence, it is not unfair to make sweeping characterizations for the said institution.

You're unbelievable. Yes it is unfair. These are acts of individuals that do not reflect the views of the entirety of Law Enforcement. You just said that they are to be held to higher standards. The overwhelming majority hold that high standard when they serve you everyday. Yet you refuse to acknowledge their daily sacrifice by saying that they are no better than the ones that commit these disgusting acts of brutality.

I, personally, would hate to be categorized and looked at in the same light as someone who thinks and speaks like yourself.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 06:29:45 AM by spicynoodle_1 »

Jl808

George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2020, 08:18:13 AM »
https://w24n.com/minneapolis-police-officer-who-killed-george-floyd-derek-chauvin-commits-suicide-in-prison-cell/

Chauvin commits suicide in prison.

Surprised that there isn’t more news about this.

The MSM probably wants the organized riots to continue further to use against Trump later.
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

robtmc

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2020, 08:20:52 AM »
Well, the cop would not have lasted long in prison, anyway.

macsak

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #85 on: May 31, 2020, 08:49:28 AM »
https://w24n.com/minneapolis-police-officer-who-killed-george-floyd-derek-chauvin-commits-suicide-in-prison-cell/

Chauvin commits suicide in prison.

Surprised that there isn’t more news about this.

The MSM probably wants the organized riots to continue further to use against Trump later.

"suicide"

Kuleana

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #86 on: May 31, 2020, 08:50:10 AM »
You're unbelievable. Yes it is unfair. These are acts of individuals that do not reflect the views of the entirety of Law Enforcement. You just said that they are to be held to higher standards. The overwhelming majority hold that high standard when they serve you everyday. Yet you refuse to acknowledge their daily sacrifice by saying that they are no better than the ones that commit these disgusting acts of brutality.

I, personally, would hate to be categorized and looked at in the same light as someone who thinks and speaks like yourself.

I understand your stance.

However, put it this way, if what you say is true and that most cops are nice, why did the other three cops not stop the now deceased Chauvin during the 8 minutes or so when he was depriving Floyd for air?  They saw what was happening and heard Floyd's cries for mercy as well as the concerns of passers-by.

THEY DID NOTHING TO STOP ONE OF THEIR OWN, WHEN THEY KNEW THEY SHOULD OF HAVE.

This is why myself and many other people who are protesting make the blanket characterization of police that we do.

groveler

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #87 on: May 31, 2020, 08:50:37 AM »
https://w24n.com/minneapolis-police-officer-who-killed-george-floyd-derek-chauvin-commits-suicide-in-prison-cell/

Chauvin commits suicide in prison.

Surprised that there isn’t more news about this.

The MSM probably wants the organized riots to continue further to use against Trump later.
I try to cross check everything, as I was trained to do.
I cannot find confirmation.
I did find that the guy was on suicide check.

Bota-CS1

No one is coming, it’s up to us.

Legislation should never be about depriving law abiding citizens of something, but rather taking those things away from criminals.

Jl808

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #89 on: May 31, 2020, 10:07:11 AM »
I tried to find confirmation from that news also and could not find any.

- fake news?
- "suicided" to protect him?
- offed in prison?
- really offed himself?
- had something on the clintons?
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #90 on: May 31, 2020, 11:43:50 AM »
FAKE NEWS: Reports that Derek Chauvin Committed Suicide Are False

Quote
Reports circulating that Chauvin [has committed] suicide are completely false.

One site goes so far to quote a source saying “On Sunday, John Harrington, commissioner of the
Minnesota Department of Public Safety, announced that Chauvin committed suicide after his arrest
in his Minnesota jail cell” but VeltNews has confirmed that report is completely fictitious.

https://veltnews.com/fake-news-reports-that-derek-chauvin-commit-suicide-is-false/
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Jl808

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #91 on: May 31, 2020, 12:44:07 PM »
Thanks for the correction!
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #92 on: May 31, 2020, 02:01:07 PM »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

spicynoodle_1

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #93 on: May 31, 2020, 02:55:56 PM »
I understand your stance.

However, put it this way, if what you say is true and that most cops are nice, why did the other three cops not stop the now deceased Chauvin during the 8 minutes or so when he was depriving Floyd for air?  They saw what was happening and heard Floyd's cries for mercy as well as the concerns of passers-by.

THEY DID NOTHING TO STOP ONE OF THEIR OWN, WHEN THEY KNEW THEY SHOULD OF HAVE.

This is why myself and many other people who are protesting make the blanket characterization of police that we do.

Your argument is getting weaker. You keep trying to make the same point by grouping a few in to represent the whole. You can have those four and how many other cops have acted in this manner. In fact, you can take all the cops that ever committed any crime in uniform, and I'll take the vast majority of honorable officers that have held to the oath they took the day they got their badge, and it will pale in comparison. And you'll still call those real heroes fascist and despicable or what ever big word you try to use to make your argument sound cool. Bottom line is no matter how disrespectful you are, they still have a obligation to serve your ungrateful behind, and they'll do it with a smile...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 03:05:58 PM by spicynoodle_1 »

Kuleana

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #94 on: May 31, 2020, 03:32:15 PM »
Your argument is getting weaker.

My argument can't be that weak, if thousands of Americans are rallying and protesting because of the same argument.




You keep trying to make the same point by grouping a few in to represent the whole. You can have those four and how many other cops have acted in this manner. In fact, you can take all the cops that ever committed any crime in uniform, and I'll take the vast majority of honorable officers that have held to the oath they took the day they got their badge, and it will pale in comparison. And you'll still call those real heroes fascist and despicable or what ever big word you try to use to make your argument sound cool.

They are predominately all bad cops because can you honestly say all of those so-called "good cops" you referenced will snitch on one of their own?

I await your answer to this question.




Bottom line is no matter how disrespectful you are, they still have a obligation to serve your ungrateful behind, and they'll do it with a smile...

Are you saying, that they are doing the people they serve a favor?

If they can't handle the ongoing scrutiny of the populace relating to incidents of police brutality, they should not be cops.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #95 on: May 31, 2020, 04:07:54 PM »
My argument can't be that weak, if thousands of Americans are rallying and protesting because of the same argument.


Your logical fallacy is:

BANDWAGON

Quote
You appealed to popularity or the fact that many people do something as an attempted form of validation.
The flaw in this argument is that the popularity of an idea has absolutely no bearing on its validity.
If it did, then the Earth would have made itself flat for most of history to accommodate this popular belief.

Example: Shamus pointed a drunken finger at Sean and asked him to explain how so many people could
believe in leprechauns if they're only a silly old superstition. Sean, however, had had a few too many Guinness
himself and fell off his chair.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

By your logic, if more people believe the Hawaiin Islands are a legal and properly annexed state of the US, then there is no reason for you to believe otherwise.  Majority rule.




Are you saying, that they are doing the people they serve a favor?

If they can't handle the ongoing scrutiny of the populace relating to incidents of police brutality, they should not be cops.


Maybe it's a self-licking ice cream cone.  People see a few bad Cops, they (like you) now treat all Cops as evil fascists. 

The Cops get tired of being treated like pariah by everyone they meet. so some take it out on perps. 

Doing a job for Cop pay, risking their lives, and dealing with the people who don't just disrespect -- but HATE -- them, how would you find worthy recruits?

How would you like to be characterized as stupid, lazy and uncivilized just because a few Hawaiians act that way? (Hypothetically, of course)
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

spicynoodle_1

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #96 on: May 31, 2020, 04:56:27 PM »
My argument can't be that weak, if thousands of Americans are rallying and protesting because of the same argument.




They are predominately all bad cops because can you honestly say all of those so-called "good cops" you referenced will snitch on one of their own?

I await your answer to this question.




Are you saying, that they are doing the people they serve a favor?

If they can't handle the ongoing scrutiny of the populace relating to incidents of police brutality, they should not be cops.

Just because thousands are following suit doesnt make your argument strong, it needs justification. Are you serious?!?!?!? Their reason for burning other peoples property and harming others physically when they try to protect themselves and their property is completely unrelated to these riot victims! None of them had anything to do with George Floyd! Your justification for your argument is 'thousands are doing it'... sad

The good officers that I speak of do not condone the acts that these officers in question have committed. Some openly on several social media outlets speak out openly. And yes, the ones I know personal would speak their mind if they saw or experienced something immoral. No snitching ah! I think you watching too many movies!

As for their service being favors. It would be you to talk about something virtuous in a negative way. I assume you would not be willing to put your life on the line every day for people you dont know. You seem like the cowardly keyboard king that puffs chest in cyber world. But these men and women on the other hand are doing that every day. And dont ask anything in return from the people they serve. Not a favor at all. Through their eyes its viewed as duty. They do it willingly...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 05:12:06 PM by spicynoodle_1 »

ren

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #97 on: May 31, 2020, 05:01:36 PM »

Death to the current American empire!

Long live the Kingdom of Hawaii AND the American Republic!

this is the foundation for all your arguments. The underlying reason why you call all police fascists. You have no faith in the People of America. There are good people who are police officers. All you care for is what is above in that quote. You're the person who brings a gallon of gas to a house fire.
Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #98 on: May 31, 2020, 05:13:39 PM »
this is the foundation for all your arguments. The underlying reason why you call all police fascists. You have no faith in the People of America. There are good people who are police officers. All you care for is what is above in that quote. You're the person who brings a gallon of gas to a house fire.

Getting old.

Personal attacks, as usual.

Kuleana

Re: George Floyd - black man dies under custody of Minneapolis police
« Reply #99 on: May 31, 2020, 05:24:02 PM »
People see a few bad Cops, they (like you) now treat all Cops as evil fascists. 

How do you know all cops are good?

If the murderer Chauvin had a number of reprimands and yet was not kicked out of his precinct, how many more Chauvins are there that have not been kicked out of their own respective outfits and are just waiting to do the same?

What guarantees are there that anybody else won't be the next Floyd?




The Cops get tired of being treated like pariah by everyone they meet. so some take it out on perps. 

Doing a job for Cop pay, risking their lives, and dealing with the people who don't just disrespect -- but HATE -- them, how would you find worthy recruits?

Maybe if police departments begin to rat out bad cops and make such instances nationally known would be a start to regain the public trust.




How would you like to be characterized as stupid, lazy and uncivilized just because a few Hawaiians act that way? (Hypothetically, of course)

No, I would not like that, but Hawaiians are already stereotyped that way locally.